Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-21 Thread Darren J Moffat
Bart Smaalders wrote: Jason J. W. Williams wrote: Not sure. I don't see an advantage to moving off UFS for boot pools. :-) -J Except of course that snapshots & clones will surely be a nicer way of recovering from "adverse administrative events"... and make live upgrade and patching so much

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-20 Thread Bart Smaalders
Jason J. W. Williams wrote: Not sure. I don't see an advantage to moving off UFS for boot pools. :-) -J Except of course that snapshots & clones will surely be a nicer way of recovering from "adverse administrative events"... -= Bart -- Bart Smaalders Solaris Kernel Performa

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-20 Thread Jason J. W. Williams
Not sure. I don't see an advantage to moving off UFS for boot pools. :-) -J On 12/20/06, James C. McPherson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Jason J. W. Williams wrote: > I agree with others here that the kernel panic is undesired behavior. > If ZFS would simply offline the zpool and not kernel panic

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-20 Thread James C. McPherson
James C. McPherson wrote: Jason J. W. Williams wrote: I agree with others here that the kernel panic is undesired behavior. If ZFS would simply offline the zpool and not kernel panic, that would obviate my request for an informational message. It'd be pretty darn obvious what was going on. Wha

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-20 Thread James C. McPherson
Jason J. W. Williams wrote: I agree with others here that the kernel panic is undesired behavior. If ZFS would simply offline the zpool and not kernel panic, that would obviate my request for an informational message. It'd be pretty darn obvious what was going on. What about the root/boot pool?

Re: Re[6]: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-20 Thread Jason J. W. Williams
Hi Robert, I agree with others here that the kernel panic is undesired behavior. If ZFS would simply offline the zpool and not kernel panic, that would obviate my request for an informational message. It'd be pretty darn obvious what was going on. Best Regards, Jason On 12/20/06, Robert Milkows

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-20 Thread Toby Thain
On 19-Dec-06, at 11:51 AM, Jonathan Edwards wrote: On Dec 19, 2006, at 10:15, Torrey McMahon wrote: Darren J Moffat wrote: Jonathan Edwards wrote: On Dec 19, 2006, at 07:17, Roch - PAE wrote: Shouldn't there be a big warning when configuring a pool with no redundancy and/or should that

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-20 Thread Matthew Ahrens
Jason J. W. Williams wrote: "INFORMATION: If a member of this striped zpool becomes unavailable or develops corruption, Solaris will kernel panic and reboot to protect your data." This is a bug, not a feature. We are currently working on fixing it. --matt _

Re[6]: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-20 Thread Robert Milkowski
Hello Jason, Wednesday, December 20, 2006, 1:02:36 AM, you wrote: JJWW> Hi Robert JJWW> I didn't take any offense. :-) I completely agree with you that zpool JJWW> striping leverages standard RAID-0 knowledge in that if a device JJWW> disappears your RAID group goes poof. That doesn't really req

Re: Re[4]: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-19 Thread Jason J. W. Williams
Hi Robert I didn't take any offense. :-) I completely agree with you that zpool striping leverages standard RAID-0 knowledge in that if a device disappears your RAID group goes poof. That doesn't really require a notice...was just trying to be complete. :-) The surprise to me was that detecting

Re[4]: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-19 Thread Robert Milkowski
Hello Jason, Tuesday, December 19, 2006, 11:23:56 PM, you wrote: JJWW> Hi Robert, JJWW> I don't think its about assuming the admin is an idiot. It happened to JJWW> me in development and I didn't expect it...I hope I'm not an idiot. JJWW> :-) JJWW> Just observing the list, a fair amount of peop

Re: Re[2]: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-19 Thread Jason J. W. Williams
Hi Robert, I don't think its about assuming the admin is an idiot. It happened to me in development and I didn't expect it...I hope I'm not an idiot. :-) Just observing the list, a fair amount of people don't expect it. The likelihood you'll miss this one little bit of very important information

