2013/1/26 Friedrich Volkmann <b...@volki.at> > The term "substation" is missing in my dictionary. To me, it seems to be a > technical term (covering large transformer stations as well as transformer > houses), while in common English one would rather choose the terms > transformer station/house. Maybe some native speaker could clarify this. >
Here is a page from National Grid's website which gives an overview of terms. http://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/LandandDevelopment/SC/devnearohl_final/siting_substation/ > It is possible to rename both tags, but this should be carefully done, > with 3 crucial criteria to be met: > 1) don't lose any information => don't shuffle transformer stations > (hitherto power=station) and transformer houses (hitherto > power=sub_station) together > According to some previous explanations, power=station and power=sub_station must be renamed since the sense isn't clear at all. Don-vip's proposal gives a good solution for this : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Power_generation_refinement#Deprecated_tags > Using voltage=* to indicate the catagory of substation is much >> better. >> > > No, because normal mappers don't know the voltage. What we call an > Umpannwerk looks completely diferent than a transformer house. An > Umspannwerk is much larger, is surrounded by a fence, and has lots of > visible technical stuff (like wires with big isolators). Everybody can > easily recognize them, but only specialists know the exact voltages. If "normal" (what is normal please?) mappers don't know the voltage, they don't upload data, that's all. > See above. The voltage is not obvious to normal mappers. We can have the information just by looking how the substation is built. Air insulation distances are highly representative of the voltage. A wiki page already gives the method : 1m per 100kV. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:voltage > I suggest asking user aliponte, he is an expert on this. Ok, I'll contact him. > It's only a place whhttp://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=** >> ende&lang=de&searchLoc=0&**cmpType=relaxed§Hdr=on&** >> spellToler=&search=**spezialistere<http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&lang=de&searchLoc=0&cmpType=relaxed§Hdr=on&spellToler=&search=spezialistere>power >> is switched and transformed, just like the first photo. >> >> >> So distinguishing is not only wrong but hard to establish. >> > > Don't prentend that you don't see the difference. This is ridiculous. A difference *in which way*? Physically : You're right, I see a difference. But it's only due to voltage. Voltage is requiring air insulation distances which must be respected! Thus, in a 400 kV substation, design will be very different than the residential surburbs 380V one. Moreover, power exchanges between the two interfaces of a power transformer has an influence on the size of that transformer. That's all. Functionally : It's the same. The power is switched and transformed the same way in both places. There's really no difference. With this in mind, we'd better to tag every substation with power=substation and put any extra tag to define what kind of substation it is. We must put only one idea per tag. In "a big 400 kV substation" or "a small local substation" I see two main ideas. > On 25.01.2013 15:44, François Lacombe wrote: > >> The main problem is precisely the vocabulary used. >> OSM tagging should respect current language, especillay when OSM terms >> refers to totally different real life elements (plant taken for substation) >> > > It should. But compatibility is also an issue. Just look at tags like > amenity=prison. You cannot change that by just dropping it in the Wiki. Compatibility *with what*? Tool chain : I agree, we must be careful with tags deprecation since there's time of adoption. End users : I disagree, if users want a stable data-set they download an extract of planet and manage updates on their side. If they're working on live data, they must expect unattended updates of the model. > After all, these tags are code words, similar to a programming language. > creat() in C is missing a letter, still it's written like this after 35 > years. I see a bit of paradox. In one hand, you admit that "normal" mappers aren't at ease with power and other technical stuff so tagging should be "simple" and not so many descriptive. On the other, you said tags are "code words". How long do "common mappers" are familiar with code words and aren't with industry and infrastructure? I wish everyone has a good weekend, cheers. *François Lacombe* francois dot lacombe At telecom-bretagne dot eu http://www.infos-reseaux.com
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