Jan Coffey wrote: > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "ritu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > 'Tis just that I can't see *how* India is supposed to be blamed > for this > > and thus, I will ask when someone says that in front of me. > > The logic is that americans workers tax dollors, hard work building > american corporations, and the political environemnt in which those > corporations were able to exist, have payed for job expansion in > India, therefore the Indian people owe the american worker > compensation back. > > If a theif comes and steals your car and gives it to me, when all > is discovered I would have to give the car back. Now, If I knew the > car was stolen, and I sell it's parts, then I would be a criminal.
Dunno - I still don't get why everyone is so very eager to hate the third party rather than the actual thief which carried out the entire displacement of property. And as for the criminal bit, well, it isn't some shady, underground, fly-by-the-night illegal operation. These contracts follow the laws of two countries and are in tune with the concept of globalisation. > You have to understand that what is going on right now is fostering > a very negative emotional respons. Oh, I know that. Sometime in March a young American killed himself over this issue. I don't know how many times this has happened but that incident made the headlines here. People don't kill themselves if the issue isn't emotional and once people are driven to that point, bitterness and hate only intensifies. All this I know. > I am not justifying that emotional response, only pointing it out, > and asking what should be done about it. And I am just asking what these people would like the Indians to do. Not accept the jobs that are being offered? Insist on being paid the salary of their US counterparts? Put aside a part of their paycheck each month and send it to the US? > >From the out of work american's perspective Indea is steeling our > Jobs, and they know it. I have heard representatives from Indean > companies say and I quoate, "I can hve 200 developers on this > toomarow for the price of one of your workers here. You can get rid > yourself of these expensive development staff emediatly." > > How can we not hear this and not get angry and feel like we are > being robbed? Oh, there is no way you can not get angry. But I thought value for money was a basic tenet of capitalism and robbery involved coercion. To use your previous example of a car, it is like one mechanic accusing the other of robbery just because the latter offered a lower price and wooed the former's customers away. As far as I can make out, the salient point here is that a choice was offered and that the second mechanic neither used guns/threats/blackmail, nor got into the car and drove it away. About that Indian chap you quoted above, the only way he was telling the truth was if each US developer is paid around USD 60,000 pm. Is that the going rate in the US? > Americans, are a ficle people, you see one face now, the one giving, > but you might have to deal with the other face eventualy, then one > that has had their way of life taken away. Oh, please, nobody here is under any illusions about 'the giving face of the Americans'. We know that we are being paid a pittance by your standards, that the jobs are coming here not out of any concern for us but because it suits the bottom line of these companies and that the minute they find a cheaper alternative, they would relocate the jobs. Which is part of the reason why the Indian govt. has been encouraging people to explore the African and Asian market for these jobs. The other part of the reason being the backlash being felt in US and Europe. > What is going on right now is drasticaly shifting the political > opinions of those being affected. Outside of work, in the bars and > in the resturants, there is also raceism growing. Yep. The NRIs mention it frequently. > Consider that it takes many CS majors 5 years (not 4) to get a BS. > That is not 5 years of frat parties and spring breaks, it's 5 years > of very intense long hours which are physicaly demenishing. Nearly > very CS course I took ended with less than 10% of the students who > started, and not all at the end passed. Meanwhile the buisnes majors > drank and caroused and didn't have to work on projects over spring > break. They took easy courses which allowed them time to go to the > gym and party every night. Many of these so-clled students were the > same ones droping out of CS classes. Now they have conspired with > Indea to rob the American Computer Scientist of all their hard work, > all the Software Companies we built with 16 hour days while others > were working 8, all of the life postponements and dedication, and > now, Indea and some frat-boy fat cats come and steel it, say thank > you very much for the tax breaks, thank you vey much for doing all > the hard work, thank you very much for putting your lives on hold, > but we are now going to take that and give you nothing in return. > > Do you see, we are breading classism...but then I guess that is > nothing to Indea, where classism is common place. Don't you think the last comment was a bit below the belt? Besides being inaccurate, at least insofar as it suggests that the US society has been class-free one until all this happened? But you are right, it is nothing to India. Not because class divisions are common here [they are, as are caste, communal, regional and economic divisions] but because it is not our problem. All the Indian companies are doing is offering the US companies an alternative. The US companies are free to not take it. > Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe this will all pass, but right now, I m > hearing strong raceism from those who use to be liberal, I'm being > told not to bring my indian friends along, I am seeing fewer tables > with Indeans and Americans eating together, Indean resturants that > are empty of all but Indean patrons. I'm hearing reports of Indean > kids getting beat up by other American kids who's parent are out of > work. It's getting starting to get ugly. > > Am I angry? well, yes, but I still have a job. Do I think this > raceism is right? No. Do I think that the Indean people owe the > american worker, ...the guy telling my boss she can fire me and all > my associates and replace us with some Indean sweat shop, yes, he > owes the american worker, Okay. What do you think he owes the American worker? Not to make the offer? Or not to make the offer in the hearing of the workers? Or a percentage of his profits? Or something else? > Am I going to > vote Republican in the next election. Hardly. I'm rooting for Kerry anyway. > I tensions rose > between Indea and Pakistan would I be infavor of helping indea out. > Doubt it. And Jan, how would that be any different from the USA's subcontinental policy over the last 57 years? :) Ritu _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
