There are times visual contact is just not practicable without extreme expense. We have a lot of sandy seasonal high water table areas where it's difficult to expose a line even 3ft deep, and anything deeper is impossible without dewatering and shoring. Even with a vac truck you just might catch a glimpse of the line before the walls cave in. Our reality is, for buried phone, we check depth with our locator and plan our bores to avoid it by 18" or more, we only daylight if we actually need our line to cross it close. Gas, we pothole that 100% mainly because of the risk and the potential of locate wire being not right with the pipe which is fairly common. Luckily we only have gas in town here.
On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 2:27 PM <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I said it poorly. I was thinking more about the “visual contact” rule. > > > > > > From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2023 2:23 PM > To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <af@af.afmug.com> > Cc: Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience. > > > > I pothole 100%. Crazy expensive not to. > > > > From: dmmoff...@gmail.com > > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2023 10:58 AM > > To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience. > > > > “theres law and then theres what guys do.” > > > > I had a boss who gave a long speech about how the law is written vs how the > policy for enforcement is written vs how the court interprets it, and how it > can change at each step along the way. I heard the same speech every time I > brought up that something he’s doing might be illegal. I can summarize his > long winded speech as, “It was legal if I got away with it.” > > > > That may not be how we’d like things to be, but it’s true in a practical > sense. > > > > The only time I saw a roofer on a house with a tied off safety harness was > Mike Holmes when he was on TV. The speed limit is 55mph unless everybody > else is going 65mph. And I suppose how much you pothole for buried pipes > becomes irrelevant if you didn’t hit any of them. > > > > -Adam > > > > > > > > From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Steve Jones > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2023 4:53 PM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience. > > > > theres law and then theres what guys do. here its 18 inches either side of > the outside of the mark. > > > > Reason why im anal about this is not liability, sure the guy who didnt > pothole is liable, but that irrelevant to the fact that the water is hit. if > my pipe is 40 inches and an accurate utility locator is used, i want it > reading at 40 inches, not 30 or 24 cause the trace was sloppy. Everybody from > start to finish should always do their jobs accurately, but operate under the > assumption that the guy before and the guy after did not and will not > > > > On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 3:28 PM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com> wrote: > > Here, you have to pothole until you see the gas line. I tell my guys that if > they have gone deeper and side to side to cover the whole 24” protected zone > then we are good to go. But technically the Utah law says you have to have > “visual contact” with the thing you are crossing. > > > > From: Steve Jones > > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2023 1:05 PM > > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience. > > > > the vertical concern is based in the real world. A guy will believe his > locator and not pothole. > > > > by attached i mean a wrap or tape if its trench. you can get any pipe you > want to pay for. i dont know what plumbers can get embedded > > > > On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 8:56 AM Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> > wrote: > > Ohio is 18 inches and some people tell me neighboring states are 24 inches > horizontally. > > > > >The bug concern is vertical > > > > That's what I'm talking about - if you're below or above the 3 inch pipe, > that's a 3 inch variance. > > > > >If I was paying id spec the trace be attached to the product > > > > Can you get tracer wire built onto plumbing pipe? > > > > On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 5:01 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: > > if youre paying to be able to trace, that trace should be exact, no tolerance > on installation. My locator it most of the time dead on. The bug concern is > vertical. If the pipe is sitting at 48" but the trace is coiled up to 24, > some yahoo isnt gonna pothole and drill under it. Nobody gives a shit about > liability when their utility is blasted, they want their utility back on. A > sloppy trace also causes cut tracers that dont get spliced. We are supposed > to pothole to the side of the mark to avoid hitting the utility top on. > > If I was paying id spec the trace be attached to the product > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 3:25 PM Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> > wrote: > > How big of a pipe would it have to be for that to be a concern? I would > think ~3 inches of variance is within the spec of the locator. > > > > On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 4:20 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: > > stand over them when theyre putting it in to make sure they dont just > randomly toss it in the open trench. you dont want it toning out at a > different depth/horizontal because it coiled up. especially if theyre doing a > wide trench excavation. > > > > On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 11:39 AM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com> wrote: > > All these seem to be UF > > https://www.plumbersstock.com/water-works/tracer-wire.html > > > > From: Carl Peterson > > Sent: Monday, January 9, 2023 10:18 AM > > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience. > > > > We specced safe-trace with 1800lb pullback strength for our current project > and will likely makenthat the standard for anything drilled in moving > forward. Not sure it is overkill. > > > > On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 11:05 AM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com> wrote: > > 14 gauge is rugged and will last. I think the gas company out here uses 14 > gauge. 20 gauge on up is not terribly strong. UDOT recently changed their > spec for the tracer molded into MD7 microduct from 20 gauge to 14 gauge. > > > > From: Josh Luthman > > Sent: Monday, January 9, 2023 9:37 AM > > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Direct bury tracer wire reccomendations/experience. > > > > Don't you have some random copper laying around? Our fiber tracer wire is 24 > awg. Just place the conductive wire in the same hole as the water/sewer > lines. The color is kind of pointless but I guess you could spend the money > and follow the rules *shrug*. > > > > If the wire ends the locate ends. Why not just extend the wire with the new > pipe? > > > > 14 gauge seems like way too big if you ask me, that's a lot of money down > that new sewer line. > > > > On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 11:31 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) > <li...@packetflux.com> wrote: > > I'm working on doing specs for a project (home) which will require burying > new water and sewer lines on the property. > > > > I'm tired of not being able to locate these after they're buried so I plan on > having the contractor bury some tracer wire along with the plumbing. > > > > I've learned that the best option for things like this is to either spec or > provide exactly what I want buried. Otherwise you'll end up with some > inexperienced contractor which installs something which won't work. > > > > Apparently the choices for tracer wire are far more varied than I had > expected. Insulation, metal type, gauge, color, and so on. > > > > It looks like 14AWG copper HMWPE might be what I'm looking for. But there > are other options as well. Does any of this work better or is less (or > more) likely to be damaged in a way which makes it untraceable? I'm assuming > green and blue will be needed for sewer and water. > > > > I don't think the following will apply, but there is also the possibility > that at least one of the lines won't terminate at one end anywhere that we > can poke the wire up above the ground (tapping into existing line) I'm > assuming that one can resolve this by laying a ground rod in the trench and > terminating to that. > > > > Any other things I should watch for here? > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > ________________________________ > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > > > -- > > Carl Peterson > > PORT NETWORKS > > 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 > > Baltimore, MD 21202 > > (410) 637-3707 > > ________________________________ > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > ________________________________ > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > ________________________________ > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
