Chris, Leo, Vince, On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 5:42 PM, Christopher Schultz < ch...@christopherschultz.net> wrote:
>> So, that's not all that complicated when you think about it, but > >> to ask someone who knows nothing about a command-line, working > >> effectively in an operating system, etc. and only knows about > >> programming in Java -- maybe only servlet programming in Java -- > >> to configure the server in the split case is confusing as all > >> hell. > +1 > >> > >> Anyone downloading a ZIP or tar archive containing a Tomcat > >> installation would be confused if the archive contained not one > >> but two top-level directories. Also, it would overwrite your > >> split-configuration if you unpacked that archive in the same > >> directory as when you first started. > +1 >> An installer program would have to explain what in the world the > >> split configuration was. Have you ever tried to tell someone how > >> to set up their email? POP versus IMAP? Most users have > >> absolutely no idea what that is, and mail programs give no clue > >> as to which one to choose. The same would be true of > >> CATALINA_HOME versus CATALINA_BASE. > > > > > > Everything has some degree of learning. New people are trying to > > learn two things at once, how something works as well as the "why > > do it this way" conventions that experienced users have > > implemented. New users don't understand the convention and want to > > learn it the hard way first before they can appreciate or even > > understand the convention. > > Agreed. The point I'm trying to make is that experts are experts > because they have learned. Peeling-back the covers of Tomcat reveals > those expert features like a split configuration. Being forced to use > a split-configuration because "it's what experts do" is one sure way > to generate a lot of noise on this mailing list. > +1 > >> I value my sleep and prefer to build new things instead of > >> holding together configurations with chewing gum and duct tape. > >> Oh, and rebooting all the time.) > >> > >> Anyhow, we can debate this all you want, but I will be -0 or even > >> -1 to a default split-configuration of Tomcat unless someone has > >> a really good idea for how to make it make sense to anyone on > >> their first-touch. > >> > >> - -chris > >> > > > > I would rather just point (windows) people to an example of a > > split configuration or any other configuration and let them > > implement it if they choose to do so, instead of getting Tomcat > > pre-configured. Part of the draw to Tomcat is that you have > > flexibility with how you choose to run it (script, service, windows > > installer, etc) > > +1 > > +1 Vince, the current configuration works great: 1) If you are a newbie administrator you are going to use "easy-to-use-newbie-friendly" configuration. It will get you started, it will get your application working, etc... Great starting point. 2) If you are developer (newbie or expert) and using IDE (Eclipse, Netbeans, IntelliJ) - you are going to use out-of-box tomcat configuration. Single Tomcat instance, no-split configuration. 3) If you are administrator that is upgrading Tomcat, you will just create a process to configure your instance with new Tomcat binaries and copy over the configuration file (most of the stuff is backwards compatible in server.xml within the point-version) + add any shared libraries to new tomcat/lib folder (JDBC drivers, etc...). Again, single-tomcat instance, no-split configuration necessary. Although, may people do like to split for "easier" upgrades and separation of concerns. 4) If you are administrator that is managing multi-instance environment, you can still get away with copying standard out-of-box Tomcat directory over and over again, for each instance separately. The hassle would be to do the upgrades on many instances. That's why we have CATALINA_HOME for shared stuff (binaries+libraries) and CATALINA_BASE for instance-specific configuration. And in this case you would know about the split directory setup option and would research how to do that effectively. My question is - why do you use CATALINA_BASE if you are using IDE (Netbeans)? If you are developer, there is no need to use split configuration. SLIGHTLY-OFFTOPIC: Although, I would love to see out-of-box setup for additional shared-lib folder, something other than TOMCAT/lib with Tomcat default libraries. Essentially, I would love to separate my customer shared libraries from Tomcat default libraries. I guess - question would be where are CATALINA_HOME/lib JAR files being loaded from? Can we add another directory to scan for libraries to be loaded? Is that configurable? Cheers! Neven
