This sounds like an Annex B IBC, not NFPA 14 issue. R/ Matt
Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, C.E.T. Ferguson Fire Design, LLC D: (602) 337-0721<(602)%20337-0721> C: (307) 236-8249<(307)%20236-8249> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> From: Brian Harris <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 7:25 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Water Tank for Standpipe Caution: This email originated from outside of the organization. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless you recognize and trust the sender. ________________________________ Todd- Yes, it’s a manual wet standpipe. Problem is the city supply has dropped a fair amount and now the standpipe test won’t pass. Thank you, Brian Harris, CET BVS Systems Inc. From: Fpdcdesign <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 9:21 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Water Tank for Standpipe Isn’t this a 4 story building? Below the high rise threshold, I assume. Can it be a manual wet standpipe? Todd Williams Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-608-4559 On Jul 1, 2024 at 9:09 AM, <Paul Kimble<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Has anyone done a valued engineering survey of the city water supply and compared the original water test provided to the current. Is the city supply a gravity fed system or a system utilizing pumps? There may have been a pump down when you performed your last test or there maybe valves within the city supply that are partially open causing your loss. Paul D. Kimble VP Operations A.S. Barlin Associates, Inc. [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> (973) 696-6601 Office (973) 632-8341 Cell From: Eric Rieve <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 8:27 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Water Tank for Standpipe Brian, I have the feeling that messing around with something complicated like a break-tank and having to rearrange your fire pump wouldn’t be worth it compared to simply installing a 30-minute duration dry hydrant on the property. It would be a lot larger tank but would guarantee you have a dedicated water supply volume just for standpipes. If your city water supply has already lost 25% of it’s capacity, trying to design a work-around based on the new number is just setting the property up for having to go through the entire exercise again when the supply gets even worse. Taking the standpipe demand out altogether also benefits the sprinkler system’s design longevity since you’ll have significantly reduced the demand going forward. Just my two cents. Hope this helps, Eric Rieve, SET Rieve Fire Protection From: Brian Harris <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 7:53 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Water Tank for Standpipe Travis- Yes, & yes. My question was since the system was designed and installed the water supply now is about 3/4 of what it was. We are looking to supplement the city supply with a water tank since the fire truck shuts down before we can get the 1000gpm. The city supply is running out of water. I was curious as to the sizing of a supplemental tank. I see if it’s only supplied by a tank, it needs a 30-minute duration. Since the city is capable of supplying “most” of the demand I looking for the best way would be to properly size a tank. Thank you, Brian Harris, CET BVS Systems Inc. From: Travis Mack <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 7:45 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Water Tank for Standpipe I doubt that school is tall enough to be a high rise. Manual is allowed per NFPA 14. Do you know what a manual standpipe is? If so, contact the AHJ to find out what they require you use as a supply value. A manual standpipe has its supply as the FDC. So calculate as the FDC as your supply with the values the ahj provides. It’s likely going to be something like 150 psi at 1000 gpm. Travis Mack, SET M.E.P.CAD | 181 N. Arroyo Grande Blvd. #105 I Henderson, NV 89074 www.mepcad.com<http://www.mepcad.com/> | m: 480.547.9348 AutoSPRINK | AutoSPRINK FAB | AutoSPRINK RVT | AlarmCAD Book appointment time in my calendar https://calendly.com/t_mack_mepcad<https://calendly.com/t_mack_mepcad> ________________________________ From: Brian Harris <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 4:38:05 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Water Tank for Standpipe Yasser Thank you, Brian Harris, CET BVS Systems