Rick, Now that I think about it a little more - how would you detect if the rudder was flexing?
If I had to guess, I think the owner on the Sailing Anarchy thread has a Mk2. I know that the advertising literature for the 25 Mk2 said that the rudder design was new. The support under the mast in the cabin is very robust on the 25 Mk1. (Not only has mine resisted the weight of the mast and the tension on the shrouds all these years, but it has withstood the repeated impact of my forehead.) The design is not the same on the Mk2. Supposedly, there was a factory recall or tech bulletin to the dealers to beef up the mast support for the Mk2. Most of the Mk2's I looked at before I bought my Mk1 had something going on under the mast. That was one reason I steered clear of them, even though I prefer a lot of the other features of the Mk2 - the traveler location, etc. Agree the 25 Mk1 is built like a tank. Before I settled on it, I looked at almost every boat made in significant numbers in that size range. (I looked at 30 boats before I bought mine!) The Mk1 is better built than most of them. The only think I've encountered that left me shaking my head is how they cut the holes for the chainplates through the core and did nothing to seal it. Several of the 25 Mk1's I looked at had a broken mast step casting at the location of that pin, probably because of what you describe. My boat has the old-style mast step similar to what is used on the C&C 27. It's just an aluminum channel section. I had the gudgeons sleeved last year. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Brass <rickbr...@earthlink.net> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 23:29:06 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder Re-build/replacement now transom hung I was about to say exactly what Rick said, based on 18 years of experience with my 25 mk1. The rudder for the MK2 might be different, but I have my doubts. I read the Sailing Anarchy thread, and I have to comment that the only contributor who knew anything about the C&C 25 was the Owner – and he didn’t seem to know much. He comments about the weaknesses of the boat, for example commenting on the need to replace the mast step. I actually bent the jib crane at my old club in Philly when unstepping the mast – seems one of my helpers had neglected to pull the pin in the step and the jib crane was trying to pick the whole boat up by the sling around the mast. My 25 is built like a tank. Which is why it is so much heavier than a J/24. I once had a port/starboard collision when I was trying to duck a J/30. The damage to the J was more than twice what I paid for Belle (Heck, the teak toe rail was half the price I paid for the C&C 25.), and all the damage I had was some blue paint that I took off the gelcoat with a 3M scrubby pad. After 37 years, I have a little wiggle in my rudder. One of these days I need to get around to putting some bushings into the pintles and gudgeons to compensate for years of wear and herd use.. There is definitely no flex in the rudder itself. Rick BrassImzadi -1976 C&C 38 mk1la Belle Aurore -1975 C&C 25 mk1Washington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick Taillieu Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 4:20 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder Re-build/replacement now transom hung Hi Mark, The 25’s fibreglass rudder is made in 2 halves bonded together.There is wood laminated in the upper part, ending about 1-1½” below the lower gudgeon plate, below that it’s hollow.There is a small hole right at the base of the “L” where the rudder extends forward and one at the very bottom of the blade.This lets the water drain out when the boat is hauled and it’s very important to keep them open especially if you are in an area that freezes.The 24’s rudder might be made in the same way, I’m not sure. I might be interested in a few things off your salvage boat, contact me off list and we’ll talk. Cheers Rick TaillieuNemesis'75 C&C 25 #371Shearwater Yacht ClubHalifax, NS. From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Mark G Sent: November-11-12 4:35 PM To:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder Re-build/replacement now transom hung The transom-hung rudders are a different discussion altogether, but I learned something recently and want to add it to the collective knowledge of the list. The earlier of the 25 Mk1's came from the factory with laminated wood rudders, which is what my '73 hull #79 has. (Check out some of my previous posts about trying to maintain / preserve it.) I recently salvaged '74 25 hull #301. What follows is all based on the assumption that this boat had its original rudder. This later rudder configuration is probably common to the 24, later 25 Mk1 and 25 Mk2. 27 Mk5 could be the same, don't know. After the owner cut off the keel, he removed the stands, dropped the boat on its hull, and broke the rudder approximately in half. (I advised him that the used rudder was probably worth at least what he got for the lead keel, $0.60/lb, ~1800 lbs.) I was surprised to see that the salvaged fiberglass rudder is hollow. (Hollow as in you can stick a broom handle in it and freely move it back and forth.) The fiberglass is only about 1/4" thick. I guess I was expecting thicker fiberglass, or foam filled, something like that. The top half of the rudder is hollow to a point, and then the upper third or so appears to be solid. My guess is that it's a laminated wood stub, either painted or glassed over. This helps to explain this thread I came across recently about how much the 25 rudder can flex: http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=113193 Without a doubt, this rudder is lighter than my laminated wood rudder. (I've had my rudder off 3 out of 6 years I've owned my boat. I've carried it around a lot!) I also find this surprising, since you'd think the weight of a transom-hung rudder would be critical to the balance of the boat. By the way, I took the pieces of broken rudder, thinking they might be useful to someone trying to build a mold, etc. Contact me off list if you're interested. Yours for the cost of shipping, might be cheaper to ship the two pieces separately! Mark
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