On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 13:17, pjssi...@gmail.com <pjssi...@gmail.com> wrote: > Dear Adrian, > > On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 6:31 AM, Adrian Maier <syra...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Wow , that's a shocking suggestion : in order to see what's >> available I need to start an application. >> And this is supposed to be a progress compared to the old-style >> desktop environments that can display a quick list of categories >> without external software. > > The Dash is part of Unity just like the "Application menu" is part of > Gnome 2.
> From the user point of view there isn't a new application to open. What do you mean by that ? >> I'd really like to understand the rationale against the idea of having >> some sort of applications browser that is usable like an old-style >> Applications menu : see a list of categories and be able to see >> the contents of a category WITHOUT clicking on anything. >> > > You still have an application browser, the only difference, as you > said, is that you need to click on the categories, instead of just > moving the mouse. It's more than that : it's also a problem with how the results are displayed. After clicking on a category it shows only one row of applications . In order to see all of them i have to click on "see more N results" . This gives me a constant feeling that "probably there are more things in there that i don't know about " . The "Apps available for Download" are eating much too space. And as a result the user is forced to "See more results" after every filter search . >> Please believe me that in gnome2 or xfce I use the apps menu a lot . >> It's easy enough so that i rarely feel the need to create shortcuts >> on a panel. Every application has it's own well defined place inside >> the menu. >> > > Here is the key for your discomfort. You are used to open your > applications using the menu and did not like the idea of typing the > name (or description) in the Dash. One of the main characteristics of > the Dash, IMHO, is that the best way to find an application using it > is by typing Super+"name or description of the application" instead of > using the mouse until pointing the right place. You should give it a > try, it is much faster than using a mouse and you'll get much faster > after one of two days. If you insist on using only the mouse, than the > Dash is certainly not a good choice for you. The source of discomfort is that navigating around applications categories is clunky . Let's imagine that the user clicks on a category (even though in a classic apps menu it's enough to hover) . After clicking i don't immediately see the entire list of application is that category ! The screen is cluttered with: recent results , "see more N results" , and "apps available to download" . This is like a click-click puzzle game with colourful icons , not efficient browsing . The first version of the Unity (the netbook remix 10.10 if i remember correctly) used to present the applications in a nicer way : there was a big list with all the applications divided into categories . It required some scrolling , but was better than what i see now in 12.04. At least I could quickly form an idea about what application are installed ! >> Hmm... perhaps this is what irritates me about searching/filtering >> in the Dash : when using these filters there is too much visual >> noise (huge icons , see more 666 results , apps available for >> download ) and a particular application will never appear in the >> same place on the screen . >> The visual clutter gives me a constant feeling that I never know >> what's available for use . > > But 99% of the time you know exactly what you want to open. You know > you want to open firefox, or thunderbird (or e-mail application), or > Writter, or emacs. Just time its name, it is fast and usually you'll > get a single option after 3 or for letters. When installing a new version of an operating system, it's interesting to look around and see what new applications are available by default . The Dash doesn't offer a comfortable solution for discovering (browsing) what's available . It's a fancy-looking search that requires 3D graphic acceleration , nothing more . Oh, and by the way : when filtering for "All" applications , the results don't display the categories anymore . > Where I think the Dash fails is for people that can't really type. I > have two children, one is 5 and the other one is 8. The one with 5 > learned to recognize the word "Game" from the old Gnome 2 menu and > then to click on it (or hover ) to see the list of games. Now with the > Dash he needs first to click on "Filter" (and this does not seem > natural all for him). It would be nice to be able to have the list of > categories always open as an option. > > best, > > Paulo > > >> >>> Now, neither piece may yet be ideal, but we should improve the design of >>> those pieces for their specific purposes, not try to make everything do >>> everything. >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> >>> On 22/02/12 15:29, Adrian Maier wrote: >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 17:19, nick rundy<nru...