On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 15:36, Jo-Erlend Schinstad <joerlend.schins...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 23. feb. 2012 12:27, Adrian Maier wrote: >> >> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 00:55, Jo-Erlend Schinstad >> <joerlend.schins...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> On 22. feb. 2012 23:13, Adrian Maier wrote: >>>> >>>> The classic gnome2 menu is so efficient that I don't feel the need to >>>> create shortcuts for applications ... That's why i find it extremely >>>> productive . >>> >>> There is nothing "Gnome 2" about the classic desktop. It's exactly the >>> same >>> in Gnome Panel 3. >> >> I am mentioning Gnome2 because I haven't seen Gnome3 yet . >> Ubuntu is still my preferred distribution , and Gnome3 is not >> available in the >> versions that i currently use ... > > > Ubuntu switched to Gnome 3 partially in 11.04, more completely in 11.10, and > further in Precise. > A couple of screenshots of Gnome 3 in 11.10: > > Adding an applet: http://ubuntuone.com/0FQKR9MBQp5lMTgtg3jRg5 > Using menus: http://ubuntuone.com/1LjAMTsvApITscaUGxWNp1 > > From all your posts, that seems to be exactly what you want. I wrote before > that this is not called Gnome 2. It is called Gnome Panel, which is > available in Gnome 1, 2 and 3. If this is indeed your vision of the future, > then that's fine. Use it, contribute to it and be happy. It's not the vision > of Unity. The very easiest way you can contribute you it, is to stop > referring to it as "Gnome 2", because that implies that there's something > Gnome 2 specific about it, which is not true.
> If indeed you're using Precise, then just install the package called > gnome-panel: http://apt.ubuntu.com/p/gnome-panel. Then, the next time you > login, choose the classic session. You will then have a desktop that is > pretty much identical to the desktop in 10.04. And though I haven't tried, > I'm pretty sure you should be able to add the Unity 2D launcher and dash to > it if you wanted to. I obviously had no idea about the possibility to start this gnome-panel inside Unity . Thanks for the tip ! >> In fact i think that the problem is that the current implementation >> doesn't offer some kind of middle ground : >> >> - search is good when you know exactly the name of an application > > > Then "web" should never return the default web browser and "mail" should not > return your email client, etc? That wouldn't make any kind of sense if the > goal is to make sure that searches is only useful if you have the precise > name. I don't understand why that should ever be a goal. You know, there was > a time when the web didn't use search engines, but hierarchical menus. The > claim that searches require you to use exact phrases, obviously isn't true. > Otherwise, searches would never have replaced directories on the web. > > >> >> - the current Dash is good for the complete newbie who has lots of >> time to look around . Needs to be shown pretty big icons. Needs to >> be informed that there are tons of additional apps . >> >> But what about the users who are already familiar with Linux and Ubuntu ? > > If the icons are made smaller, then there's no space to have text. I've used > Gnome since 1999 and Ubuntu since November 2005. Is it my experience you're > worried about? Please don't. To me, Unity is the easiest and most efficient > desktop I've ever used. > > >> >> >> I might become happy with the Dash if I were given the chance to >> customize it a bit : >> - select a small icons size >> - disable the Apps available for Download > > You mean such as unselecting the online scope in the applications lens? I mean : hiding the "apps available for download" > >> - select a preference that i want to always see all results ( >> disable "see more N results " ) . >> - specify how many "recently used" items i'd like to see > > Then you have two choices; accept that your dash will be extremely slow, or > make sure you cannot find all your stuff. Which do you prefer? I prefer the > third choice; limit the number of entries displayed by default and enable me > to find anything. I prefer the fourth choice : that it remembers that i have expanded the "see more ". And keep that screen section expanded for the next searches, until i click "see fewer results" . >> >> I really don't need to have half of the screen occupied with >> applications suggested to be installed. I know how to install >> software . > > Then just disable that. It isn't exactly difficult if you're looking for > solutions instead of looking for things to complain about. > >>> Why? You have to explain these things. Simply stating that a single >>> column >>> is more efficient than a grid, makes no sense. >> >> >> 1. Moving from one category to another is possible by hovering the >> mouse . I consider this more comfortable and easy. > > Yes. That is a big problem with the old menus that's been known for decades. > It is difficult to use for new users since it requires advanced mouse > skills. People with reduced fine muscle movement, such as patients with > Parkinsons decease will have terrible problems since a small movement will > move you into a different category. It is difficult to use if you have > reduced vision. Etc. > > >> >> 2. All the applications are visible immediately in a category. You >> don't need to click on "see more results" . > > > Yes, in the age of web apps, for instance, this is a perfect solution. > Imagine having a thousand entries in the Internet category. > > >> >> 3. Smaller icons means that more items fit on the screen . > > > That is not necessarily true. It is only a single column, which means you > use a much smaller part of your screen. With Unity, on the other hand, you > use the entire screen. > > >> >> 4. A compact view means less scrolling and less click on "see more >> results" . This is a good thing. > No, using a single column instead of a grid means more scrolling. >> 5. Did i mention that with a classic menu there is no need to