This is 47 CFR 1.7004:
(d) Providers shall include in each Digital Opportunity Data Collection filing a certification signed by a corporate officer of the provider that the officer has examined the information contained in the submission and that, to the best of the officer's actual knowledge, information, and belief, all statements of fact contained in the submission are true and correct. All providers also shall submit a certification of the accuracy of its submissions by a qualified engineer. The engineering certification shall state <https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=e8082d3c63609512a918f3ab77bd41dc&term_occur=999&term_src=Title:47:Chapter:I:Subchapter:A:Part:1:Subpart:V:1.7004> that the certified professional engineer or corporate engineering officer is employed by the provider and has direct knowledge of, or responsibility for, the generation of the provider's Digital Opportunity Data Collection filing. The law itself says “or corporate engineering officer….”. While the waiver itself will expire, that expiration doesn’t change the underlying law. I actually think CCA screwed this up asking for the waiver in the first place. What the waiver actually ORDERED is "that this Declaratory Ruling is ADOPTED and section 1.7004(d), 47 CFR §1.7004(d) is WAIVED to the extent indicated herein.” It doesn’t change the original statement that a corporate engineering officer can certify the filing, with or without the waiver. If your engineer has the required degree and you make them a corporate engineering officer (and I’ll let the lawyers deal with what making an employee an officer means) you still don’t need a PE to my reading. Mark > On Jul 22, 2022, at 11:45 AM, Cameron Crum <cc...@murcevilo.com> wrote: > > Yeah they are allowing that for the next 3 cycles. After that, we'll see. > > On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 10:35 AM Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net > <mailto:m...@amplex.net>> wrote: > I could get my PE but I have zero interest in relearning all of the EIT > (renamed something else now) that is part of the book exam. But to your > point - nothing in my EE had any specific relevance to what we do on a day to > day basis. Fiber was a curiosity at the time, and phased array antennas > were cutting edge. > > I still think the FCC / etc. is getting a little too hung up on the PE > requirement - I’m not convinced they actually required a state certified > Professional Engineer (Capital P) in the first place. Ohio specifically > says: > > (A) Except for an individual who, as part of the internal classification > system of the individual's employer, uses the title "engineer" by itself or > in conjunction with another term described in division (B) of this section > and who does not represent the individual's self to the public or otherwise > advertise the individual's self as an engineer, no individual shall, in > connection with the individual's name, assume, use, or advertise: > > (1) The title "engineer" by itself unless the individual is an engineer; > > (2) The title "engineer" in conjunction with another term that modifies the > title "engineer" in a manner that conveys the impression that the individual > is a graduate of an accredited engineering curriculum unless the individual > is a graduate of an accredited engineering curriculum. > > (B) Terms used in conjunction with the title "engineer" under division (A)(2) > of this section that imply a person is a graduate of an accredited > engineering curriculum include the following: "aerospace," "agricultural," > "civil," "chemical," "computer," "electrical," "industrial," "mechanics," > "mechanical," "metallurgical," "mining," "naval architectural and marine," > "nuclear," and any other term commonly used by an institution of higher > learning to apply to graduates of an accredited engineering curriculum. > > The FCC said (in the waiver) "we agree that, under the Commission’s rules, > where a mobile or fixed service provider submits a certification of the > accuracy of its broadband submissions from a “corporate engineering officer,” > the corporate engineering officer does not need to be a certified PE. We > believe that the rule would be satisfied, for example, where the corporate > officer possesses at least a Bachelor of Science (B.S.) in engineering degree > and has both “direct knowledge” of, and responsibility for, the carrier’s > network design and construction. > > To my reading I can specifically state that I am an engineer with a BSEE > acting in my capacity with the company, and not violate Ohio law in doing so. > > Mark > > > > > > >> On Jul 22, 2022, at 10:35 AM, Cameron Crum <cc...@murcevilo.com >> <mailto:cc...@murcevilo.com>> wrote: >> >> Yeah, it's a stupid requirement s most EE PEs don't know jack about wireless >> and probably less about fiber. I happen to know a couple guys who bothered >> to get their PE, but I know I never did simply because there wasn't even a >> test for what I do. They want you to take the power systems and control >> systems exam if you are an RF guy. IT really is dumb and I think they are >> just trying to weed out the smaller guys who will be forced into a financial >> hardship. >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 4:53 PM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com >> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote: >> The waiver should be made permanent. The quality of the data will not >> suffer. >> >> From: Cameron Crum <> >> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 3:47 PM >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC >> >> Understood. We can work