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> The problem is having to "expand" options, like the "See more results" >>>>> option. Too much stuff is being crammed into the dash. >>>>> >>>>> For example, on the Applications Lens, users should be able to use >>>>> setting >>>>> to configure it so that it ONLY shows the applications installed on the >>>>> machine. And by default shows ALL results. This way the user doesn't have >>>>> to >>>>> click so many things to get an expanded view of Applications. Also the >>>>> filters should not have to be expanded (which I believe is the case in >>>>> 12.04) >>>>> >>>>> @Adrian: >>>>> >>>>> if the Applications Lens defaults to show all stuff by default, then >>>>> Unity >>>>> is just as convenient as old-GNOME. >>>>> >>>>> 1. tap SUPER+A >>>>> 2. click GAMES >>>> >>>> That sounds like just a workaround for solving a problem that didn't >>>> exist before changing something that used to work well enough ... >>>> >>>> If there is a big list with all the applications , it implies >>>> scrolling in order to find the category and then finding the >>>> application. Too much visual noise for getting done a simple thing. >>>> >>>> I really mean that the right solution is to have a real classic menu / >>>> list view . >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:39:36 +0200 >>>>>> From: syra...@gmail.com >>>>>> To: unity-design@lists.launchpad.net >>>>>> Subject: [Unity-design] Some impressions about the current status of >>>>>> Unity >>>>>> Hello people, >>>>>> >>>>>> Today I've been curious to see what is the current status of Unity >>>>>> compared to the version shipped last year with 11.04. >>>>>> So i've installed the Ubuntu daily beta 12.04 in a virtual machine . >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The main thing I would like to comment about is : navigation around >>>>>> the available applications . >>>>>> >>>>>> I have chosen a simple task : " let's see what games are installed >>>>>> " . Steps : >>>>>> - CLICK on "ubuntu button" >>>>>> - looking for the word "categories" on screen. Couldn't find it. >>>>>> Finally figured out that "Filter results" might help with my task >>>>>> - CLICK on Filter Results >>>>>> - CLICK on Games >>>>>> - it displays : Aislerot Solitaire , Freecell Solitaire , Mahjongg , >>>>>> Mines >>>>>> - hmm. Are there just 4 games installed ? apparently not - there >>>>>> is a link "See 1 more result" >>>>>> - CLICK on "see 1 more result". >>>>>> >>>>>> The next task "now let's see what development software is installed" . >>>>>> Steps : >>>>>> - the screen is still showing the previous screen with the games . >>>>>> - CLICK on Developer in "filter results" >>>>>> - nothing changes in the search results ! >>>>>> - CLICK on Games , to deselect >>>>>> - the Developer software finally >>>>>> >>>>>> Result : after 6 clicks I have been able to see what games and what >>>>>> development tools are installed by default in 12.04 beta . >>>>>> Too big icons , on a normal display there will always be necessary >>>>>> to click on "see more N results". >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Now let's see the steps needed to do the same tasks in Ubuntu 10.04 , >>>>>> gnome 2 : >>>>>> - CLICK on "ubuntu button" >>>>>> - move the mouse over "Games" . Read the list of applications. >>>>>> - move the mouse over "Programming" . Read the list of applications. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sorry for ranting , but killing productivity for visual cuteness is >>>>>> not progress ... >>>>>> It should be possible to have a classical menu with applications >>>>>> categories (maybe on right-click on the desktop). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> My personal conclusion : the current Unity is just as disappointing >>>>>> as last year. >>>>>> Starting an application multiple times seems to be handled ok now >>>>>> (useful particularly for terminals). >>>>>> But there is still zero configurability (in settings -> appearance >>>>>> the user can only change the wallpaper and autohide the launcher . >>>>>> Quite hilarious in a sad way ) . >>>>>> No possibility to disable the global menu . >>>>>> My main showstopper : no classic applications menu. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Adrian >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~unity-design >>>>>> Post to : unity-design@lists.launchpad.net >>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~unity-design >>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Adrian M >> >> -- >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~unity-design >> Post to : unity-design@lists.launchpad.net >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~unity-design >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > > -- > Paulo José da Silva e Silva > Professor Associado, Dep. de Ciência da Computação > (Associate Professor, Computer Science Dept.) > Universidade de São Paulo - Brazil > > e-mail: pjssi...@ime.usp.br Web: http://www.ime.usp.br/~pjssilva -- Adrian M -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~unity-design Post to : unity-design@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~unity-design More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
