Hi all,
The main reason is that the *Apache mail server has been used and caused a
bounce attack on the QQ mailbox*.
Detailed description: The third parties forged the domain name of the QQ
mailbox to send spam to the Apache mail server. The Apache mail server does
not make a correct check and mistakenly thought that the spammers were from
QQ mailbox instead of third parties, so that these spam emails were
returned back to the QQ mail server, and a large number of bouncers to the
QQ mailbox server caused a bounce attack. Therefore, the anti-spam system
of QQ mailbox automatically applies the interception strategy. Besides
bounce emails, some normal emails are also blocked.
At present, QQ mailbox temporarily uses a more relaxed anti-spam strategy
for the Apache mail server. However, if QQ mail server continues to receive
a large number of bounce emails, it will also take effective interception
measures. In the history of QQ mailbox, not all emails from the Apache mail
server will be intercepted, most of the rejections are part of the bounce
attack.
So if someone reports that they can't receive the email from Apache mail
server, they can provide more detailed information to the QQ mailbox to
facilitate the location problem.
The attached file contains a sample of spam that was rejected and returned
to the QQ mailbox.
Best,
Vino
vino yang <yanghua1...@gmail.com> 于2019年6月21日周五 上午10:16写道：
> Hi Robert,
>
> Yes, QQ mail product belongs to Tencent and I work at Tencent.
>
> I am contacting QQ mail team and trying to know the reason. Once I get the
> reply and explanation. I will sync here.
>
> Best,
> Vino.
>
> Robert Metzger <rmetz...@apache.org> 于2019年6月20日周四 下午10:59写道：
>
>> Thanks a lot!
>>
>> qq.com belongs to Tencent, right?
>> As far as I know, we have some active contributors working at Tencent
>> (Vino
>> Yang). Maybe he or other employees from Tencent following this mailing
>> list, could help to make a connection to the QQ teams to resolve that
>> problem?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 4:43 PM Kurt Young <ykt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > From INFRA's response: "Yes, they aggressively rate limit us, and all
>> our
>> > efforts to contact them have gone unanswered. We recommend people use
>> other
>> > providers."
>> >
>> > I think the only way is tell user not to use qq.com mails when using
>> > apache
>> > mailing list.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > Kurt
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 10:23 PM Kurt Young <ykt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Thanks Robert, I left a comment in the JIRA you gave and see what will
>> > > happen.
>> > >
>> > > Best,
>> > > Kurt
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 9:04 PM Robert Metzger <rmetz...@apache.org>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Thank you all for working on this!
>> > >>
>> > >> +1 on conducting a survey!
>> > >>
>> > >> @Kurt: Yes, you can just file a JIRA ticket with INFRA (see a similar
>> > >> example, also mentioning qq.com:
>> > >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18249)
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 6:23 AM Kurt Young <ykt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> > Is there any chance that we can contact Apache infra team to find
>> out
>> > >> why
>> > >> > apache mails are blocked by qq.com?
>> > >> > QQ mails are very popular in Chinese.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Best,
>> > >> > Kurt
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 12:01 PM Hequn Cheng <chenghe...@gmail.com
>> >
>> > >> wrote:
>> > >> >
>> > >> > > Hi Gordon,
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Thanks a lot for providing the valuable information!
>> > >> > > As I carry out the survey about the mailing list, a lot of people
>> > >> told me
>> > >> > > that they just can't subscribe to the mailing list normally. I
>> think
>> > >> your
>> > >> > > information gives a good answer!
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > - User subscribes `user-zh@ address` instead of
>> `user-zh-subscribe@
>> > `.
>> > >> > > The guidance in the Dingtalk group does tell users to subscribe
>> > using
>> > >> > > `user-zh-subscribe@`. However, I think we can also emphasize
>> more
>> > >> about
>> > >> > it
>> > >> > > not to subscribe using `user-zh@ address`.
>> > >> > > Furthermore, could we also add some meaningful reply to the
>> users if
>> > >> they
>> > >> > > send email to `user-zh@` without subscribing `user-zh-subscribe@
>> `?