Inc. From: Yasser Amer Ahmed <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 6:44 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Water Tank for Standpipe Hi Brian, As per NFPA-14, 5.2 (2024 Ed.) 5.2 Minimum Supply for Class I, Class D, and Class III Systems. The minimum water supply shall be capable of providing the system de1nand established by Chapter 10 for at least 30 minutes. All Gratitude, Yasser Amer Ahmed Fire Protection & Plumbing Specialist Registered Fire Protection Consultant MBA, LEED AP BD+C™, CPD, CFPS, MIFireE, PMSFPE [cid:[email protected]] Smart Village, Cairo-Alexandria Desert Road Street 26, Building 10 P.O. Box: 129, Giza 12577, Egypt Tel: +202 3531 8000 Fax: +202 3537 1223 dar.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__dar.com_&d=DwMFAg&c=0YGvTs3tT-VMy8_v51yLDw&r=BPv183lhQEq9N7uN6BtSUYy-qO1aQth8MfS3CXy9v8o&m=AwHdiOGHCF__Z72zfS9hXpv57AcrHPsoC4nxS7tvlkY&s=RZxKhKFy24ZwTQD2ONzIVG3oH1WAdGB-GK2L6HoX0Fs&e=> [cid:[email protected]]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__dar.com_&d=DwMFAg&c=0YGvTs3tT-VMy8_v51yLDw&r=BPv183lhQEq9N7uN6BtSUYy-qO1aQth8MfS3CXy9v8o&m=AwHdiOGHCF__Z72zfS9hXpv57AcrHPsoC4nxS7tvlkY&s=RZxKhKFy24ZwTQD2ONzIVG3oH1WAdGB-GK2L6HoX0Fs&e=> Please consider the environment before printing this document From: Travis Mack <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 1:34 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Water Tank for Standpipe ! External Email, Use Caution ! Is it a high rise or mid rise? If mid rise, calc it to the FDC and be done. If a high rise and automatic standpipe, check NFPA 14. The duration is 30 minutes. So that is how you would size a tank. Travis Mack, SET M.E.P.CAD | 181 N. Arroyo Grande Blvd. #105 I Henderson, NV 89074 www.mepcad.com<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fwww.mepcad.com%2f&c=E,1,-4N2RZKUba_tdy65g6bmxh0QKzZyB4IFxh7FewvPS08dfMil9SJ7e-nULD3iv8Tco6tXDK1EfeIYVTl6v8gt_jeh3nwQJShLejhSBFPVdWqVOxQnapv-TMIHA6g,&typo=1> | m: 480.547.9348 AutoSPRINK | AutoSPRINK FAB | AutoSPRINK RVT | AlarmCAD Book appointment time in my calendar https://calendly.com/t_mack_mepcad<https://calendly.com/t_mack_mepcad> ________________________________ From: Brian Harris <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 3:31:59 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Water Tank for Standpipe We have a project where the water supply has degraded a good bit since installation was completed. Sprinkler system and pump test all pass but the standpipe test runs out of water. Only thing I can think of to help would be a water tank but how would you even size one since the “duration” of a standpipe test is open ended? Any other thoughts? Thank you, Brian Harris, CET BVS Systems Inc. bvssystemsinc.com<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbvssystemsinc.com%2f&c=E,1,DxViP7dSzV-R2rx5fGIyoL1vsDK_tTbfrJamJJsCEkhMVaCVUXX3uMknt5ksggBpEfXELKFUusTuDEcjOcvs4e1Xf-ZA6si2AAvUiof7pgyIcg,,&typo=1> Phone: 704.896.9989 Fax: 704.896.1935 ________________________________ Confidentiality & Disclaimer Note: This e-mail (including any attachments) contain protected and confidential information intended for the sole use of the individual or organization addressee. If you are not the addressee or an authorized agent acting on their behalf, or if you have received this message by error, please notify the sender immediately be returning the message. It must not be copied, distributed or used in any other way but should be immediately deleted from your system. While Dar and the Dar Group strive to maintain high standards of communication, reliability, authenticity and integrity, neither shall be liable for the improper or incomplete transmission of the information contained in this communication nor for any delay in its receipt or damage to your system. Neither Dar nor the Dar Group guarantees that the integrity of this communication has been maintained or that this communication is free of viruses, interceptions or interference. Confidentiality & Disclaimer Note: This e-mail (including any attachments) contain protected and confidential information intended for the sole use of the individual or organization addressee. If you are not the addressee or an authorized agent acting on their behalf, or if you have received this message by error, please notify the sender immediately be returning the message. It must not be copied, distributed or used in any other way but should be immediately deleted from your system. 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