James, that is what we have discovered in out Wednesday and Saturday series.
Those who have the crew can take advantage of the increased performance of the
spinnaker and the rest do what they can.
Once in a while, particularly on our 30, we (even though we have the crew) will
opt out of the spinnaker if there is some wind to play with. First, to reduce
the drama, second to realize that on a broad reach or downwind situation we
will be going near hull speed with our huge genoa (a 30-1 has a 13.5 J
measurement, so the foot of the genoa is 18 or so feet!) poled out, so trying
to get another half knot on a short course is just too much trouble - it
interferes with the snackticion....
But, as we race in mostly light conditions, we (assuming more than 3 people)
fly that thing.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: jtsails
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List PHRF ratings - Spin vs non-spin
As a competitor who is hopefully going to be entered in the event that you
are talking about..... I would suggest that you pick a number, 12 or 15(it
doesn't really matter) and go with it. People who have the crew and equipment
to fly a spin are going to fly it and people who don't, won't. Make them feel
like there is some equity and they will come. As for me, If I can assemble a
crew that can fly a chute in the predicted conditions, I'll be signing up as a
spin boat. It will make very little difference to me if the adjustments give me
an advantage or not, that's just cover for the trash talking at the post race
party!!!!
James
Delaney
C&C 38 MK II
Oriental, NC
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Goodyear
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List PHRF ratings - Spin vs non-spin
I would lend my support to the +15 seconds to their spinnaker rating for
non-spinnaker boats (unless an allowance was already given for asym only). The
PHRFNE standard is +12 seconds, but it is not usually enough on windward /
leeward courses. I'd think +15 would be good for you considering the distance
race format. We had a Wednesday night fleet in Boston where you could check in
as spin / non-spin depending on your crew for any given week. It all worked
out OK with the PHRFNE +12, but generally the spinnaker boats won. I don't
want to offend anyone, but boats sailing with spinnaker were more experienced,
better prepared and better handled than those without, so I think the right
performance won... Our fleet varied from Farr 40 with professional crew to
J/22's.
Tim
Mojito
C&C 35-3 (currently waiting for an insurance estimate for a new pedestal,
stern rail, instrument pod...)
Branford, CT
On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 9:03 AM, <cenel...@aol.com> wrote:
As a PHRF racer, I realize that assigning a single rating for a boat
sailing in various conditions of wind, waves, etc. is a very poor substitute
for a more complicated and more expensive solution such as IRC, etc. etc.
Adding modifications to this single number to account for sail
configurations such as spin or non-spin is IMHO similar to adding lipstick to a
pig.
However, for overall winner determinations, a +15 seconds per mile
adjustment to the rating when sailing non-spin has been used in some local
distance races in order to award a winner. This seems to work reasonably for
our club racing--after all this is club racing and our PHRF certificate costs
all of ~ $20 per year!
However, I have also raced in events where a combined trophy was awarded
where there were spin, non-spin and cruiser fleets. In these events, sometimes
the overall award was given to the winner of the most competitive class. IIRC
this class was defined as the class in the fleet whose corrected times were the
closest or with the smallest spread. Presumably this means that the first boat
in this class had to work very hard to stay there.
This may not work in your case but it is another way to combine the
fleets--whether it is less arbitrary than a single number adjustment is another
matter.
FWIW,
Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36XL/kcb
cenel...@aol.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Brass <rickbr...@earthlink.net>
To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 28, 2013 1:46 am
Subject: Stus-List PHRF ratings - Spin vs non-spin
I help out with a local charity regatta called Pirates on the Pungo.
http://www.piratesonpungo.org We are planning to do a couple of special
trophies this year, one of which will go to the C&C sailboat that finishes
first in the long pursuit race on the first day of sailing. While we plan to
have both spin and non-spin classes for the PHRF boats in the regatta (with sub
classes to keep the competition fair for all size boats), we want the special
awards to span both spin and non-spin.
NCPHRF, unlike some other regional PHRF groups, does not grant different
spin and non-spin ratings. And the PHRF base ratings that we use for a lot of
the casual sailors presume a spinnaker.
So we’re thinking about creating an adjusted “NON-SPIN” rating for the
boats in the special trophy groups that will let them compete relatively fairly
with the spin boats in the same special group.
I’ve been told that one of the clubs in Oriental, NC adds an arbitrary 11
seconds to the NCPHRF spin rating to get a “non-spin” rating – regardless of
the size or type of boat. That doesn’t sound like it would be fair to the
smaller boats like the 24, 25, or 27, and it might be generous for the larger
boats like my own 38 or Charlie Nelson’s 36XL.
During the past couple of weeks there was some discussion of how various
clubs and local groups calculate a “non-spin” rating that lets all boats race
in one class. I seem to recall one message that indicated 10% or 15% of the
normal rating was added for a boat racing non-spin. But I think there were
other methods, too.
So the question for the wisdom of the list is this: What is a fair way to
adjust the normal PHRF rating (which presumes a spinnaker) for a boat that is
racing non-spin?
Thanks for your input.
Rick Brass
Washington, NC
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