Given the split in opinions, I started thinking harder on an American usages page and wondered what other countries might use it. Now I'm wondering who wrote the features pages descriptions and got them wrong. I speculate that it was not an English-speaking country native.
Using the Toronto Canada business directories as a source and visiting many business and reviews webpages: Under the Bakeries listings - shops that carry cakes, cookies, or pastries outnumber the shops that carry bread, cakes, cookies, and pastries. Very few shops specialize in bread only. Subcategory listings Pastry Shops, Cookies. Canadians seem comfortable putting cakes in the Pastry category but not cookies. Many webpages did distinguish between cakes and pastries. It was very clear that pastries and confections are considered different things. Businesses with "Bakery" in the name followed the same split as the business listings - places that sold bread only were a small minority. Using the Sydney Australia business pages and visiting many business and reviews webpages: The listing is typically Bakers (not Bakeries). Baker shops with cake and pastries outnumber those with bread, cake and pastries, which outnumber those selling bread alone. Subcategory listings "Cake and Pastry Shops", Pizzas, "Pies, Pasties and Sausage Rolls". The directories also allowed businesses to advertise product types. Pastry and cakes are distinct. Meat pies are very popular. Banana bread is popular enough to earn a products listing. Confections and pastries are different things. Businesses that used "Bakery" in the name were more likely not to sell bread, and those selling only bread were a small minority. Using the United Kingdom and London business directories and a number of business and reviews webpages. The listing in some is Retail Bakers, in others it is Bakery.. Baker shops featuring cakes, baker shops featuring sandwiches, and baker shops featuring bread and other products far outnumber the bread only shops. Subcategory listings "Birthday Cakes", "Wedding Cakes", Cupcakes, Sandwiches, "Christening Cakes" Webpages took more work as it was less common for a listed business to have its own webpage than in the previous countries or the U.S. though reviews of a business were common. "Bakery" is very commonly used in business names, but is a poor indicator of where to buy bread. They are more likely to be a cake or sandwich shop. (Sweet) Pastries are often a subcategory of cakes. When not a subcategory of cakes, they most often have meat in them. Confections and (sweet) pastries are different things. The term favours sometimes included confections and was used in its place It was interesting I did not encounter the subcategory listing "Bread". I speculate it may be missing because the bread-only specializing bakeries are so few. Bread was sometimes used in the names of bread specializing bakeries in the other countries, but not nearly as much as in the U.S. So, based on the way retail bakeries in the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, and the United States categorize themselves, advertise themselves, name themselves and the way locals review and search for them; the OSM features webpage should be changed in two ways: 1) Pastries should definitely not be listed as a product of shop=confectionery. 2) A more correct definition for shop=bakery is "selling cakes, pastries, pies and bread" -- or tongue in cheek: "selling cakes, pastries, pies and sometimes bread, but rarely bread alone" Since we currently have the state where the shop=bakery and shop=confectionery descriptions are ill suited for many of the English Speaking countries and their resident taggers and users I would advocate for changes in the description of shop=confectionery and shop=bakery as above and the introduction of subcategories of bakery. Since shop=bakery is clearly a better choice for a cake shop or pastry shop or one that sells many bakery product types, I wonder if Bakery_good:bread=yes or bread=yes added to shop=bakery would be less disruptive than shop=bread. I would expect taggers from the the mentioned countries to quickly use shop=bread for their local bread bakeries and change any previously entered shop=bakery for such shops. I know I would.Then the success of a European visiting these countries in finding artisan bread by visiting a shop=bakery icon becomes zero; as opposed to a possible, but small, chance of success now or if bread=yes is brought into use. Question: I've seen subtags of style bread=yes and bakery_good:bread=yes, but have found no guidance on which is preferred when. Is there any guidance or is it just the preference of the one proposing it? Murry
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