Rick, there is no fair way. I am the messenger from the area that has both 10 
and 15% adjustments. Neither is perfect, and the deviation from perfect depends 
on the wind.

Our Wednesday racers give a 10% adjustment for no spin. Our venue (you've been 
here, so you know) is a long, rather narrow river (mile wide, 5 miles long).  
Much of the wind is from the north or south, so there can be some 2-3 mile 
spinnaker runs. Only when it is blowing hard (around here, 15 is hard) does a 
non-spin boat with 10% have a chance. 

Our Saturday club gives 15% for non spin, 7.5% for asym tacked to the bow. It 
is better and sometimes is favorable to the non-spin boat. When it is blowing 
hard enough so a non-spin boat is near hull speed, the advantage of having a 
spinnaker doesn't really increase the boat speed that much. So, (except planing 
boats) the 15% which is spread over the whole race gives the non-spin boats a 
good advantage.

We thought about other schemes, but what we have is simple and more fair than a 
single number (11 seconds) or some other idea. The Charleston Ocean Racing 
Association) (CORA) has a good method which is based on the percentage of the 
jib area to the main area, figuring that a boat with a small jib and therefore 
a smaller spinnaker doesn't get as big an advantage from the chute as one (like 
my 30) with a large J measurement and thus a large spinnaker. But, you would 
have to spend a lot of time doing the calculations - our group didn't want to 
go through the effort (old guys set in their ways, they didn't want Time on 
Time for the same reason, can't tell if they did OK by the end of the race).

Good luck - I've spent a lot of time on this (arguing against the folks who 
don't want any adjustment) so, if you need any more ammunition, email me 
offline.

Gary Nylander
St. Michaels MD
gnylan...@atlanticbb.net

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Rick Brass 
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
  Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 1:41 AM
  Subject: Stus-List PHRF ratings - Spin vs non-spin


  I help out with a  local charity regatta called Pirates on the Pungo.  
http://www.piratesonpungo.org   We are planning to do a couple of special 
trophies this year, one of which will go to the C&C sailboat that finishes 
first in the long pursuit race on the first day of sailing. While we plan to 
have both spin and non-spin classes for the PHRF boats in the regatta (with sub 
classes to keep the competition fair for all size boats), we want the special 
awards to span both spin and non-spin.

   

  NCPHRF, unlike some other regional PHRF groups,  does not grant different 
spin and non-spin ratings. And the PHRF base ratings that we use for a lot of 
the casual sailors presume a spinnaker.  

   

  So we're thinking about creating an adjusted  "NON-SPIN" rating for the boats 
in the special trophy groups that will let them compete relatively fairly with 
the spin boats in the same special group.

   

  I've been told that one of the clubs in Oriental, NC adds an arbitrary 11 
seconds to the NCPHRF spin rating to get a "non-spin" rating - regardless of 
the size or type of boat. That doesn't sound like it would be fair to the 
smaller boats like the 24, 25, or 27, and it might be generous for the larger 
boats like my own 38 or Charlie Nelson's 36XL.

   

  During the past couple of weeks there was some discussion of how various 
clubs and local groups calculate a "non-spin" rating that lets all boats race 
in one class. I seem to recall one message that indicated 10% or 15% of the 
normal rating was added for a boat racing non-spin. But I think there were 
other methods, too.

   

  So the question for the wisdom of the list is this: What is a fair way to 
adjust the normal PHRF rating (which presumes a spinnaker) for a boat that is 
racing non-spin?

   

  Thanks for your input.

   

   

  Rick Brass

  Washington, NC

   

   

   

   



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