-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Vince,
On 11/3/14 4:12 PM, vince.w...@thomsonreuters.com wrote: > Even Tomcat newbies have to do real work that will find its way to > a real server. > > Either of the benefits you described as a) and b) mean > CATALINA_HOME and CATALINA_BASE need to be separate on a real > server. > > I would rather get it straight from the outset rather than mess > about with a configuration that is going nowhere. Separating a unified Tomcat deployment into CATALINA_HOME and CATALINA_BASE is pretty trivial. Your configuration isn't "going nowhere". Do you know what's worse than a simple configuration to start that can grow into a complex one? One that is so complex you can't even get started. Have you ever configured Weblogic? There is (or was, back in circa 2001 when I had the misfortune of working on that platform) no such thing as "unzip and run bin/startup.sh to launch the server". No, you basically had to go and get trained (at a high cost, by corporate trainers, of course) to do anything at all with the darned thing. If you want to talk about a configuration that is going nowhere, anything that is automatically done by Eclipse, NetBeans, etc. is not going anywhere. > NetBeans separates out CATALINA_HOME and CATALINA_BASE, either > automatically making its own decisions about the content of > CATALINA_BASE or manually by allowing you to specify your own hand > crafted directory. > > I just made the switch from letting NetBeans populate > CATALINA_BASE, to doing it myself. Naturally I want to avoid having > the same files appear in both directories so I went for minimal > content. > > How much easier it would be if the Tomcat distribution had the > correct separation build in. It would be harder for newbies and no real benefit to experts. Let me show you the difference in complexity between deploying Tomcat with a unified versus split configuration: Unified - ------- $ wget http://host/path/to/tomcat-x.y.z.tar.gz $ tar xzf http://host/path/to/tomcat-x.y.z.tar.gz $ tomcat-x.y.z/bin/startup.sh Woot! Separated - --------- $ wget http://host/path/to/tomcat-x.y.z.tar.gz $ tar xzf http://host/path/to/tomcat-x.y.z.tar.gz $ mkdir -p my-tomcat-base/conf $ mkdir -p my-tomcat-base/log $ mkdir -p my-tomcat-base/work $ mkdir -p my-tomcat-base/temp $ mkdir -p my-tomcat-base/webapps $ cp tomcat-x.y.z/conf/server.xml my-tomcat-base/conf $ cp tomcat-x.y.z/conf/web.xml my-tomcat-base/conf (the above step may not actually be necessary) $ cp tomcat-x.y.z/webapps/ROOT my-tomcat-base/webapps $ export CATALINA_HOME=`pwd`/tomcat-x.y.z $ export CATALINA_BASE=`pwd`/my-tomcat-base $ $CATALINA_HOME/bin/startup.sh Done. So, that's not all that complicated when you think about it, but to ask someone who knows nothing about a command-line, working effectively in an operating system, etc. and only knows about programming in Java -- maybe only servlet programming in Java -- to configure the server in the split case is confusing as all hell. Anyone downloading a ZIP or tar archive containing a Tomcat installation would be confused if the archive contained not one but two top-level directories. Also, it would overwrite your split-configuration if you unpacked that archive in the same directory as when you first started. An installer program would have to explain what in the world the split configuration was. Have you ever tried to tell someone how to set up their email? POP versus IMAP? Most users have absolutely no idea what that is, and mail programs give no clue as to which one to choose. The same would be true of CATALINA_HOME versus CATALINA_BASE. (Besides, I truly doubt that any expert system administrators are using the Tomcat Windows Installer to install/upgrade their systems. Maybe I'm wrong, but then again I can't imagine running a Windows server in production. I value my sleep and prefer to build new things instead of holding together configurations with chewing gum and duct tape. Oh, and rebooting all the time.) Anyhow, we can debate this all you want, but I will be -0 or even -1 to a default split-configuration of Tomcat unless someone has a really good idea for how to make it make sense to anyone on their first-touch. - -chris -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJUV/STAAoJEBzwKT+lPKRYwq0QAJis//26ab34xcdAbs1Ths8I 0D4XWjh8cNv+QqvexftR8atf+2mN4NCukeHe95CF7AT0GVF0hd/z6irzRp32OXVd gg8nQkn4u+OjzHC2aCDSHGTDvg2/rkf1RdKqSD84pooB56d6hysMszCdHVZNFKHY 6SCOIFcwiVE/iiaLmV39uyT5tgcMQyAVZ0g9xym3tJHT8pXiFQ4pKZQKxnl4PBhx ob+l1ksb4gaekFV/WIQEr9HLS73FLcHr9rk0VtsM+4HiE8t2XacYKXveewShWXUX +kaFD0Udb5VCqlqMRKKZKw2a9kOh2XYGI7C+itYBHVRUXtW//jtwd2G6fje+5Siz phSB+aq6kHK2iEF4ZxGQ2asqCFrCCBWPfMtrrWScKHrPVYj7suAcLpfk2oaFksGD BER8LT8WRi35L9VbemNMfFPCSFFEyP2Ej7Xa09ZdS4jqd1O8m8ZsWxHDW5JbYL2s bcffVeHhZvglyKHfcciCYzSDdFprsI0qglFgVtRy/E35Gn6FkyS23npHl1zeehhy J/2a/4STTexpMZtC2e1E5nDb+/m3qAn9SkBYW5IxeU9jrYBx1aQeZqt2TxCj4Kt9 GAD5gf3FvX0sAs5UnNNQTe4gf++euhnc8OX5a3CieUxGDb+eRUnRzsdAElpe0Aff f++0GKikRzyyYdRXIxna =+BXM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