>> > >> This
>> > >> > > may
>> > >> > > also be a problem for the non-Chinese speaking mailing list.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > - Network problem.
>> > >> > > This is true that some network is blocked in China. Just now, I
>> told
>> > >> one
>> > >> > > guy to switch from qq email to Gmail. The result shows everything
>> > >> becomes
>> > >> > > normal. It seems we can do nothing about it. The only thing we
>> can
>> > do
>> > >> is
>> > >> > > try to sync this information to our users and tell them to use
>> Gmail
>> > >> in
>> > >> > > preference to qq.com, etc.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > BTW, I will post the result of the survey here on Friday this
>> week.
>> > I
>> > >> > want
>> > >> > > to let more people join in the survey.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Best, Hequn
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 10:47 AM Tzu-Li (Gordon) Tai <
>> > >> > tzuli...@apache.org>
>> > >> > > wrote:
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > > Hi all,
>> > >> > > >
>> > >> > > > Just a few observations from the MODERATE emails I receive as a
>> > >> > moderator
>> > >> > > > of the user-zh@ mailing list:
>> > >> > > >
>> > >> > > > - About at least once every day, there would be someone trying
>> to
>> > >> > > > incorrectly subscribe to user-zh@ via the user-zh@ address,
>> and
>> > not
>> > >> > > > user-zh-subscribe@. Maybe there is something better we can do
>> in
>> > >> > > > instructing users of the DingTalk group the procedures in
>> > >> subscribing
>> > >> > to
>> > >> > > > the Apache mailing list.
>> > >> > > >
>> > >> > > > - It seems like the email respond bot can't reach some email
>> > >> domains,
>> > >> > for
>> > >> > > > example '@qq.com'. There may be more that are being blocked.
>> This
>> > >> > would
>> > >> > > > block some users from correctly subscribing to the mailing list
>> > >> since
>> > >> > > they
>> > >> > > > can't complete the subscribe process.
>> > >> > > > I don't think they'll be able to receive normal user email
>> > >> > conversations
>> > >> > > > from the mailing list either.
>> > >> > > >
>> > >> > > > Best,
>> > >> > > > Gordon
>> > >> > > >
>> > >> > > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 11:39 AM Jark Wu <imj...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > >> > > >
>> > >> > > > > >> We did guide users to use mailing list to ask questions,
>> but
>> > >> > people
>> > >> > > > > still prefer DingTalk. We can continue to remind users to use
>> > >> mailing
>> > >> > > > list
>> > >> > > > > frequently.
>> > >> > > > > > Do we know why that's the case? Do we need to educate
>> people
>> > >> more
>> > >> > on
>> > >> > > > > mailing lists?
>> > >> > > > > - Because it's easy and fast as Bowen and Hequn said. Several
>> > >> times,
>> > >> > > when
>> > >> > > > > someone asked questions in group, I told them please use
>> user-zh
>> > >> ML.
>> > >> > > > > But they said "OK, I will post it in user-zh. But could you
>> help
>> > >> > answer
>> > >> > > > the
>> > >> > > > > question first? I'm in a hurry." Then I had to answer the
>> > >> question in
>> > >> > > > group
>> > >> > > > > again.
>> > >> > > > > - Another reason is the number of people in Dingtalk group is
>> > >> growing
>> > >> > > too
>> > >> > > > > fast to educate everyone to use ML. The number grows from
>> 5,000
>> > >> to
>> > >> > > > 10,000
>> > >> > > > > in the past months.
>> > >> > > > >
>> > >> > > > > >> 4. The apache archive [1] for user-zh doesn't support
>> > >> searching.
>> > >> > We
>> > >> > > > can
>> > >> > > > > provide a nabble service for user-zh which supports searching
>> > >> itself.
>> > >> > > > > > Great idea! Do you want to set it up?
>> > >> > > > > - Sure, I have setup a nabble service and here is the link:
>> > >> > > > > http://apache-flink.147419.n8.nabble.com/
>> > >> > > > > It should work now and thank @Gordon for the help.
