We are starting to do some aerial, but it's extremely opportunistic. The default is underground.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@go-mtc.com> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2025 1:07:23 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BEAD I learned my lesson on make ready years ago, so I am 100% underground now. And frankly, I only splice what I need on the large count cables. We splice them ourselves so not much cost there. I have never seen $41/burn before. Most of the time when we were burning for money we were happy to get $16. BTW, I hate splicing ribbon. Seems almost impossible to get 12 perfect splices. From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2025 11:59 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BEAD Yeah, city and county permits aren't usually bad. People mean different things when they say "permit", though. The elco technically is licensing us to make an attachment to a pole, but people often call it a "pole permit". We have to complete all the make ready before we're licensed to attach and make ready is usually the killer. Pole attachment application fees have been north of $150/pole in NY since about 2015 when the Elco's outsourced the engineering work. NYDOT permits need engineer stamped drawings, and the details they require are time consuming. RR crossings can be ridiculous. Overall, the cable and placement of the cable makes up about 1/3 of the cost. So we do spend twice as much on all the crap it takes to get there. In that light it's very tempting to say that placing a 288 vs a 96 isn't that big of a deal, but it does start to look like a big deal once you add everything up. Contractors charge per splice. Butt splicing a 288 is like $12,000....more if it's prevailing wage. Your reel length is constrained by the size and weight of reel that your equipment can handle. Corning ALTOS 288F weighs twice as much as their 96F, so your doing 3x the splices twice as often for ultimately 6x the splicing cost. It also means bigger closures everywhere you're tapping into that cable. It does all add up. -Adam From: AF on behalf of Chuck McCown Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2025 11:29 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BEAD I have not found permitting, engineering or fees to be all the expensive as long as you are not dealing with federal lands. Most cities are very reasonable. -----Original Message----- From: AF [ mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh Sent: Friday, March 21, 2025 5:54 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BEAD The extra fiber needed to do AE isn’t a big deal when you are building centralized split architecture in mid to dense population areas, but it becomes pretty cost prohibitive quickly in low density and with NG2-PON on the horizon with the capability of delivering 10G/10G over a 40G capacity PON I don’t see much need for AE anytime soon. Why is is so expensive? Fiber isn’t expensive - it’s the permitting, engineering, fees to every government entity, paperwork, etc. that you have to pay. Mark > On Mar 21, 2025, at 4:49 PM, dbernardi < dberna...@zitomedia.net > wrote: > > > > But the expensive/important part (fiber) is in place. If the gubment is going > to piss away tax dollars for unserved/underserved broadband, fiber > construction seems like a decent urinal. > > XGS-PON can co-exist with GPON on the same fiber so eventual upgrades are > fairly easy. Do combo GPON/XGS-PON at the OLT out of the gate so a CPE swap > is the only thing require for an upgrade to a shared 10Gb service. When > XGS-PON isn't enough bandwidth for the 32 subscribers on a PON, I'd rather > replace equipment at either end than deal with another construction project. > Or do a 1:16 split. > > Preparing for AE when doing the construction is probably worthwhile too even > if you only light for PON initially, or mix/match. The cost of deploying high > count fiber cable isn't that significant in the big picture. > > And why does fiber construction have to be so (artificially?) expensive. Buy > America will certainly make broadband deployments more expensive but that's a > good thing if it truly provides jobs and manufacturing investment, but I have > my doubts. > > > > On 3/21/2025 2:04 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: >> Is GPON good enough? That can only do gigabit and each port is 2.5G. Should >> these projects require NGPON? Or maybe every location should have AE so they >> can do 100G to start with. >> On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 2:01 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com < >> mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com >> wrote: >> Because in X years they won't be. With fiber they will be upon the >> same Infrastructure. >> On Fri, Mar 21, 2025, 10:59 AM Josh Luthman >> <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com < mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com >> >> wrote: >> But people that currently have fixed wireless of 100x20 are >> sufficiently served? How does that make any sense? >> On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 11:44 AM Steve Jones >> <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com < mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com >> >> wrote: >> they should not allow fixed wireless, they never should have >> allowed technology with a short shelf life >> On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 9:17 AM Adam Moffett >> <dmmoff...@gmail.com < mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com >> wrote: >> Well.... >> https://bsky.app/profile/craigsilverman.bsky.social/ >> post/3lkiye5n2dk2p < https://bsky.app/profile/ >> craigsilverman.bsky.social/post/3lkiye5n2dk2p> >> https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/s/seq3uoU1L5 >> < https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/s/seq3uoU1L5 > >> The director of BEAD quit. He says the previous rules >> interpreted the bill to mean that only FTTH would meet >> the performance and future-proofing requirements. He is >> claiming that there are proposed rule changes that will >> allow Starlink but not allow fixed wireless. I don't >> know whether the changes /intentionally/ benefit >> Starlink, but this guy is crying foul and felt strongly >> enough about it to resign over it. >> -Adam >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From:* AF on behalf of Ken Hohhof >> *Sent:* Thursday, March 20, 2025 12:19 AM >> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' >> *Subject:* [AFMUG] BEAD >> I’m surprised BEAD hasn’t run into problems because the >> E stands for Equity and DEI is now banned. >> But if they eliminate the E, would it just be BAD? >> -- AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com < mailto:AF@af.afmug.com > >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> < http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > >> -- AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com < mailto:AF@af.afmug.com > >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> < http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > >> -- AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com < mailto:AF@af.afmug.com > >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com < http:// >> af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >> -- AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com < mailto:AF@af.afmug.com > >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com < http:// >> af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
