If project was to be recognized as meeting FM’s guidance, especially for their HPR program yes. If so it was normal for plans to have already been been through FM’s review, and bear their stamp before submittal to city.
Best. Bruce V. > On 05/19/2023 10:02 AM PDT Ken Wagoner <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Bruce, > > And your comment prompts this caveat from me regarding the application of 8-9. > > Quite some time ago I learned from FM Global, that to appropriately use 8-9 > as establishing the criteria for protection of storage that the entire fire > sprinkler system has to meet FM Global guide documents. It isn't a matter of > designing/installing a system per -13 and selecting the protection criteria > for storage from 8-9. > > The system has to conform to all of the FM Global data sheets, beginning with > 2-0. > > And just a question out of curiosity, Scot, when I looked at the reference to > 2.2.4.3 of sheet 8-9, I saw that it covered "rack storage" which was not what > Steve was asking about. Wouldn't 2.3.3.7 and Tables 3 through 5 be more > applicable as they include "bin-box" storage arrangements? > > sincerely, > Ken Wagoner, SET > Parsley Consulting > 500 West Mechanic Street > Harrisonville, Missouri 64701-2235 > Phone: (760) 745-6181 tel:(760)745-6181 > Visit the website > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fwww.parsleyconsulting.com%2f&c=E,1,Y5zKJKPEh1mBEBqSR-VE9cUKl5y-eyP8BpvmE_5j9ZqW2eJbNphYzrCMBZ-2YuX6d-RRkHI4gQ1FV-cvOeCfRC58uZS9NiToZv2mx7909oCqLvCW_n5hDHeK&typo=1 > > > On 5/19/2023 10:31 AM, BRUCE VERHEI wrote: > > > For the AHJ types skulking out there, I would back up Scot’s comments, and > > add the late Joe Hankins to list of highly respected FM P.E.’s. > > > > The one comment I do have is that’s #13 is intended to be used as a > > standard, and 8-9 et al as guidance to FM’s engineers and insured. It much > > more expects good intent, and is not to be applied for those who go looking > > for what-if loopholes. > > > > We accepted 8-9 all the time, while still applying the seismic etc > > standards from #13. > > > > Best. > > > > Bruce Verhei > > > > > > > On 05/18/2023 3:34 PM PDT å... .... <[email protected]> > > > mailto:[email protected] wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > If the client resticts their bin-box (open-top) containers to only the > > > lowest level of storage, there are onerous work-arounds. > > > > > > I would take my design directions from FM, as most of their high-piled > > > plastic storage advice becomes NFPA 13. Simply FM Global has been leader > > > sin qua non, in sprinkler protection of industrial rack storage for > > > scores-and-more of years. > > > > > > FM Global invokes the Bayesian far more often and far faster than NFPA 13 > > > (i.e. FM Global changes their mind to update their guess when presented > > > with new evidence). While it would appear that FM Global procurement of > > > evidence is biased, because they literally record their own fire test > > > data, I have found the integrity and the personal effort offered by their > > > personnel as a paramount case study in information sharing for the fire > > > safety community. At the risk of tainting their reputations by > > > association with this writer, I can not recommend enough the personal > > > contributions Prateep Chatterjee and Weston Baker of FM Global, have made > > > to our industry. > > > > > > Section 2.2.4.3 of FM Global's Data Sheet 8-9 talks to us on your > > > subject. You are in good care with their share. > > > > > > Collusion exposure statement: Scot Deal has no financial links to FM > > > Global either through payments or client procurement collaborations. > > > Scot Deal is financially linked to NFPA through subscription fees. > > > > > > Scot Deal > > > Excelsior Risk and Fire Engineering > > > gms: +420 606 872 129 tel:+420606872129 > > > > > > Si vis pacem, para vinum > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 11:47 PM Steve Leyton <[email protected] > > > mailto:[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I want to be sure that I’ve got this right: A client is moving into a > > > > brand-new ESFR protected warehouse space and they want to build a two > > > > level bin-box system. I explained that they would have to fire > > > > protect below the walkways and they’ve come back to me asking whether > > > > or not building just the lower level of the system would alleviate the > > > > need to make sprinkler system improvements. The CMSA and ESFR > > > > protection tables in Chapter 14 (2016 edition) don’t include bin-box or > > > > plastics in the application range, Only palletized and solid pile, > > > > Classes 1-4. If they want to use a bin-box system, do they have to > > > > change roof sprinklers out for CMDA? Or can the ESFR remain and CMDA > > > > sprinklers would be installed under walkways when they’re built? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I miss the little bitty book and pipe scheduled systems… > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve Leyton, President > > > > T | 619.255.8964 tel:619.255.8964 x 102 | www.protectiondesign.com > > > > http://www.protectiondesign.com/ > > > > 2851 Camino Del Rio South | Suite 210 | San Diego, CA 92108 > > > > Fire Protection System Design | Consulting | Planning | Training > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > > SprinklerForum mailing list: > > > > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > > > > To unsubscribe send an email to > > > > [email protected] > > > > mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > SprinklerForum mailing list: > > > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > > > To unsubscribe send an email to > > > [email protected] > > > mailto:[email protected] > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > SprinklerForum mailing list: > > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to > > [email protected] > > mailto:[email protected] > > > > _________________________________________________________ > SprinklerForum mailing list: > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >
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