>> > >> > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > What is the primary search engine for technology-related
>> > >> > information?
>> > >> > > > > - I think the primary search engine in China is still Baidu
>> for
>> > >> most
>> > >> > > > > technicians. So we still need a way to improve SEO.
>> > >> > > > > Maybe the Flink China operation team have some experience
>> on
>> > >> this.
>> > >> > > > >
>> > >> > > > > A big +1 to Hequn's survey proposal. It's a good way to have
>> a
>> > >> better
>> > >> > > > > understanding about what's the root reason, what do users
>> need.
>> > >> > > > >
>> > >> > > > > Best,
>> > >> > > > > Jark
>> > >> > > > >
>> > >> > > > >
>> > >> > > > > On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 at 18:11, Hequn Cheng <
>> chenghe...@gmail.com
>> > >
>> > >> > > wrote:
>> > >> > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > Hi,
>> > >> > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > Thank Robert for raising the discussion. Thank Bowen and
>> Jark
>> > >> for
>> > >> > > your
>> > >> > > > > nice
>> > >> > > > > > thoughts.
>> > >> > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > The DingTalk group grows bigger and bigger. I think the
>> reason
>> > >> is
>> > >> > > that
>> > >> > > > a
>> > >> > > > > > lot of problems are solved quickly in the group. There are
>> a
>> > >> lot of
>> > >> > > > > people
>> > >> > > > > > who are willing to answer questions in the DingTalk group.
>> > Even
>> > >> > > though,
>> > >> > > > > for
>> > >> > > > > > some complicated problems, they often not well be solved in
>> > the
>> > >> > > > DingTalk
>> > >> > > > > > group. These problems are often ignored and lost in the
>> group.
>> > >> For
>> > >> > > > these
>> > >> > > > > > problems, using the mailing list is a good choice.
>> > >> > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > There may be many reasons why mailing lists are becoming
>> > >> ruined. In
>> > >> > > > > > addition to some of the reasons mentioned by Bowen and
>> Jark, I
>> > >> > think
>> > >> > > we
>> > >> > > > > can
>> > >> > > > > > initiate a survey to see the actual feedbacks from users,
>> such
>> > >> as:
>> > >> > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > 1. The problems can be solved in the DingTalk, it is more
>> > >> > convenient
>> > >> > > > and
>> > >> > > > > > fast.
>> > >> > > > > > 2. I don't even know there is a chinese user mailing list.
>> > >> > > > > > 3. I don't know how to use the chinese user mailing list.
>> > >> > > > > > 4. Problems are not be answered in the chinese user mailing
>> > list
>> > >> > > > > > 5. Problems are not well be answered in the chinese user
>> > mailing
>> > >> > list
>> > >> > > > > > 6. I prefer using the English user mailing list.
>> > >> > > > > > 7. other reasons.
>> > >> > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > I will follow this survey and then update it here.
>> > >> > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > Best, Hequn
>> > >> > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 12:09 PM Bowen Li <
>> > bowenl...@gmail.com>
>> > >> > > wrote:
>> > >> > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > I want to first clarify that I think Flink China
>> operation
>> > >> team
>> > >> > has
>> > >> > > > > done
>> > >> > > > > > a
>> > >> > > > > > > PHENOMENAL job to grow user base in China! This
>> discussion
>> > is
>> > >> not
>> > >> > > > about
>> > >> > > > > > > discrediting anyone. The problem occurs as more of a high
>> > >> growth
>> > >> > > pain
>> > >> > > > > > IMHO.
>> > >> > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > >> We did guide users to use mailing list to ask
>> questions,
>> > >> but
>> > >> > > > > > > people still prefer DingTalk. We can continue to remind
>> > users
>> > >> to
>> > >> > > use
>> > >> > > > > > > mailing list frequently.
>> > >> > > > > > > > Do we know why that's the case? Do we need to educate
>> > people
>> > >> > more
>> > >> > > > on
>> > >> > > > > > > mailing lists?