Re[2]: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-19 Thread Robert Milkowski
Hello Jason, Tuesday, December 19, 2006, 8:54:09 PM, you wrote: >> > Shouldn't there be a big warning when configuring a pool >> > with no redundancy and/or should that not require a -f flag ? >> >> why? what if the redundancy is below the pool .. should we >> warn that ZFS isn't directly involv

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-19 Thread Jason J. W. Williams
> Shouldn't there be a big warning when configuring a pool > with no redundancy and/or should that not require a -f flag ? why? what if the redundancy is below the pool .. should we warn that ZFS isn't directly involved in redundancy decisions? Because if the host controller port goes flaky an

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-19 Thread Richard Elling
Torrey McMahon wrote: The first bug we'll get when adding a "ZFS is not going to be able to fix data inconsistency problems" error message to every pool creation or similar operation is going to be "Need a flag to turn off the warning message..." Richard pines for ditto blocks for data... --

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-19 Thread Jonathan Edwards
On Dec 19, 2006, at 10:15, Torrey McMahon wrote: Darren J Moffat wrote: Jonathan Edwards wrote: On Dec 19, 2006, at 07:17, Roch - PAE wrote: Shouldn't there be a big warning when configuring a pool with no redundancy and/or should that not require a -f flag ? why? what if the redundancy

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-19 Thread Darren J Moffat
Torrey McMahon wrote: Darren J Moffat wrote: Jonathan Edwards wrote: On Dec 19, 2006, at 07:17, Roch - PAE wrote: Shouldn't there be a big warning when configuring a pool with no redundancy and/or should that not require a -f flag ? why? what if the redundancy is below the pool .. should

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-19 Thread Torrey McMahon
Darren J Moffat wrote: Jonathan Edwards wrote: On Dec 19, 2006, at 07:17, Roch - PAE wrote: Shouldn't there be a big warning when configuring a pool with no redundancy and/or should that not require a -f flag ? why? what if the redundancy is below the pool .. should we warn that ZFS isn't

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-19 Thread Darren J Moffat
Jonathan Edwards wrote: On Dec 19, 2006, at 07:17, Roch - PAE wrote: Shouldn't there be a big warning when configuring a pool with no redundancy and/or should that not require a -f flag ? why? what if the redundancy is below the pool .. should we warn that ZFS isn't directly involved in red

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-19 Thread Roch - PAE
Jonathan Edwards writes: > On Dec 19, 2006, at 07:17, Roch - PAE wrote: > > > > > Shouldn't there be a big warning when configuring a pool > > with no redundancy and/or should that not require a -f flag ? > > why? what if the redundancy is below the pool .. should we > warn that ZFS isn

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-19 Thread Jonathan Edwards
On Dec 19, 2006, at 07:17, Roch - PAE wrote: Shouldn't there be a big warning when configuring a pool with no redundancy and/or should that not require a -f flag ? why? what if the redundancy is below the pool .. should we warn that ZFS isn't directly involved in redundancy decisions? --- .

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-19 Thread Jonathan Edwards
On Dec 18, 2006, at 17:52, Richard Elling wrote: In general, the closer to the user you can make policy decisions, the better decisions you can make. The fact that we've had 10 years of RAID arrays acting like dumb block devices doesn't mean that will continue for the next 10 years :-) I

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-19 Thread Roch - PAE
Shouldn't there be a big warning when configuring a pool with no redundancy and/or should that not require a -f flag ? -r Al Hopper writes: > On Sun, 17 Dec 2006, Ricardo Correia wrote: > > > On Friday 15 December 2006 20:02, Dave Burleson wrote: > > > Does anyone have a document that descr

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-18 Thread Jason J. W. Williams
It seems to me that the optimal scenario would be network filesystems on top of ZFS, so you can get the data portability of a SAN, but let ZFS make all of the decisions. Short of that, ZFS on SAN-attached JBODs would give a similar benefit. Having benefited tremendously from being able to easily d

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-18 Thread Al Hopper
On Mon, 18 Dec 2006, Torrey McMahon wrote: > Al Hopper wrote: > > On Sun, 17 Dec 2006, Ricardo Correia wrote: > > > > > >> On Friday 15 December 2006 20:02, Dave Burleson wrote: > >> > >>> Does anyone have a document that describes ZFS in a pure > >>> SAN environment? What will and will not work?

