Maybe they can install solid vertical bulkheads along the length of the tables spaced at 10 to 12-feet between the bulkheads. These would slow the progression of any fire along the length of the tables and force the heat out from under the tables to activate the overhead sprinklers quicker. Rick Matsuda
> On May 13, 2024, at 6:40 AM, Steve Leyton <[email protected]> wrote: > > > All: > > I was just approved by NFPA Standards Council to represent AFSA on the 420. > I do not yet have a copy of the first draft (it’s not available on the 420 > web page or through free access), but I’ve requested and will look over the > fire protection systems design criteria, which I believe consists of nothing > tangible at this moment. > > Since my firm is located in SoCal, we’ve done several grows and each one has > been different. We’ve designed for an open warehouse with fixed lighting > mounts that simply go up and down. We’ve had to contend with a fixture > that’s about 4’ wide and can be moved up/down/left/right. We’ve done > two-tier grows and three-tier grows and we’ve also dealt with the pre-fab > grow rooms. Within those grow rooms we’ve seen fixed tables and the sliding > ones alluded to in this thread. To say it’s the Wild West out here is an > understatement. > > Especially in CA, many fire officials have simply hit the HPS button and > called it a 24’ (three tiers of mature plants) of Class 3 or 4 on racks in > the open rooms, but I have issues with that since mature plants are 85% > water. The growing medium that is fast becoming industry standard is Class > A material (rock wool), it’s kept wet, and doesn’t require a container, so > the commodity ISN’T that hazardous. What complicates things is the presence > of the solid shelving, and that gets even more complicated by the sliding > fixtures that can be nested up to four across, which is a 16’ wide solid > obstruction in some grow rooms, and sometimes there are two or three of those > shelving levels. > > I don’t have any specific answers right now but I am hopeful that we can > point the code development conversation down a reality-based path, that being > the fact that this commodity isn’t all that hazardous (well, if the munchies > aren’t considered a hazard), and the shelving (which is plastic or polymer > composite) makes up a very small percentage of the overall volume of the > storage space. Yes, there are obstructions to sprinkler discharge, but we > have that in other storage arrays as well, so absent any clearer > prescription, it’s hard to argue with the shielded fire load approach and use > EH2. But if it’s only a single tier, then I’m probably back in the OH2 camp, > although as I said before, it almost seems like there are no two growing > facilities that are alike and the system designer is going to have to flex to > what the AHJ is requiring and what the specific conditions of that particular > facility would dictate. > > > The foregoing is my opinion only and does not represent NFPA or the NFPA 420 > Technical Committee, nor intended to serve as an interpretation of the > standard. > > Protection Design and Consulting > Steve Leyton, President > T | 619.255.8964 x 102 | www.protectiondesign.com > 2851 Camino Del Rio South | Suite 210 | San Diego, CA 92108 > Fire Protection System Design | Consulting | Planning | Training > > > > > > > > From: Fpdcdesign <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, May 13, 2024 8:52 AM > To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers > <[email protected]> > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Cannabis growing > > The array of tables are about 1000 sqft each > > Todd G Williams, PE > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > Stonington, CT > 860-535-2080 (ofc) > 860-554-7054 (fax) > 860-608-4559 (cell) > > > > On May 13, 2024 at 10:42 AM, <Spencer Tomlinson> wrote: > > I’m in the 2019 edition, but sections 9.5.5.3.1.5 and 9.5.5.3.2 may help > provide guidance. They do not up the hazard level due to an obstruction in > place, I like the idea of taking into effect a shielded fire, especially with > the size of some of these grow ops these days, but there are certain > provisions that would suggest otherwise…. > > Spencer Tomlinson, PE > Owner, Fire Protection Engineer > > > Cell: 620-955-7293 > > From: Fpdcdesign <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, May 13, 2024 9:32 AM > To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers > <[email protected]> > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Cannabis growing > > Travis, The definition of EH2 and section 19.3.3.1.5 both deal with > protection where there are unprotected spaces adjacent or within. The big > difference is the word “extensive” in the EH2 definition. From what I have > seen below grow tables it is a very wet environment with most of the > combustibles being water and non-water filled PVC pipe. I’m not sure that > would rise to extensive. The other argument if below the tables can be > considered a “concealed space”. Since there is no NFPA definition, we need > to go to a dictionary definition. My dictionary say the definition of conceal > is “to hide from view”. Nothing that talks about physical separation. I think > this would meet that criteria. > > Todd G Williams, PE > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > Stonington, CT > 860-535-2080 (ofc) > 860-554-7054 (fax) > 860-608-4559 (cell) > > > > > On May 13, 2024 at 10:07 AM, <Travis Mack> wrote: > > The 3000 sq ft is specifically for unprotected concealed combustible spaces. > So I don’t see how that could be used as you don’t have that from what you > describe. > > Travis Mack, SET > M.E.P.CAD | > 181 N. Arroyo Grande Blvd. #105 I Henderson, NV 89074 > www.mepcad.com | m: 480.547.9348 > > AutoSPRINK | AutoSPRINK FAB | AutoSPRINK RVT | AlarmCAD > > Book appointment time in my calendar > https://calendly.com/t_mack_mepcad > > From: Fpdcdesign <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, May 13, 2024 7:05:28 AM > To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers > <[email protected]> > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Cannabis growing > > Travis, What I have run into out here is that the grow tables are not fixed > in place. Consequently, they become “furniture” and protection is not > installed underneath. (I am trying to get that information). If they are not > fixed, does the 3000 sqft area increase apply or do we go to EH2? > > Todd G Williams, PE > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > Stonington, CT > 860-535-2080 (ofc) > 860-554-7054 (fax) > 860-608-4559 (cell) > > > > > On May 13, 2024 at 9:25 AM, <Travis Mack> wrote: > > What unprotected concealed combustible spaces are you referencing? The 3000 > sq ft is for that. Typically with grow houses, we have put sprinklers under > the racks of tables, if I am understanding correctly what you are describing. > > These houses are definitely a unique protection scheme and it seems the ways > of the growers changing things to maximize product growth is ever changing > and does need a constant review. > > I have seen some where the tables slid along a racking system. It was > similar in concept to movable rack storage. Since we couldn’t put sprinklers > below the table areas, the AHJ said to protect as a heavily shielded fire and > do the overhead system as EH2. I’m not sure if that is the best method, but > it did get it through in that particular jurisdiction. > > > Travis Mack, SET > M.E.P.CAD | Instructor / Support > 181 N. Arroyo Grande Blvd. #105 I Henderson, NV 89074 > www.mepcad.com | m: 480.547.9348| Whatspp: +14805479348 > Email: [email protected] > > AutoSPRINK | AutoSPRINK FAB | AutoSPRINK RVT | AlarmCAD > > From: Fpdcdesign <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, May 13, 2024 4:49 AM > To: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]> > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Cannabis growing > > I know that NFPA 420 is coming but I believe has not been issued yet. I have > been asked to look at a new growing facility. NFPA 13 calls out agriculture > facilities os OH2, which make sense for this occupancy. My question comes > from the tables. The tables are portable so sprinklers are required > underneath. However, does the 3000 sqft demand area for unprotected spaces > come into play? I would like to do something that is at least close to what > 420 will be recommending. > > Todd G Williams, PE > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > Stonington, CT > 860-535-2080 (ofc) > 860-554-7054 (fax) > 860-608-4559 (cell) > _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum > mailing list: > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum > mailing list: > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum > mailing list: > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > _________________________________________________________ > SprinklerForum mailing list: > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
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