>> > >> > > > > > > - They "prefer" it possibly because it's easy and fast
>> with
>> > >> lower
>> > >> > > > cost
>> > >> > > > > > than
>> > >> > > > > > > emailing. If we have a worldwide Slack channel, it'll be
>> the
>> > >> case
>> > >> > > > too.
>> > >> > > > > > The
>> > >> > > > > > > quality of communication and question also goes down
>> with it
>> > >> > > though.
>> > >> > > > > > When I
>> > >> > > > > > > last looked at it months ago, maybe 70+% questions were
>> > >> > typically a
>> > >> > > > log
>> > >> > > > > > > screenshot followed up "has anyone seen this before?".
>> Many
>> > of
>> > >> > them
>> > >> > > > > never
>> > >> > > > > > > got answered and just got buried by others. Situations
>> may
>> > >> have
>> > >> > > > changed
>> > >> > > > > > > now, I'm sure.
>> > >> > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > Ideally, we find a way to help the community grow AND
>> > follow
>> > >> > good
>> > >> > > > > > apache
>> > >> > > > > > > practices.
>> > >> > > > > > > - Absolutely. I think, specially, "we" means "include and
>> > with
>> > >> > > Flink
>> > >> > > > > > China
>> > >> > > > > > > operation team".
>> > >> > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > I think maybe the root cause of the original question on
>> > >> > user-zh's
>> > >> > > > low
>> > >> > > > > > > activity is that, we failed counting Flink China
>> operation
>> > >> team
>> > >> > as
>> > >> > > > part
>> > >> > > > > > of
>> > >> > > > > > > our community, and thus didn't get aligned well enough on
>> > >> ideas
>> > >> > and
>> > >> > > > > > > execution. E.g. when voting for user-zh, people voted +1
>> are
>> > >> all
>> > >> > > > > **devs**
>> > >> > > > > > > who possibly had default expectations that it's gonna be
>> the
>> > >> main
>> > >> > > > > > question
>> > >> > > > > > > channel. I didn't see **any people from our operation
>> team**
>> > >> > voted
>> > >> > > or
>> > >> > > > > > > expressed their opinions. Have we communicated to the
>> them
>> > the
>> > >> > > > purpose
>> > >> > > > > of
>> > >> > > > > > > user-zh before or during the voting? If not, that's
>> > something
>> > >> we
>> > >> > > can
>> > >> > > > > > > improve. I suggest we should officially take Flink China
>> > >> > operation
>> > >> > > > team
>> > >> > > > > > as
>> > >> > > > > > > part of Flink community by inviting and encouraging them
>> to
>> > >> join
>> > >> > > > > related
>> > >> > > > > > > discussions and raise their voice in mailing list from
>> now
>> > on.
>> > >> > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 1:48 AM Robert Metzger <
>> > >> > > rmetz...@apache.org>
>> > >> > > > > > > wrote:
>> > >> > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > Bowen, I agree with your observations regarding a chat
>> > group
>> > >> > with
>> > >> > > > 10k
>> > >> > > > > > > > members!
>> > >> > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > I'm not very familiar with how the tech scene in the
>> > >> > > > Chinese-speaking
>> > >> > > > > > > world
>> > >> > > > > > > > works. Ideally, we find a way to help the community
>> grow
>> > AND
>> > >> > > follow
>> > >> > > > > > good
>> > >> > > > > > > > apache practices.
>> > >> > > > > > > > If most other projects and communities are doing user
>> > >> support
>> > >> > via
>> > >> > > > > Chat
>> > >> > > > > > > > groups, then it would probably be difficult to move
>> people
>> > >> away
>> > >> > > > from
>> > >> > > > > > > that,
>> > >> > > > > > > > or in the worst case, it would slow down adoption of
>> Flink
>> > >> in
>> > >> > > > China.
>> > >> > > > > > > > Do you think that people are generally okay with using
>> > >> mailing
>> > >> > > > lists,
>> > >> > > > > > or
>> > >> > > > > > > > will it hinder adoption?
>> > >> > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > 2. We did guide users to use mailing list to ask
>> > questions,
>> > >> but
>> > >> > > > > people
>> > >> > > > > > > > > still prefer DingTalk.
