I know there are sonar types of devices that can locate objects buried in
the sea floor or the bottom of a lake. So surely there is a way to adapt
that technology to find gas lines. You might have to have a big rubber pad
and some acoustically conductive gel, like they use in ultrasounds, to do it
but I keep fantasizing on starting this project. Even if I had to build a
trough of water that was in contact with the asphalt I would if I could find
a fish finder type of thing that is known for being able to see below the
bottom. If you search, there are white papers about this kind of thing. It
would work where GPR would not work.
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Fabien
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2023 7:02 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience.
There are times visual contact is just not practicable without extreme
expense. We have a lot of sandy seasonal high water table areas where
it's difficult to expose a line even 3ft deep, and anything deeper is
impossible without dewatering and shoring. Even with a vac truck you
just might catch a glimpse of the line before the walls cave in. Our
reality is, for buried phone, we check depth with our locator and plan
our bores to avoid it by 18" or more, we only daylight if we actually
need our line to cross it close. Gas, we pothole that 100% mainly
because of the risk and the potential of locate wire being not right
with the pipe which is fairly common. Luckily we only have gas in town
here.
On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 2:27 PM <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
I said it poorly. I was thinking more about the “visual contact” rule.
From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2023 2:23 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <af@af.afmug.com>
Cc: Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience.
I pothole 100%. Crazy expensive not to.
From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2023 10:58 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience.
“theres law and then theres what guys do.”
I had a boss who gave a long speech about how the law is written vs how
the policy for enforcement is written vs how the court interprets it, and
how it can change at each step along the way. I heard the same speech
every time I brought up that something he’s doing might be illegal. I can
summarize his long winded speech as, “It was legal if I got away with it.”
That may not be how we’d like things to be, but it’s true in a practical
sense.
The only time I saw a roofer on a house with a tied off safety harness was
Mike Holmes when he was on TV. The speed limit is 55mph unless everybody
else is going 65mph. And I suppose how much you pothole for buried pipes
becomes irrelevant if you didn’t hit any of them.
-Adam
From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2023 4:53 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience.
theres law and then theres what guys do. here its 18 inches either side of
the outside of the mark.
Reason why im anal about this is not liability, sure the guy who didnt
pothole is liable, but that irrelevant to the fact that the water is hit.
if my pipe is 40 inches and an accurate utility locator is used, i want it
reading at 40 inches, not 30 or 24 cause the trace was sloppy. Everybody
from start to finish should always do their jobs accurately, but operate
under the assumption that the guy before and the guy after did not and
will not
On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 3:28 PM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com>
wrote:
Here, you have to pothole until you see the gas line. I tell my guys that
if they have gone deeper and side to side to cover the whole 24” protected
zone then we are good to go. But technically the Utah law says you have
to have “visual contact” with the thing you are crossing.
From: Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2023 1:05 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience.
the vertical concern is based in the real world. A guy will believe his
locator and not pothole.
by attached i mean a wrap or tape if its trench. you can get any pipe you
want to pay for. i dont know what plumbers can get embedded
On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 8:56 AM Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
wrote:
Ohio is 18 inches and some people tell me neighboring states are 24 inches
horizontally.
>The bug concern is vertical
That's what I'm talking about - if you're below or above the 3 inch pipe,
that's a 3 inch variance.
>If I was paying id spec the trace be attached to the product
Can you get tracer wire built onto plumbing pipe?
On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 5:01 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
wrote:
if youre paying to be able to trace, that trace should be exact, no
tolerance on installation. My locator it most of the time dead on. The
bug concern is vertical. If the pipe is sitting at 48" but the trace is
coiled up to 24, some yahoo isnt gonna pothole and drill under it. Nobody
gives a shit about liability when their utility is blasted, they want
their utility back on. A sloppy trace also causes cut tracers that dont
get spliced. We are supposed to pothole to the side of the mark to avoid
hitting the utility top on.
If I was paying id spec the trace be attached to the product
On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 3:25 PM Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
wrote:
How big of a pipe would it have to be for that to be a concern? I would
think ~3 inches of variance is within the spec of the locator.
On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 4:20 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
wrote:
stand over them when theyre putting it in to make sure they dont just
randomly toss it in the open trench. you dont want it toning out at a
different depth/horizontal because it coiled up. especially if theyre
doing a wide trench excavation.
On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 11:39 AM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com>
wrote:
All these seem to be UF
https://www.plumbersstock.com/water-works/tracer-wire.html
From: Carl Peterson
Sent: Monday, January 9, 2023 10:18 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience.
We specced safe-trace with 1800lb pullback strength for our current
project and will likely makenthat the standard for anything drilled in
moving forward. Not sure it is overkill.
On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 11:05 AM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com>
wrote:
14 gauge is rugged and will last. I think the gas company out here uses
14 gauge. 20 gauge on up is not terribly strong. UDOT recently changed
their spec for the tracer molded into MD7 microduct from 20 gauge to 14
gauge.
From: Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, January 9, 2023 9:37 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience.
Don't you have some random copper laying around? Our fiber tracer wire is
24 awg. Just place the conductive wire in the same hole as the
water/sewer lines. The color is kind of pointless but I guess you could
spend the money and follow the rules *shrug*.
If the wire ends the locate ends. Why not just extend the wire with the
new pipe?
14 gauge seems like way too big if you ask me, that's a lot of money down
that new sewer line.
On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 11:31 AM Forrest Christian (List Account)
<li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
I'm working on doing specs for a project (home) which will require burying
new water and sewer lines on the property.
I'm tired of not being able to locate these after they're buried so I plan
on having the contractor bury some tracer wire along with the plumbing.
I've learned that the best option for things like this is to either spec
or provide exactly what I want buried. Otherwise you'll end up with some
inexperienced contractor which installs something which won't work.
Apparently the choices for tracer wire are far more varied than I had
expected. Insulation, metal type, gauge, color, and so on.
It looks like 14AWG copper HMWPE might be what I'm looking for. But there
are other options as well. Does any of this work better or is less (or
more) likely to be damaged in a way which makes it untraceable? I'm
assuming green and blue will be needed for sewer and water.
I don't think the following will apply, but there is also the possibility
that at least one of the lines won't terminate at one end anywhere that we
can poke the wire up above the ground (tapping into existing line) I'm
assuming that one can resolve this by laying a ground rod in the trench
and terminating to that.
Any other things I should watch for here?
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PORT NETWORKS
401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
Baltimore, MD 21202
(410) 637-3707
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