In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Gian-Carlo Pascutto
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
Evan Daniel wrote:
It is entirely within the power of the other bots to not lose on time.
I am not sure that is true.
LeelaBot should be perfectly capable of playing about 12 moves per
second in the default configuration.
However, it seems either KGS or kgsGtp do not (correctly) account for
connection lag,
I believe that KGS makes no attempt to account for connection lag.
Indeed, when I last looked into the issue of connection lag (about four
years ago, before CGOS existed), _no_ Go server did anything about
connection lag, but all good chess servers allowed for connection lag by
using clients which sent time-stamped packets. When people suggested to
the administrators of IGS and of KGS that they might use timestamps to
allow for lag, they replied that it would be too difficult and would
allow cheating by people hacking their clients to send false timestamps.
However this seems not to be a problem with chess servers; and chess
players are no more honest than other people.
or the interface adds lag of its own. If it is indeed connection lag
that is the problem, KGS is about 150ms from the tournament machine,
which means Leela can't actually play more than 6 or 7 moves per second
at best, even if the engine itself would move at infinite speed. I
think that in the actual game, the speed was closer to 2 moves per
second and this was not enough to avoid the time loss.
CGOS provides some lag compensation which removes most of the symptons
but does not actually solve the problem. People with fast connections
have more thinking time. If you have a connection hiccup at a bad
moment, you can still lose on time (this happened 1 or 2 times with
Leela in a few hundred games). But in general it is less of a problem
to play out games completely, and in fact Leela does exactly that on CGOS.
I also really do not see what HBotSVN has done wrong. Surely the engine
can't be at fault because it could not identify dead groups correctly
(if that is a requirement, we will all be unable to play tournaments
until about the time the game is solved). I also don't see what could
possibly be the objection against playing until the game is finished.
These rules are sensible for computer games and work fine on CGOS.
I do not like to cripple Leela ("make its time handling more
conservative"). I would like some advice on whether other people agree
that KGS(gtp) does not completely compensate for lag. If it does
compensate completely, then the error must be at my side and I will
focus on fixing whatever it is that causes the moving speed to be below
what it should be.
It used to be the case that KGS does not compensate at all for lag. I
am not aware that this has changed.
If it is indeed a KGS flaw I may add a workaround to Leela as simple as
doing time = time / 10 as soon as winrate >95% or so. There is still a
possibility of losing on time then but it should happen less.
At the time when I was playing with my chess engine on the chess
servers, those servers provided "timeseal" and "timestamp" programs
that compensated for lag. It was no problem to play at timecontrols of
game in 1 minute with such tools, without any workarounds.
PS. I sent a correction to the hardware but I see the report still has
the old information. LeelaBot was on 1 x Intel Xeon 5355 @ 2.66Ghz, so
"only" 4 CPUs.
Thank you for pointing this out, I have corrected the page.
Nick
--
Nick Wedd [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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