Re: spammers targeting ironport quarantine now: phish

2010-03-01 Thread Daniel Quinlan
On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 5:56 AM, Michael Scheidell wrote: Imagine my surprise this am when I got a quarantine report from our ironport > email server (when I don't have one!) > Phishers targeting ironport users now. if anyone has ironport, can you > look at this email to see if it looks like an ir

Re: What's up with these URLs?

2006-01-16 Thread Daniel Quinlan
Both were found in a spam with a text/plain part > only. Thoughts? (changed list to users list) Anyone able to try the above URLs (sent in an email) with Internet Explorer, Outlook Express, and Outlook? Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: Wanted: Better Documentation

2005-08-24 Thread Daniel Quinlan
ply the changes to > SVN. Not to be a naysayer... no, sorry, that's exactly what I'm being... I doubt this will work any better than just working on it incrementally in SVN. If anyone here would like to help us work on documentation, submit some patches via bugzilla and if we like them,

Re: SpamAssassin 3.1.0-pre3 released!

2005-07-04 Thread Daniel Quinlan
tandard rule set. Chris, please be clearer in the future. Thanks. Daniel Quinlan Apache SpamAssassin -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: SpamAssassin 3.1.0pre1 PRERELEASE available!

2005-06-18 Thread Daniel Quinlan
sonal email servers for months. ;-) Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Denial of Service Vulnerability in Apache SpamAssassin 3.0.1-3.0.3

2005-06-15 Thread Daniel Quinlan
Apache SpamAssassin 3.0.4 was recently released [0], and fixes a denial of service vulnerability in versions 3.0.1, 3.0.2, and 3.0.3. The vulnerability allows certain misformatted long message headers to cause spam checking to take a very long time. While the exploit has yet to be seen in the wil

Re: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 Released

2005-04-29 Thread Daniel Quinlan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Justin Mason) writes: >> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 22:22:22 -0500 (20:22 PDT) > > > check it out! was that deliberate? ;) Your pattern recognition skills remain top-notch. ;-) Daniel -- Dani

Re: translation project (French)

2005-04-12 Thread Daniel Quinlan
ill, use the old translations directly if the English > description hasn't changed... (but still show the English in the file so > that wiki volunteers can check and possibly improve the translation). Way too much work. The first request was enough work. :-) Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

translation project (French)

2005-04-12 Thread Daniel Quinlan
last updated in 2003) are here: http://spamassassin.apache.org/full/3.0.x/dist/rules/30_text_fr.cf Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: SpamAssassin description translation tool

2005-04-11 Thread Daniel Quinlan
rs in Subject lang fr ADDRESS_IN_SUBJECT : l'adresse apparaƮt dans le sujet #describe ADDR_FREEFrom Address contains FREE lang fr ADDR_FREE De l'adresse contient LIBREMENT --- end Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: SpamAssassin description translation tool

2005-04-11 Thread Daniel Quinlan
John Wilcock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Great to see i18n being taken into account, but... Any chance you could > post some of the output (French, for example) so that we can get an idea > of whether these translations are actually usable or not? See below. > Unfortunately I suspect we'll

SpamAssassin description translation tool

2005-04-10 Thread Daniel Quinlan
using GNU recode or some other tool. Ideally, the tool would also output translations for the report texts, but those are multi-line so I didn't bother doing the work. The tool is: masses/generate-translation -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: spamd and spamassassin appear to have different results

2005-03-19 Thread Daniel Quinlan
reads rules properly. Every time after the first time it does not pick > up the per user rule scores. It picks up the user rules but not the > scores. I *WISH* this could be repaired. I didn't really read your reply except the last sentence, but I really wish I had an ice cream cone.

Re: spamd and spamassassin appear to have different results

2005-03-19 Thread Daniel Quinlan
Neither To nor Cc me > Spamassassin does what I think it should; spamc/spamd fails me. 98% likely to be the issue: you forgot to restart spamd Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: Quinlan interviewed about SA

2005-03-04 Thread Daniel Quinlan
ect Management Committee and two of them (Justin Mason and Theo Van Dinter) write at least as much code as me. (And Michael Parker is catching up.) Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

article: SpamAssassin Takes Top Anti-Spam Honors

2005-02-13 Thread Daniel Quinlan
se' what they wanted to block.'' Howard explains that SpamAssassin provides a statistical score, which customers use to make decisions about which messages should be discarded, which ones should be filed away and which ones to keep. ''Customers frequently tell us how happy th

users@spamassassin.apache.org

2005-02-10 Thread Daniel Quinlan
Can you file a bug against this in bugzilla.spamassassin.org? Attach an example message too please. Thanks. -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: Spamassasin Market research

2005-02-10 Thread Daniel Quinlan
Chris, Wow, she emailed a lot of people individually (not me, though ;-). You can always forward stuff like this to the PMC at <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> since we might miss it on the higher-volume users list. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: Less spam blocked with 3.02 - AWL-related?

