Volume or pressure? Todd Williams
Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-608-4559 > > On Jul 1, 2024 at 9:25 AM, <Brian Harris (mailto:[email protected])> > wrote: > > > > > > Todd- > > > > Yes, it’s a manual wet standpipe. Problem is the city supply has dropped a > fair amount and now the standpipe test won’t pass. > > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > > > Brian Harris, CET > > > > BVS Systems Inc. > > > > > > > > > > > From: Fpdcdesign <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 9:21 AM > To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers > <[email protected]> > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Water Tank for Standpipe > > > > > > > > > > > Isn’t this a 4 story building? Below the high rise threshold, I assume. Can > it be a manual wet standpipe? > > > > > > > > > > > > Todd Williams > > > > > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > > > > > > Stonington, CT > > > > > > 860-608-4559 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 1, 2024 at 9:09 AM, <Paul Kimble (mailto:[email protected])> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Has anyone done a valued engineering survey of the city water supply and > > compared the original water test provided to the current. Is the city > > supply a gravity fed system or a system utilizing pumps? There may have > > been a pump down when you performed your last test or there maybe valves > > within the city supply that are partially open causing your loss. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul D. Kimble > > > > > > > > VP Operations > > > > > > > > A.S. Barlin Associates, Inc. > > > > > > > > [email protected] (mailto:[email protected]) > > > > > > > > (973) 696-6601 Office > > > > > > > > (973) 632-8341 Cell > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Eric Rieve <[email protected] (mailto:[email protected])> > > Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 8:27 AM > > To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers > > <[email protected] > > (mailto:[email protected])> > > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Water Tank for Standpipe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Brian, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have the feeling that messing around with something complicated like a > > break-tank and having to rearrange your fire pump wouldn’t be worth it > > compared to simply installing a 30-minute duration dry hydrant on the > > property. It would be a lot larger tank but would guarantee you have a > > dedicated water supply volume just for standpipes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If your city water supply has already lost 25% of it’s capacity, trying to > > design a work-around based on the new number is just setting the property > > up for having to go through the entire exercise again when the supply gets > > even worse. Taking the standpipe demand out altogether also benefits the > > sprinkler system’s design longevity since you’ll have significantly reduced > > the demand going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just my two cents. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope this helps, > > > > > > > > Eric Rieve, SET > > Rieve Fire Protection > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Brian Harris <[email protected] > > (mailto:[email protected])> > > Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 7:53 AM > > To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers > > <[email protected] > > (mailto:[email protected])> > > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Water Tank for Standpipe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Travis- > > > > > > > > Yes, & yes. My question was since the system was designed and installed > > the water supply now is about 3/4 of what it was. We are looking to > > supplement the city supply with a water tank since the fire truck shuts > > down before we can get the 1000gpm. The city supply is running out of > > water. I was curious as to the sizing of a supplemental tank. I see if it’s > > only supplied by a tank, it needs a 30-minute duration. Since the city is > > capable of supplying “most” of the demand I looking for the best way would > > be to properly size a tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Brian Harris, CET > > > > > > > > BVS Systems Inc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Travis Mack <[email protected] (mailto:[email protected])> > > Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 7:45 AM > > To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers > > <[email protected] > > (mailto:[email protected])> > > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Water Tank for Standpipe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I doubt that school is tall enough to be a high rise. Manual is allowed > > per NFPA 14. Do you know what a manual standpipe is? If so, contact the AHJ > > to find out what they require you use as a supply value. A manual > > standpipe has its supply as the FDC. So calculate as the FDC as your supply > > with the values the ahj provides. It’s likely going to be something like > > 150 psi at 1000 gpm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Travis Mack, SET > > > > > > > > M.E.P.CAD | > > > > > > > > 181 N. Arroyo Grande Blvd. #105 I Henderson, NV 89074 > > > > > > > > www.mepcad.com (http://www.mepcad.com/) | m: 480.547.9348 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AutoSPRINK | AutoSPRINK FAB | AutoSPRINK RVT | AlarmCAD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Book appointment time in my calendar > > > > > > > > https://calendly.com/t_mack_mepcad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Brian Harris <[email protected] > > (mailto:[email protected])> > > Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 4:38:05 AM > > To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers > > <[email protected] > > (mailto:[email protected])> > > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Water Tank for Standpipe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yasser > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Brian Harris, CET > > > > > > > > BVS Systems Inc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Yasser Amer Ahmed <[email protected] > > (mailto:[email protected])> > > Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 6:44 AM > > To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers > > <[email protected] > > (mailto:[email protected])> > > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Water Tank for Standpipe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Brian, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As per NFPA-14, 5.2 (2024 Ed.) 5.2 Minimum Supply for Class I, Class D, and > > Class III Systems. The minimum water supply shall be capable of providing > > the system de1nand established by Chapter 10 for at least 30 minutes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All Gratitude, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yasser Amer Ahmed > > > > > > > > Fire Protection & Plumbing Specialist > > > > > > > > Registered Fire Protection Consultant > > > > > > > > MBA, LEED AP BD+C™, CPD, CFPS, MIFireE, PMSFPE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Smart Village, Cairo-Alexandria Desert Road > > > > > > > > Street 26, Building 10 > > > > > > > > P.O. Box: 129, Giza 12577, Egypt > > > > > > > > Tel: +202 3531 8000 > > > > > > > > Fax: +202 3537 1223 > > > > > > > > dar.com > > (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__dar.com_&d=DwMFAg&c=0YGvTs3tT-VMy8_v51yLDw&r=BPv183lhQEq9N7uN6BtSUYy-qO1aQth8MfS3CXy9v8o&m=AwHdiOGHCF__Z72zfS9hXpv57AcrHPsoC4nxS7tvlkY&s=RZxKhKFy24ZwTQD2ONzIVG3oH1WAdGB-GK2L6HoX0Fs&e=) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__dar.com_&d=DwMFAg&c=0YGvTs3tT-VMy8_v51yLDw&r=BPv183lhQEq9N7uN6BtSUYy-qO1aQth8MfS3CXy9v8o&m=AwHdiOGHCF__Z72zfS9hXpv57AcrHPsoC4nxS7tvlkY&s=RZxKhKFy24ZwTQD2ONzIVG3oH1WAdGB-GK2L6HoX0Fs&e=) > > > > > > > > Please consider the environment before printing this document > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Travis Mack <[email protected] (mailto:[email protected])> > > Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 1:34 PM > > To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers > > <[email protected] > > (mailto:[email protected])> > > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Water Tank for Standpipe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ! External Email, Use Caution ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it a high rise or mid rise? If mid rise, calc it to the FDC and be done. > > If a high rise and automatic standpipe, check NFPA 14. The duration is 30 > > minutes. So that is how you would size a tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Travis Mack, SET > > > > > > > > M.E.P.CAD | > > > > > > > > 181 N. Arroyo Grande Blvd. #105 I Henderson, NV 89074 > > > > > > > > www.mepcad.com > > (https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fwww.mepcad.com%2f&c=E,1,-4N2RZKUba_tdy65g6bmxh0QKzZyB4IFxh7FewvPS08dfMil9SJ7e-nULD3iv8Tco6tXDK1EfeIYVTl6v8gt_jeh3nwQJShLejhSBFPVdWqVOxQnapv-TMIHA6g,&typo=1) > > | m: 480.547.9348 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AutoSPRINK | AutoSPRINK FAB | AutoSPRINK RVT | AlarmCAD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Book appointment time in my calendar > > > > > > > > https://calendly.com/t_mack_mepcad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Brian Harris <[email protected] > > (mailto:[email protected])> > > Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 3:31:59 AM > > To: [email protected] > > (mailto:[email protected]) > > <[email protected] > > (mailto:[email protected])> > > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Water Tank for Standpipe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We have a project where the water supply has degraded a good bit since > > installation was completed. Sprinkler system and pump test all pass but the > > standpipe test runs out of water. Only thing I can think of to help would > > be a water tank but how would you even size one since the “duration” of a > > standpipe test is open ended? Any other thoughts? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Brian Harris, CET > > > > > > > > BVS Systems Inc. > > > > > > > > bvssystemsinc.com > > (https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbvssystemsinc.com%2f&c=E,1,DxViP7dSzV-R2rx5fGIyoL1vsDK_tTbfrJamJJsCEkhMVaCVUXX3uMknt5ksggBpEfXELKFUusTuDEcjOcvs4e1Xf-ZA6si2AAvUiof7pgyIcg,,&typo=1) > > > > > > > > Phone: 704.896.9989 > > > > > > > > Fax: 704.896.1935 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Confidentiality & Disclaimer Note: This e-mail (including any > > attachments) contain protected and confidential information intended for > > the sole use of the individual or organization addressee. 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