Just because you ‘can’t’ put those things in recycling or in trash doesn’t stop anyone from doing it anyway.
The reality is that people no longer follow rules and everything you can imagine ends up in the trash and the recycling. I don’t care what has been legislated against. The world I operate in, where fires are bigger than they should be, usually, almost always is because someone has done something inappropriately. Assuming that Li batteries and other ignitable items won’t be in trash and recycling is not realistic for a Fire Protection Engineer doing an appropriate hazard analysis. Hand grenades (that blow up before explosion detection systems can operate) and acetylene cylinders have been in hammermills and tipping floors. Are they supposed to be? Of course not. Are they there? Yes. Not worth a nickel but what I’ve seen and documented. From: Steve Leyton <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2023 4:35 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Commodity Classification questions Huh? I said that your prescription assumed certain things. I also suggested that the owner be put on record as to whether those certain things were going to be required or not. It’s very possible that higher hazard commodities can be found in facilities like this and if they are, THEN that’s the reality. You might be absolutely right and then again, it might be overkill to bring those other hazards into consideration. In California (and some other states I believe), that scenario cannot be the reality because you can’t have those things mixed into trash and recycling. Facilities that process such products as recycling or waste have to have special permits; if they are handled at the same property, they are required to be segregated. We have a lot of Mexican importers and distributors in San Diego and we recently did a system upgrade to .495/2,000. The tenant bought and owns the building; their business is wood furniture including chests, beds table chair sets and benches and their storage 22’ max height. No upholstery whatsoever but there are some other considerations that prompted a Class IV classification, hence the density. Or should we have plugged in ESFR because most furniture warehouses have high levels of exposed expanded plastics? Steve L. From: Scott Futrell <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2023 2:19 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Commodity Classification questions Sorry gang. Silly me for bringing reality into the thread. Carry on. From: Steve Leyton <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2023 12:59 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Commodity Classification questions Respectfully, this sounds like overkill. The project is described as entailing “plastics, paper/cardboard and metal.” Reading Li and propane into it changes everything and depending on the state, you can’t process gas cylinders or Li or even computer-related wastes in general sorting/recycling disposal centers. As noted, you’re going to have exposed plastics, bundled, likely non-expanded. Exactly what form will the most hazardous materials take, in what array will they be stored and how high is the roof? I think an Owner’s Certificate (or statement or declaration or whatever) is absolutely essential here… Steve L. From: Scott Futrell <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2023 10:19 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Commodity Classification questions The fire protection in this building and for this hazard should involve a fire protection engineer. There will be lithium batteries, one pound propane tanks, and more. Early detection and activation, as well as interlocks on equipment, in a very dusty environment should be considered. If it is unheated then dry systems and high ceiling heights affect the design. There are more than just a few fires in these types of facilities that you can research and find on the internet. Scott From: Fpdcdesign <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2023 10:53 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Commodity Classification questions I did one of these a while back. There is no good information in the Standards about this (unless there is something new). The problem is this could end up as a deep seated fire and the only real way to extinguish it is to pull all of the stuff out, look for hot spots and hit them with a hose. The closest thing I found was a vague reference to fire in piles of wood chips. If you want to talk about it, give me a call sometime tomorrow Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-535-2080<tel:860-535-2080> (ofc) 860-554-7054<tel:860-554-7054> (fax) 860-608-4559<tel:860-608-4559> (cell) On Nov 9, 2023 at 11:46 AM, <Tstone52<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: A local Solid Waste Company is building a new warehouse style building for receiving, Sorting, Bailing and short term storage of recyclables. Mechanical Sorting (Roughly 40,000 SF), will be used to sort Plastics, Paper/Cardboard and metal. Storage will consist Bailed Paper, Bailed Plastic and Bailed Aluminum. Top of storage shall not exceed 15’-0 high. Roughly 27,000 SF of Storage. The bails are wrapped with metal bands or wire. I am having trouble locating NFPA 13 information concerning storage of Bailed Materials and or deign information over the Processing/Sorting machinery. Regards, G. Tim Stone G. Tim Stone Consulting, LLC NICET Level III Engineering Technician Fire Protection Sprinkler Design and Consulting Services 117 Old Stage Rd. - Essex Jct., VT. 05452 CELL: (802) 373-0638 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum mailing list: https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
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