with very small providers. We aren't trying to put >> anyone out of business. We do have some fixed costs like the PE unless you >> want to self certify. I believe you qualify, or will at least for the waiver >> on the next 3 filings. >> >> Cameron >> >> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 4:36 PM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com <>> >> wrote: >> Yes, but your solution is equivalent to my annual net profit as I am such a >> new and small company. I am complaining to the FCC penury. >> >> From: Cameron Crum <> >> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 3:23 PM >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC >> >> We have a solution for filing with PE certification at >> www.regulatorysolutions.us <http://www.regulatorysolutions.us/> if you need >> assistance. >> >> Cameron >> >> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 4:17 PM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com <>> >> wrote: >> Not a new version but a whole new other report in addition to 477 I think. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jul 21, 2022, at 2:39 PM, Jason McKemie >>> <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com <>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> I haven't been reading up on this, is this the new form 477 replacement >>> with increased requirements? >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 2:51 PM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com <>> >>> wrote: >>> “Internet access”. If I am strictly a layer 2 pipe providing transport - >>> only then I am not a provider of internet. If someone coincidentally >>> connects it to layer 3 things... well then that is outside of my control. >>> >>> From: Josh Luthman <> >>> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 1:41 PM >>> To: Chuck McCown <> >>> Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC >>> >>> >Facilities-based providers of fixed and mobile broadband internet access >>> >who have one or more end user connections in service on June 30, 2022 >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 3:35 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com <>> wrote: >>> But what types of business does it apply to? I am sure that I can find a >>> loophole. Like I deliver virtual ice cream via ethernet so it should not >>> apply to me. >>> >>> From: Josh Luthman <> >>> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 12:47 PM >>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <> >>> Cc: Chuck McCown <> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC >>> >>> Ethernet/GPON doesn't matter. It's copper versus optical delivery. :) >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 11:21 AM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com <>> >>> wrote: >>> I wonder if I can get away with being an ethernet service provider with >>> free access to the internet thrown in... >>> >>> From: Josh Luthman <> >>> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 8:33 AM >>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] BDC >>> >>> WISPA is absolutely fighting this. We absolutely did not want this. >>> There's way more opposition than WISPA has resources, but we still did get >>> some wins. >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 11:12 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <>> >>> wrote: >>> I'm sure wispa is out there looking out for us >>> That is sarcasm >>> Wispa isnt what itwas when it lived in this neighborhood >>> I feel we all need to watch brokeback mountain to prepare what's coming >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022, 6:16 PM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com <>> >>> wrote: >>> Perhaps. I am sure there will be things filed about this. >>> >>> From: Brian Webster <> >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 4:46 PM >>> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <> >>> Cc: 'Chuck McCown' <> >>> Subject: RE: [AFMUG] BDC >>> >>> Keep in mind that is a temp fix and only good for the next 18 months. Then >>> the full PE cert is required. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Brian Webster >>> >>> www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com/> >>> >>> >>> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com <>] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via >>> AF >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 5:10 PM >>> To: af@af.afmug.com <> >>> Cc: Chuck McCown >>> Subject: [AFMUG] BDC >>> >>> >>> >>> Starting to look into what I have to do. >>> >>> Just read the certification requirements. This is the language of the >>> alternate, non PE, non degreed engineer certifier: >>> >>> (ii) specialized training relevant to broadband network engineering and >>> design, deployment, and/or performance, and at least ten years of relevant >>> experience in broadband network engineering, design, and/or performance. >>> >>> >>> >>> I am guessing everyone on this list fits this set of qualifications. >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com <> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com <> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com <> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com <> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com <> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com <> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com <> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com <> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com <> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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