>> > >> > > > > > > > > - We can continue to remind users to use mailing
>> > list
>> > >> > > > > frequently.
>> > >> > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > Do we know why that's the case?
>> > >> > > > > > > > Do we need to educate people more on mailing lists?
>> > >> > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > 4. The apache archive [1] for user-zh doesn't support
>> > >> > searching.
>> > >> > > > > > > > > - We can provide a nabble service for user-zh
>> which
>> > >> > > supports
>> > >> > > > > > > > searching
>> > >> > > > > > > > > itself.
>> > >> > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > Great idea! Do you want to set it up?
>> > >> > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > 5. The messages from the mailing list are not showing
>> up
>> > on
>> > >> > > Baidu.
>> > >> > > > > > > > > - I don't have much experience how to improve
>> this.
>> > >> IMO,
>> > >> > > > Baidu
>> > >> > > > > is
>> > >> > > > > > > not
>> > >> > > > > > > > > good at searching for technology-related information.
>> > >> > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > What is the primary search engine for
>> technology-related
>> > >> > > > information?
>> > >> > > > > > > > Or asking more broadly, how are people in China finding
>> > help
>> > >> > when
>> > >> > > > > they
>> > >> > > > > > > run
>> > >> > > > > > > > into problems with a system?
>> > >> > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > Best,
>> > >> > > > > > > > Robert
>> > >> > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 5:49 AM Jark Wu <
>> imj...@gmail.com
>> > >
>> > >> > > wrote:
>> > >> > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > > Thanks Bowen and Robert,
>> > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > > Here're my observations and thoughts.
>> > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > > 1. Most questions and discussions happen in the
>> > DingTalk.
>> > >> > > > > > > > > 2. We did guide users to use mailing list to ask
>> > >> questions,
>> > >> > but
>> > >> > > > > > people
>> > >> > > > > > > > > still prefer DingTalk.
>> > >> > > > > > > > > - We can continue to remind users to use mailing
>> > list
>> > >> > > > > frequently.
>> > >> > > > > > > > > 3. All the questions in mailing list have replies,
>> > >> although
>> > >> > in
>> > >> > > > > hours.
>> > >> > > > > > > > > - It means users can get problems solved by using
>> > >> mailing
>> > >> > > > list.
>> > >> > > > > > > > > 4. The apache archive [1] for user-zh doesn't support
>> > >> > > searching.
>> > >> > > > > > > > > - We can provide a nabble service for user-zh
>> which
>> > >> > > supports
>> > >> > > > > > > > searching
>> > >> > > > > > > > > itself.
>> > >> > > > > > > > > 5. The messages from the mailing list are not
>> showing up
>> > >> on
>> > >> > > > Baidu.
>> > >> > > > > > > > > - I don't have much experience how to improve
>> this.
>> > >> IMO,
>> > >> > > > Baidu
>> > >> > > > > is
>> > >> > > > > > > not
>> > >> > > > > > > > > good at searching for technology-related information.
>> > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > > Regards,
>> > >> > > > > > > > > Jark
>> > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > > [1].
>> > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > >
>> > >> > > > >
>> > >> > > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> >
>> https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/flink-user-zh/201906.mbox/browser
>> > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > > On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 05:38, Bowen Li <
>> > >> bowenl...@gmail.com>
>> > >> > > > > wrote:
>> > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > I resonate with your concerns Robert. It's because
>> > most
>> > >> > > > questions
>> > >> > > > > > are
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > asked in the DingTalk group which has close to
>> 10,000
>> > >> > people
>> > >> > > > now.
>> > >> > > > > > > > Here're
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > my observations and thoughts.
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > Group chat is great for marketing, announce news
>> and
>> > >> > updates,
>> > >> > > > > > > broadcast
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > live streams/events, and is just TERRIBLE for
>> > ask-answer
>> > >> > > > > questions
>> > >> > > > > > > and
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > discussions (may be ok for 3-5 :) surely not
>> > 10,000...)