click a >> "see more results" ? > > > You did. You need to scroll instead. And loading a thousand icons still > takes time using a "classic menu". > >>>> Also, I still claim that any application can be started with exactly 2 >>>> clicks. >>>> This is very handy if you know the category. >>> >>> The number of clicks isn't as important as the time it takes to figure >>> out >>> where to click. >> >> Exactly : in gnome2 / xfce i can see quickly see the categories >> and the applications inside the category . >> It's a compact view that can be navigated based on mouse hover . > > Again; it is not called gnome2. It is called Gnome Panel. It has always been > available, has never been removed and if you prefer it, you should use it. > This is not the idea of Unity. If you prefer to use Gnome Panel, then just > use it. It will never make sense to try and push the old work flow onto a > different product. You should either adapt to the Unity workflow, or keep > using Gnome Panel or some other "classic" environment. I am quite certain that last summer (when I have tried Unity in 11.04) i did not come across the possibiity to do that . And Ubuntu 11.04 wasn't released with Gnome3 . >>>> But there is a strong repelling attitude against such features. However >>>> this >>>> resistance doesn't make enough sense : I am not suggesting to remove >>>> the existing "solution". It's about _adding_ a feature . >>> >>> Yes, and you are not the only user. You speak as if adding features have >>> no >>> consequences. > > >> Why does bother you so much the existence of a classical apps menu ? >> I am not suggesting it be forced upon everyone . I am NOT suggesting >> that the Dash >> should be removed. > > It is extremely rude to twist other peoples words like that. I've never ever > expressed any kind of misgivings about the classic menu. Quite the contrary. > I've spent large amounts of time working advocating for keeping it. That's > not the same as using it as a default in Unity. There were some misunderstandings here . It was never my intention to suggest changing anything in the defaults. All that I wanted was some sort of button or menu or 'something' that would display a classic apps menu. Not enabled by default : only have the possibility to enable it within Unity . And in your last email you have whispered the information that it's possible to enable the gnome panel. Excellent information . Many thanks for it .... > This was from a private email you sent me where you claimed that > right-clicking on the desktop should display the menus you want. My response > was that if all users should have menus for everything they wanted in the > desktop by default, it would mean an extremely large menu, which would make > it extremely difficult to use. This was an effort to explain why simply > "_adding_ a feature" is not without consequences. I am fully aware that the Dash would not be replaced with something else in the near future. So I have mentioned the idea of right-click on the desktop because it felt less intrusive . It was just a possibility I have mentioned the idea of having such a menu displayed >>> If we add all features that any user on the internet wants, >>> then you'll have a desktop menu with thousands of entries. You're the >>> very >>> first person I've seen to ask for this. >> >> I don't know how many users would like to have a classic apps menu in >> addition to the Dash . >> >> And you don't know it either. > > > The difference is that I know that you can easily add it if you want it. You > would also know this if you had asked for it, instead of being angry that > you can't. > Here's an example for you: http://ubuntuone.com/0X1JuF6HRTwEb5U1JyIk1D > > > This has nothing at all to do with Gnome 2. It has to do with Gnome Panel, > which is just as available in Gnome 3 as it is in Gnome 2. If it's > identical, then how can it be less customizable? > > >> I can't comment about Gnome3 because i didn't try yet due to >> Canonical's decision to develop from scratch its own desktop >> experience ... > > > I told you before, Ubuntu uses Gnome 3 by default. If you've tried Unity, > you have also tried Gnome 3. And if Canonical makes a product, that means > you cannot use other products? I don't understand that. It's not as if Unity > has removed the old application menu or anything like that. But isn't the inclusion of gnome3 something relatively new - maybe 11.10 ? I had the feeling that Ubuntu 11.04 was released with gnome2 . There are even various howtos about "how to install gnome 3 in ubuntu 11.04" . >> By "panels" i am referring to those areas that can be placed on the >> screen edges and where I can add launchers, window list , >> notifications, clock, drawers, and tons of other stuff. Gnome2 >> and Xfce4 support such panels. Unity doesn't . > > Of course it does. Why do you make such claims? If you don't know something, > then ask. And you keep referring to it as Gnome 2, which is complete > nonsense since Gnome 3 is identical in this regard. The name is Gnome Panel. > Not Gnome 2. It is completely usable with Unity. It always has been. I would > recommend that you spend some time on http://AskUbuntu.com. Fewer claims, > more questions. If it is a well-known fact that the Gnome panel is usable easily in Unity , how is it possible that nobody did hit me with that information immediately after i've begun to talk about how much i'm missing the classic apps menu ? I had to irritate you a bit before you whispered the suggestion to start the gnome-panel . I've just tried it and it indeed works : now i have "Applications" and "Places" in the top left corner of the screen . This is perfect : I would probably set to autohide the bottom bar , because all that i wished was to have the old apps menu "somewhere" on the screen . Many Thanks ! Adrian -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~unity-design Post to : unity-design@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~unity-design More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
