Look whose talkin’... pretty sure you and Bill got prolly a decade on
me...
*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Monday, January 27, 2025 10:38 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] home networks
“older than dirt”
*From:*AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
*Sent:* Monday, January 27, 2025 11:26 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] home networks
I heard a rumor that Chuck was around when the light bulb was invented too
On Mon, Jan 27, 2025, 8:58 AM <ch...@go-mtc.com> wrote:
I was a telco installer repairman back in the day when the order
came down that everyone had to now have modular jacks and they
could indeed buy and use their own phone. I spent months going to
homes and installing jacks and modular line cords on telco owned
phones. We did every single phone in our service area. But we
still collected rent on the phones. Nothing forced them to buy
and own.
Best Regards,
Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
<https://www.google.com/maps/search/8401+N+%0D%0ACommerce+Dr+Lake+Point,+Utah+84074?entry=gmail&source=g>
Lake Point, Utah 84074
<https://www.google.com/maps/search/8401+N+%0D%0ACommerce+Dr+Lake+Point,+Utah+84074?entry=gmail&source=g>
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com <http://www.mccowntech.com>
www.microtrench.pro <http://www.microtrench.pro>
www.terabitnetworks.com <http://www.terabitnetworks.com>
*From:*Chris Fabien
*Sent:*Monday, January 27, 2025 6:40 AM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] home networks
My experience, we find the majority of our customers do take a
managed router, we charge $8/mo. If they have that, we try to be
helpful as we can with home network issues including occasionally
needing to send a tech out to figure out what's going on. It is
not a "covers anything repair plan" though, physical damage is
still a paid repair. For outbuildings, if the customer will
install a conduit to the building we will have tech pull a cat5
and install a mesh AP out there for $5 additional monthly cost. If
it's longer than ~300ft we tell them its outside of our scope and
we'd need to install a second fiber service, or they can do
whatever else they want on their own (fiber run, wireless link
etc) but it's not supported by us then.
On Sun, Jan 26, 2025 at 8:18 PM Dev <d...@logicalwebhost.com> wrote:
I think it’s smaller number than we think that want to know
about the bits, SNR, etc. Those are just the kinds of people
we really like.
The other majority, probably vast majority, just want to see
magic happen and not know why, so they can get back to wasting
their valuable time as a nation of observers, not
participants. You can have to do stuff to participate, easier
to just observe. Those people don’t own businesses like ours,
or want to, or want to know how they work really.
</rant>
On Jan 26, 2025, at 10:23 AM, Ken Hohhof
<khoh...@kwom.com> wrote:
Carterfone decision was 1968, up to that point you leased
your phones from the phone company which maintained the
inside wiring. If you added another phone, your bill went
up, and they would run automated line tests to detect
phones you weren’t paying for. After Carterfone, telcos
installed demarcs on the outside of houses and were
responsible for the network up to the demarc, unless you
paid extra for home wiring maintenance. Nobody rents or
even buys their landline phones from the phone company
anymore.
So is anyone surprised that home Internet is kind of going
the opposite direction?
Actually, we find our customers divide into two camps. The
majority think leasing things like routers is a ripoff by
greedy ISPs, and they want to own and manage their own
networking equipment (whether they actually know how to do
that or not). Basically they figure that after a couple
years it would be cheaper to own it.
But another group views it all as “Internet”, and they’re
paying us for Internet, right? The big ISPs have mostly
accepted this and actually use it as a marketing tool
under the name “whole home WiFi”. But in reality, they
just sell or lease you additional WiFi mesh nodes which
you can plug in where you want and monitor with an app if
you want. Still pretty much DIY.
Where that kind of breaks down is that many people in our
rural area have outbuildings which may be barns, or shop
buildings, or man caves and party barns where they watch
football games. And of course all of the above need
security cameras.
So there are DIY solutions to these, and a limited number
we are willing to install. We don’t do trenching, and we
won’t do the WiFi mesh node in the window trick, even
though it might work OK if they do it themselves. But
some customers seem frustrated because they think it’s all
Internet and if they’re paying us for Internet we have to
get it to every corner of every building.
I mean, I guess the landline phone company will install
phone jacks in additional rooms or even bury wires to
other buildings, but you’re going to pay labor and
materials plus pay for maintenance. Maybe it’s all in
“managing customer expectations” and I’m not good enough
at that. Somehow when it comes to Internet, some people
seem to think anything Internet related is covered by
their monthly bill. I have seen some WISPs offer a
monthly maintenance plan, but you’d think that would cover
repairs, not unlimited home networking additions and
device support. I feel like we’re expected to be the free
version of Geek Squad.
It just seems strange to me that on one hand people
celebrate their freedom to not pay the phone company for
their home wiring and phones, but on the other hand they
expect almost concierge level service from their ISP. But
I’m also surprised at people who have Amazon or Walmart
deliver their groceries and put them in the garage or even
the fridge. I wonder how that goes with people who have dogs.
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