>> > >> We
>> > >> > > > > probably
>> > >> > > > > > > all
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > experienced the problems - content not really
>> > >> searchable,
>> > >> > > > topics
>> > >> > > > > > lost
>> > >> > > > > > > > > fast,
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > too much noise, people post questions without
>> evening
>> > >> doing
>> > >> > > any
>> > >> > > > > > > > homework
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > first, etc. I personally have muted that group chat
>> > and
>> > >> > > haven't
>> > >> > > > > > > really
>> > >> > > > > > > > > look
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > at it for a long time, and I do feel the heat in
>> the
>> > >> group
>> > >> > is
>> > >> > > > > also
>> > >> > > > > > > > going
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > down because of the problems.
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > Mailing list is indeed old school, but it still
>> exists
>> > >> > > nowadays
>> > >> > > > > for
>> > >> > > > > > > its
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > own reasons - searchable, async communication,
>> topic
>> > >> > focused,
>> > >> > > > > etc.
>> > >> > > > > > > And
>> > >> > > > > > > > I
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > believe all technical discussions and ask-answer
>> > should
>> > >> > > happen
>> > >> > > > in
>> > >> > > > > > the
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > mailing list, not in that group.
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > IMO, the root cause is that we haven't clarified
>> what
>> > >> that
>> > >> > > > > DingTalk
>> > >> > > > > > > > group
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > should be really used for, and how it should work
>> > >> together
>> > >> > > with
>> > >> > > > > our
>> > >> > > > > > > > > user-zh
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > mailing list. We created that group chat and kind
>> of
>> > >> just
>> > >> > let
>> > >> > > > it
>> > >> > > > > > > drive
>> > >> > > > > > > > to
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > its own directions. This is a good time to reflect
>> on
>> > >> how
>> > >> > we
>> > >> > > > > should
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > position that group and mailing list.
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > As mentioned above, I believe the group chat should
>> > >> only be
>> > >> > > > used
>> > >> > > > > > for
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > marketing/interacting, announcing news and updates,
>> > >> > > > broadcasting
>> > >> > > > > > live
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > streams/events, etc, and all technical discussions
>> > >> should
>> > >> > be
>> > >> > > > > > diverted
>> > >> > > > > > > > to
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > user-zh mailing list.
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > I cc-ed a few organizers and drivers of the
>> DingTalk
>> > >> group
>> > >> > so
>> > >> > > > > that
>> > >> > > > > > > they
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > can share their thoughts.
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > Bowen
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 2:19 AM Robert Metzger <
>> > >> > > > > > rmetz...@apache.org>
>> > >> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> Hey all,
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> the user...@flink.apache.org is now a few months
>> old
>> > >> and
>> > >> > I
>> > >> > > > > wanted
>> > >> > > > > > > to
>> > >> > > > > > > > > hear
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> how things are going.
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> From the number of people in the DingTalk group
>> (5000
>> > >> ?),
>> > >> > I
>> > >> > > > > would
>> > >> > > > > > > have
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> expected more people to use the mailing list. But
>> I
>> > >> also
>> > >> > > > > > understand
>> > >> > > > > > > > that
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> mailing lists are an outdated technology from the
>> > last
>> > >> > > > century.
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> These are the numbers of messages per month:
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> Feb: 72
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> Mar: 170
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> Apr: 119
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> May: 62
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> Jun: 10
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> Is there anything we can do from our side to help
>> > >> adoption
>> > >> > > of
>> > >> > > > > that
>> > >> > > > > > > > > mailing
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> list?
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> For example: Are messages from the mailing list
>> > >> showing up
>> > >> > > on
>> > >> > > > > > Baidu
>> > >> > > > > > > > when
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> looking for common problems with Flink? If not,
>> does
>> > it
>> > >> > > makes
>> > >> > > > > > sense
>> > >> > > > > > > to
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> have
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> a mailing list archive on a server/domain in
>> China?
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> Best,
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> Robert
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 11:42 AM YuZhao Chan <
>> > >> > > > > > yuzhao....@gmail.com>
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> wrote:
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > That's great.
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > >> > > > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > >
>> > >> > > > >
>> > >> > > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
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