Todd, the concealed spaces referenced in NFPA 13 are all regarding the construction of the building being protected. The tables you describe would be defined as furniture and would not fit into the area of concealed spaces. Just an AHJ point of view, but I believe supported strongly by the standard.
From: Fpdcdesign <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2024 7:32 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Cannabis growing ⚠ CAUTION: External Email Travis, The definition of EH2 and section 19.3.3.1.5 both deal with protection where there are unprotected spaces adjacent or within. The big difference is the word “extensive� in the EH2 definition. From what I have seen below grow tables it is a very wet environment with most of the combustibles being water and non-water filled PVC pipe. I’m not sure that would rise to extensive. The other argument if below the tables can be considered a “concealed space�. Since there is no NFPA definition, we need to go to a dictionary definition. My dictionary say the definition of conceal is “to hide from view�. Nothing that talks about physical separation. I think this would meet that criteria. Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-535-2080<tel:860-535-2080> (ofc) 860-554-7054<tel:860-554-7054> (fax) 860-608-4559<tel:860-608-4559> (cell) On May 13, 2024 at 10:07 AM, <Travis Mack<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: The 3000 sq ft is specifically for unprotected concealed combustible spaces. So I don’t see how that could be used as you don’t have that from what you describe. Travis Mack, SET M.E.P.CAD | 181 N. Arroyo Grande Blvd. #105 I Henderson, NV 89074 www.mepcad.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.mepcad.com/__;!!Lat9tvSZzw!hYW1c0quXj-tgkI7jtJeIADFs0UzZRCaNt6Klyp5YmmokALS2Z70wQ4QHeW7Vch8LNY7L4j3sJDp9A2MvacwyuUD$> | m: 480.547.9348 AutoSPRINK | AutoSPRINK FAB | AutoSPRINK RVT | AlarmCAD Book appointment time in my calendar https://calendly.com/t_mack_mepcad<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/calendly.com/t_mack_mepcad__;!!Lat9tvSZzw!hYW1c0quXj-tgkI7jtJeIADFs0UzZRCaNt6Klyp5YmmokALS2Z70wQ4QHeW7Vch8LNY7L4j3sJDp9A2MvTXkCk-_$> ________________________________ From: Fpdcdesign <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2024 7:05:28 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Cannabis growing Travis, What I have run into out here is that the grow tables are not fixed in place. Consequently, they become “furniture� and protection is not installed underneath. (I am trying to get that information). If they are not fixed, does the 3000 sqft area increase apply or do we go to EH2? Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-535-2080<tel:860-535-2080> (ofc) 860-554-7054<tel:860-554-7054> (fax) 860-608-4559<tel:860-608-4559> (cell) On May 13, 2024 at 9:25 AM, <Travis Mack<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: What unprotected concealed combustible spaces are you referencing? The 3000 sq ft is for that. Typically with grow houses, we have put sprinklers under the racks of tables, if I am understanding correctly what you are describing. These houses are definitely a unique protection scheme and it seems the ways of the growers changing things to maximize product growth is ever changing and does need a constant review. I have seen some where the tables slid along a racking system. It was similar in concept to movable rack storage. Since we couldn’t put sprinklers below the table areas, the AHJ said to protect as a heavily shielded fire and do the overhead system as EH2. I’m not sure if that is the best method, but it did get it through in that particular jurisdiction. Travis Mack, SET M.E.P.CAD | Instructor / Support 181 N. Arroyo Grande Blvd. #105 I Henderson, NV 89074 www.mepcad.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.mepcad.com/__;!!Lat9tvSZzw!hYW1c0quXj-tgkI7jtJeIADFs0UzZRCaNt6Klyp5YmmokALS2Z70wQ4QHeW7Vch8LNY7L4j3sJDp9A2MvacwyuUD$> | m: 480.547.9348| Whatspp: +14805479348 Email: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> AutoSPRINK | AutoSPRINK FAB | AutoSPRINK RVT | AlarmCAD From: Fpdcdesign <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2024 4:49 AM To: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Cannabis growing I know that NFPA 420 is coming but I believe has not been issued yet. I have been asked to look at a new growing facility. NFPA 13 calls out agriculture facilities os OH2, which make sense for this occupancy. My question comes from the tables. The tables are portable so sprinklers are required underneath. However, does the 3000 sqft demand area for unprotected spaces come into play? I would like to do something that is at least close to what 420 will be recommending. Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-535-2080<tel:860-535-2080> (ofc) 860-554-7054<tel:860-554-7054> (fax) 860-608-4559<tel:860-608-4559> (cell) _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum mailing list: https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org__;!!Lat9tvSZzw!hYW1c0quXj-tgkI7jtJeIADFs0UzZRCaNt6Klyp5YmmokALS2Z70wQ4QHeW7Vch8LNY7L4j3sJDp9A2MveMDC9ID$> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum mailing list: https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org__;!!Lat9tvSZzw!hYW1c0quXj-tgkI7jtJeIADFs0UzZRCaNt6Klyp5YmmokALS2Z70wQ4QHeW7Vch8LNY7L4j3sJDp9A2MveMDC9ID$> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
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