Thanks Josh This is getting long-winded and delving more into my specific situation, so I’m renaming it.
Running directly from battery to starter wouldn’t allow for discrete selection of the house bank to allow for starting, should for some reason the start battery be dead ... but I suppose another switch could be used to direct starter to the start or the house bank .... but then again the 1-ALL-2 switch does that anyway. But that does bring up a point regarding the Echo-charger vs the Blue Sea ACR, vs the Yandina Combiner 100 (the 2 latter being the one’s I’ve been looking at). The Echo-charger does not, AFAIK, allow you to combine banks to start. Neither does the Blue Sea. You can set-up to force the Yandina to combine. Now of course if the start battery is severely discharged (or perhaps even failed completely) then you don’t want to combine ... but you do want to be able to select the house bank discretely for feed to the starter. With the alternator connected directly to the house bank, other than perhaps some power ‘blips’ occurring when switching from 2 to 1 (and the ‘make before break’ is supposed to handle that) there is no issue with turning the 1-ALL-2 to OFF with the engine running. Alternator will always see a load from the house bank (other than there should be an ON-OFF switch in the alternator feed to the house, for when performing maintenance on the engine .... and I might add if the starter is directly connected to the start battery there should be an ON-OFF for it as well). Here’s another interesting point. Blue Sea ACR and Yandina are ignition protected. The Echo-charger is not. They also recommend placing the Echo-charger a maximum of 2-feet to the house bank and 2-feet to the start bank, although you can apparently extend them. This limits where one can place the device ... especially in a gas-powered boat like mine with minimal space to fit batteries. Also between the Yandina and the Blue Sea I understand that the Blue Sea is recommended to be directly connected to the +ve battery terminals. The Yandina I am told is perfectly happy “jumpered” between the 1 and 2 of the 1-ALL-2 switch (it also comes with 2-foot cables that can be lengthened ... but not shortened). In my ‘small boat’ application, the plan is to shoe-horn the house bank under the aft dinette seat and the ‘start’ aft of the main bulkhead in the port cockpit locker, I can keep the 1-ALL-2 switch on the bulkhead and also use the bulkhead space for the combiner, battery charger, alternator disconnect and galvanic isolator. All are ignition protected. And the AGM battery is not supposed to vent. The house bank of course I do have to vent. For the rest of the electrical installation I’m working on placing it on the port side above the dinette. That gets all the AC and DC panels and other associated electrical components off of the bulkhead and away from the fuel tank, fuel lines and carb (and for that matter the sink!) There is access from the dinette seat up to this area and can run battery cables from the cockpit locker to the seat area between the cabinet face and the icebox on the port side (probably put in a piece of conduit to keep them dry). Also if I keep the windlass power directly connected to the house bank, it will shorten up those cables. The downside of the house placement is longer battery cables / alternator feed ... and I may have to extend the battery charger cables. I’ll enclose the space on the port side adjacent to the engine where the batteries used to be to reclaim it for storage (tools? spares?). I also am going to eliminate the alternator feed back to the engine panel ... and take the ammeter out. I have a tach to install in its place.I haven’t decided on an exact model yet, but a battery monitor is on the wish list. I also have a Blue Sea weatherproof fuse/switch panel to go into the cockpit where I’ll relocate the nav light, autopilot and chartplotter switches. Peter Fell Sidney, BC Cygnet C&C 27 MkIII From: Josh Muckley Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 11:19 AM To: Peter Fell ; C&C List Subject: Re: Stus-List New Wiring Diagram Draft Peter I take back everything I stated about the echo-charge. For some reason I was under the impression that it was the equivalent of a DC-DC charger and could be programmed/selected for different battery chemistries. After re-reading the owners manual I can not understand any advantage/difference compared to an ACR and am even more eager for Rich to tell us why he so strongly prefers the echo. As for using the reserve as a start, the idea would be to run new cables from the reserve battery to the starter. The 1-ALL-2 switch would always stay on 1. The auxiliary loads would come off the house battery (#1) and the alternator would only be connected to the house battery. The echo-charge/ACR provides charge current to the starting battery when the house bank is full...ish (> ~12.7v). When you go to start, the starting battery is the only one providing power since the echo-charge opened the connection when the charger/alternator was disconnected/shutdown. Remember this is all so that you don't ever have to switch the 1-ALL-2 switch. Even more so that there isn't any temptation to do it while the engine is running. Josh On Mar 27, 2015 1:38 PM, "Peter Fell via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: The ProSport doesn’t have the capability of running multiple charging profiles for different banks. But I think the basic difference here is what type of AGM battery you are using. The charger has a Flooded / AGM setting, using the same profile / rates for both and then a “HP AGM” setting, which one would use on batteries such as Optima Sprial Wound, Odyssey, etc. It also has a Gel setting. I think it’s pretty easy to identify the difference in batteries when shopping. Example of a Group 24 AGM ... the standard marine “dual purpose” AGM might run $200. A HP or a “thin plate pure lead” AGM would typically run over $300. But yes, I do have the capability of running the charger (and all other charging sources) only to the house bank and then using an echo-charger or other device. The echo charger will follow the charging profile of the charger that is connected but will limit the amperage passed to the 2nd bank depending on the voltage difference sensed between the two banks ... which isn’t a huge feature as I understand a battery will consume only the amps it needs. It’s 15 amp maximum for the echo-charger. Also voltage passed is limited to 14.4. I don’t know if there is any benefit or not to using the “reserve” as a conventional “start” .... but I’d have to remember to switch banks after running the engine. From: Josh Muckley Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 3:35 AM To: Peter Fell ; C&C List Subject: Re: Stus-List New Wiring Diagram Draft The echo-charger is great for mixed chemistry battery setups such as your planning. AGM for start and Flooded for house. Each type of battery requires different charge profiles. With the same chemisty the ACR allows for a higher current charge to switched bank. The echos are limited to 20Amps...IIRC. I too am eager to hear why Rich is partial to the echo. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C&C 37+ Solomons, MD _______________________________________________ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
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