-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Leo,
On 11/3/14 5:05 PM, Leo Donahue wrote: > On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Christopher Schultz < > ch...@christopherschultz.net> wrote: > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 >> >> Vince, >> >> On 11/3/14 4:12 PM, vince.w...@thomsonreuters.com wrote: >>> >>> How much easier it would be if the Tomcat distribution had the >>> correct separation build in. >> >> It would be harder for newbies and no real benefit to experts. >> >> Let me show you the difference in complexity between deploying >> Tomcat with a unified versus split configuration: >> >> Unified - ------- >> >> $ wget http://host/path/to/tomcat-x.y.z.tar.gz $ tar xzf >> http://host/path/to/tomcat-x.y.z.tar.gz $ >> tomcat-x.y.z/bin/startup.sh >> > > You can do that in linux. not so well in windows. scripts work > differently. you log out of the windows session, and the script > stops, hence why every windows user wants to install Tomcat as a > service, whichever way they do that. Okay: C:\whatever> wget http://host/path/to/tomcat-x.y.z.zip C:\whatever> unzip http://host/path/to/tomcat-x.y.z.zip (or however you unzip from the CLI in Windows.. I haven't been able to figure that out, but it's clearer than giving mouse-click directions) C:\whatever> SET CATALINA_HOME=C:\whatever\apache-tomcat-x.y.z C:\whatever> SET CATALINA_BASE=C:\whatever\apache-tomcat-x.y.z C:\whatever> %CATALINA_HOME%\bin\service.bat install my-great-webapp C:\whatever> service start my-great-webapp >> Separated - --------- $ wget >> http://host/path/to/tomcat-x.y.z.tar.gz $ tar xzf >> http://host/path/to/tomcat-x.y.z.tar.gz $ mkdir -p >> my-tomcat-base/conf $ mkdir -p my-tomcat-base/log $ mkdir -p >> my-tomcat-base/work $ mkdir -p my-tomcat-base/temp $ mkdir -p >> my-tomcat-base/webapps $ cp tomcat-x.y.z/conf/server.xml >> my-tomcat-base/conf $ cp tomcat-x.y.z/conf/web.xml >> my-tomcat-base/conf (the above step may not actually be >> necessary) $ cp tomcat-x.y.z/webapps/ROOT my-tomcat-base/webapps >> $ export CATALINA_HOME=`pwd`/tomcat-x.y.z $ export >> CATALINA_BASE=`pwd`/my-tomcat-base $ >> $CATALINA_HOME/bin/startup.sh For Windowers: C:\whatever> wget http://host/path/to/tomcat-x.y.z.zip C:\whatever> unzip http://host/path/to/tomcat-x.y.z.zip (or however you unzip from the CLI in Windows.. I haven't been able to figure that out, but it's clearer than giving mouse-click directions) C:\whatever> mkdir my-tomcat-base/conf C:\whatever> mkdir my-tomcat-base/log C:\whatever> mkdir my-tomcat-base/work C:\whatever> mkdir my-tomcat-base/temp C:\whatever> mkdir my-tomcat-base/webapps C:\whatever> SET CATALINA_HOME=C:\whatever\apache-tomcat-x.y.z C:\whatever> SET CATALINA_BASE=C:\whatever\my-tomcat-base C:\whatever> %CATALINA_HOME%\bin\service.bat install my-great-webapp C:\whatever> service start my-great-webapp (All this from memory... apologies if those exact commands don't work.) >> Done. >> >> So, that's not all that complicated when you think about it, but >> to ask someone who knows nothing about a command-line, working >> effectively in an operating system, etc. and only knows about >> programming in Java -- maybe only servlet programming in Java -- >> to configure the server in the split case is confusing as all >> hell. >> >> Anyone downloading a ZIP or tar archive containing a Tomcat >> installation would be confused if the archive contained not one >> but two top-level directories. Also, it would overwrite your >> split-configuration if you unpacked that archive in the same >> directory as when you first started. >> >> An installer program would have to explain what in the world the >> split configuration was. Have you ever tried to tell someone how >> to set up their email? POP versus IMAP? Most users have >> absolutely no idea what that is, and mail programs give no clue >> as to which one to choose. The same would be true of >> CATALINA_HOME versus CATALINA_BASE. > > > Everything has some degree of learning. New people are trying to > learn two things at once, how something works as well as the "why > do it this way" conventions that experienced users have > implemented. New users don't understand the convention and want to > learn it the hard way first before they can appreciate or even > understand the convention. Agreed. The point I'm trying to make is that experts are experts because they have learned. Peeling-back the covers of Tomcat reveals those expert features like a split configuration. Being forced to use a split-configuration because "it's what experts do" is one sure way to generate a lot of noise on this mailing list. >> (Besides, I truly doubt that any expert system administrators are >> using the Tomcat Windows Installer to install/upgrade their >> systems. Maybe I'm wrong, >> > > You had qualify that with 'expert'... now I have nothing more to > add. > > >> but then again I can't imagine running a Windows server in >> production. >> > > This too shall pass... > > >> I value my sleep and prefer to build new things instead of >> holding together configurations with chewing gum and duct tape. >> Oh, and rebooting all the time.) >> >> Anyhow, we can debate this all you want, but I will be -0 or even >> -1 to a default split-configuration of Tomcat unless someone has >> a really good idea for how to make it make sense to anyone on >> their first-touch. >> >> - -chris >> > > I would rather just point (windows) people to an example of a > split configuration or any other configuration and let them > implement it if they choose to do so, instead of getting Tomcat > pre-configured. Part of the draw to Tomcat is that you have > flexibility with how you choose to run it (script, service, windows > installer, etc) +1 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJUWATAAAoJEBzwKT+lPKRY974QAIaebAUpO4H6v9A/M5/iMWsY 3W70xqmXyrs7IgyBSxeRE/TAn0HgDsSw3/jJEjNn3tZ0a8Du2KU0LxpXtC1BhdMe XUqFwMvfeQ8tSqbTX0qXSUpFwXhpR8gJTzN0oWY608iBerZ4xXHEeticj/TuDTpZ S8o573iFINnJ6V+QCTxRGe7D2LG1mDD8NoGPgN5lHdGCVNWuWhDdmegmhhZ6O994 lcWulEgbHIVuh8u2DdNdL12RabtO7NUu1k7UKongmKpgQQMagace89OGMAoHRkYZ YelgwEMK7yYOvbPkxt9QpvYvY1Dqo6aXEWawW4GMRmjLHYN7Qy0bXDURbhjODO6d gFRyyIvzRgrvOFM72OV5rSFnjoON41vmXc6cWsz23ITkkiWFvgJ5lcT0pljcQ/P1 PKv2wT7xxgOhPfZHhTCSYkJ8ZQDApPxMMOxGwI5kOSsRWEVt4ALh0k8Kv0sd36WF 1hpC/nfwPRwBW7xP+4ZVfafJiFViodFcn/jSztCQmcvPjtJmFL0Dssg8TdVYq0kp eGMAPdpH3zyddktlWZsOR9YM8LK082reOQ7K8V72qFbQU+JQWr8GtV7icBPxPGDZ ggJJ6m5lyNR8XilGR2+1I/147BJ5tXAZrHfH2LtZSg+QR85l5dZjuo8DjBvv8l1K 0FFPP78XexZkKqqWgpfX =Kqab -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