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-18 Thread Richard Elling
comment far below... Jonathan Edwards wrote: On Dec 18, 2006, at 16:13, Torrey McMahon wrote: Al Hopper wrote: On Sun, 17 Dec 2006, Ricardo Correia wrote: On Friday 15 December 2006 20:02, Dave Burleson wrote: Does anyone have a document that describes ZFS in a pure SAN environment? Wh

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-18 Thread Jonathan Edwards
On Dec 18, 2006, at 16:13, Torrey McMahon wrote: Al Hopper wrote: On Sun, 17 Dec 2006, Ricardo Correia wrote: On Friday 15 December 2006 20:02, Dave Burleson wrote: Does anyone have a document that describes ZFS in a pure SAN environment? What will and will not work? From some of the i

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-18 Thread Torrey McMahon
Al Hopper wrote: On Sun, 17 Dec 2006, Ricardo Correia wrote: On Friday 15 December 2006 20:02, Dave Burleson wrote: Does anyone have a document that describes ZFS in a pure SAN environment? What will and will not work? From some of the information I have been gathering it doesn't ap

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-17 Thread Eric Schrock
On Sun, Dec 17, 2006 at 07:57:20PM -0600, Al Hopper wrote: > > The section entitled "Does ZFS work with SAN-attached devices?" does not > make it clear the (some would say) dire effects of not having pool > redundancy. I think that FAQ should clearly spell out the downside; i.e., > where ZFS will

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-17 Thread Gregory Shaw
On Dec 17, 2006, at 6:57 PM, Al Hopper wrote: On Sun, 17 Dec 2006, Ricardo Correia wrote: On Friday 15 December 2006 20:02, Dave Burleson wrote: Does anyone have a document that describes ZFS in a pure SAN environment? What will and will not work? From some of the information I have been g

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-17 Thread Al Hopper
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006, Ricardo Correia wrote: > On Friday 15 December 2006 20:02, Dave Burleson wrote: > > Does anyone have a document that describes ZFS in a pure > > SAN environment? What will and will not work? > > > > From some of the information I have been gathering > > it doesn't appear tha

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-17 Thread Ricardo Correia
On Friday 15 December 2006 20:02, Dave Burleson wrote: > Does anyone have a document that describes ZFS in a pure > SAN environment? What will and will not work? > > From some of the information I have been gathering > it doesn't appear that ZFS was intended to operate > in a SAN environment. Th

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-15 Thread Mike Seda
I use zfs in a san. I have two Sun V440s running solaris 10 U2, which have luns assigned to them from my Sun SE 3511. So far, it has worked flawlessly. Robert Milkowski wrote: Hello Dave, Friday, December 15, 2006, 9:02:31 PM, you wrote: DB> Does anyone have a document that describes ZFS in

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-15 Thread Robert Milkowski
Hello Dave, Friday, December 15, 2006, 9:02:31 PM, you wrote: DB> Does anyone have a document that describes ZFS in a pure DB> SAN environment? What will and will not work? ZFS is "just" a filesystem with "just" an integrated volume manager. Ok, it's more than that. The point is that if any oth

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-15 Thread Torrey McMahon
Dave Burleson wrote: Does anyone have a document that describes ZFS in a pure SAN environment? What will and will not work? From some of the information I have been gathering it doesn't appear that ZFS was intended to operate in a SAN environment. What information? ZFS works on a SAN just as

[zfs-discuss] ZFS in a SAN environment

2006-12-15 Thread Dave Burleson
Does anyone have a document that describes ZFS in a pure SAN environment? What will and will not work? From some of the information I have been gathering it doesn't appear that ZFS was intended to operate in a SAN environment. Thanks, Dave ___ zfs-di