| On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer < dieterdre...@gmail.com> wrote: | | I do agree that there are probably big cultural differences in this area and that in some parts of the world | | these would all be considered bakeries, but around here and also in Germany like in Austria pastry shops | (pâtisserie) won't sell you bread (as long as they aren't both, a "Bäckerei" and a "Konditorei"). I would | prefer to have a distinct shop tag and not rely on a second tag like cuisine.
Perhaps there is also a misunderstanding of language, where the terms in other languages are being connected to the similar but wrong English word. I'll point to wikipedia, which is often used as an authority by OSM, where confectionery includes candy (sweets), chocolates, and ice cream but does not include baked goods: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confectionery whereas pastries are pies <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pie>, tarts, quiches<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiche>, croissants, <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croissant> and pasties, that is generally but not always sweet baked goods,: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastry The wikipedia entries align very well with what I think of when I hear the terms. There is a general meaning of the word confection that would include all desserts, frivolous writings, and some decorative clothing, but I would never call a pastry shop a confectionery as the common audience would never understand (at least I believe in most the US) . As far as regional or American versus British English, call a garbage can a waste basket (waste basket generally means a small indoor container next to the desk in the US) and I can make the connection, but a pastry is only very rarely found at a confectionery here and when it is, they advertise it as a pastry not a confection. As an aside, here the word confectionery would never be commonly used in casual conversation for any shop but is understood to mean a chocolate or candy store when encountered. So for the solution and assuming we wish to distinguish types, what do we tag a shop that sells: only cakes? only cupcakes? only wedding cakes? only cookies (British biscuit I believe)? only pies? only turnovers, cream puffs, strudels, danishes, tarts, coffee cakes, or sweet rolls? (what I most closely connect to the word pastries) Shops that specialize these ways are very common in the US and most people here would start with bakery in a directory (or legend) as a place to find them. It seems a bigger mess if your audience avoids your product because they consider it misleading when they have used it. I view confectionery as unsuitable for all of these, and pastry mostly suitable for only the last. I suppose separate terms for each type of shop or bakery with sub tags would work for me. Also interesting would be quick bread and sweet yeast bread shops. Banana bread and stollen are more likely to be found in a "bakery" that sells pastries than one that sells (regular?) bread here. My guess is that this won't be agreeable, and I'm also opposing it, right > now the wiki says a "Konditorei"/pâtisserie should be tagged as > "confectionery", if we moved this now to bakery it would be an awful mess > ;-) > > cheers, > Martin > > The OSM wiki (and database) can be wrong and I assume should be fixed (perhaps over time or by a bot) even if it causes messes. Of course, the group decides if this is something that needs correction.. but if I visit Germany or Austria with my OSM app in English and get a hankering for strudel, I'll have to ask someone on the street and stop using my OSM app (perhaps altogether) because I never thought to try a candy store. :-) Murry
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