2005-02-10 Thread Daniel Quinlan
ight want to bump up the Bayes scores a bit if Bayes is hand-trained. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: MIME attachment not decoded from some servers

2005-02-10 Thread Daniel Quinlan
visd-new is not involved. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: Apache mail list archives

2005-02-09 Thread Daniel Quinlan
ned an issue at http://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa (category: Infrastructure) -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: A possible mini spamd replacement and Integrating SpamAssassin with Novell NetMail

2005-02-09 Thread Daniel Quinlan
d Apache License 2.0 license and it's also required that you accept the license before you even download the software. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

SpamAssassin news

2005-02-06 Thread Daniel Quinlan
Hi folks, just a short request: If you post about an SpamAssassin news article somewhere, please put up a link on: http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/HistoricNews The page is a bit sparse right now. :-) Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

rule for mixed case URI scheme

2005-02-04 Thread Daniel Quinlan
check results are good, hits about 1% of spam with basically no false positives in 92,000 hams from 6 people. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: Whitelisting Groups/Lists

2005-01-28 Thread Daniel Quinlan
x27;ve been a moderator too many times, that's definitely too much work. /me calls patent attorney. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: Whitelisting Groups/Lists

2005-01-28 Thread Daniel Quinlan
(so spammers don't know how long to pose before spamming). I'm patenting the idea now... Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

RE: SPEWS still sucks

2005-01-27 Thread Daniel Quinlan
ional juicy data. Use those instead of sacrificing the scores by making SURBL _look_ perfect. :-) Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: SPEWS still sucks

2005-01-27 Thread Daniel Quinlan
Raymond Dijkxhoorn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Yes, Bingo! > > Why would i have a problem with SURBL, I was wondering... > JP_SURBL is 'my' list... Well, then my response makes even less sense, but hey, you gotta use complete sentences! :-p Dan

Re: SPEWS still sucks

2005-01-27 Thread Daniel Quinlan
1.000 0.510.84 URIBL_PH_SURBL Real-time hit rates for SC and OB are much better. -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

SPEWS still sucks

2005-01-27 Thread Daniel Quinlan
even worse than SPEWS used to be. Top domains among their ham blacklistings: [in this section of my personal ham corpus]] 57 apache.org 96 ActiveState.com 114 debian.org Also, yahoo.com, sourceforge.net, julianhaight.com (SpamCop!), etc. -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: 3.02 on Debian Woody?

2005-01-20 Thread Daniel Quinlan
ia CPAN? I seem to recall that every distribution has a way to remove packages... Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: 3.02 on Debian Woody?

2005-01-20 Thread Daniel Quinlan
all Perl packages directly from CPAN.) Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: Problem with drug mail

2005-01-20 Thread Daniel Quinlan
mprove my confidence that it will help. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: Spam getting through

2005-01-14 Thread Daniel Quinlan
__RUDE_HTML_4 /Your mailer do not support HTML messages. Switch to a better mailer/i meta RUDE_HTML __RUDE_HTML_1 || __RUDE_HTML_2 || __RUDE_HTML_3 || __RUDE_HTML_4 describe RUDE_HTML Spammer message says you need an HTML mailer --- end -------- Dan

Re: MIT Spam conference

2004-12-21 Thread Daniel Quinlan
ng, a pleasant climate, and comfortable seating, I can definitely recommend CEAS. If you're ever in the SF Bay Area and would like to get together, drop me a line. I've met with Jeff a few times. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: URIBL_JP_SURBL not working with 3.0.1 - but works with 3.0.0?

2004-12-02 Thread Daniel Quinlan
Theo Van Dinter wrote: > This has come up before: they're body rules now. Maybe we should parse either in the URIBL module until 3.1? Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: Japanese False Postives with Spam Assassin 3.01 and RH WS 3.0

2004-12-01 Thread Daniel Quinlan
ut it has almost a zero score. > Out of the Box: > GAPPY_SUBJECT > FREE_SAMPLE > OBSCURED_EMAIL The problem doesn't sound like it's SpamAssassin despite the subject line of this email, rather it's third-party rulesets. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: Sensible way to use SpamCop reporting?

2004-12-01 Thread Daniel Quinlan
ook Julian and the SpamCop folks a bit of time to beat the data into shape. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: whitelist by M-ID and PGP?

2004-11-26 Thread Daniel Quinlan
s of PGP are not the same set of people getting their mail occasionally flagged as false positives. -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: whitelist by M-ID and PGP?

2004-11-25 Thread Daniel Quinlan
o > best go about this? Or any other opinion on these (eg why these > may be bad ideas)? I have the former... it needs to be turned into a plugin. That's the only way to do it now. -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: Weird Memory Problem

2004-11-25 Thread Daniel Quinlan
should help. Please try that before your script. :-) > Does the dns_available tag still function in version 3.0.1 of spamd? It should, if it doesn't, your local.cf might not be getting read (best guess). You can also run "spamd -L" to only run local tests. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: Weird Memory Problem

2004-11-24 Thread Daniel Quinlan
sure you really need 15 children -- is that optimal for your load. Seems like a lot for a dual, especially if you're not using any network tests. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: Question on using SpamAssassin at a college?

2004-10-25 Thread Daniel Quinlan
aseline rules and see where that gets you. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan ApacheCon! 13-17 November (3 SpamAssassin http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/ http://www.apachecon.com/ sessions & more)

Re: dnsbl lookups slow due to "sleep 1" in code, plus patch

2004-10-07 Thread Daniel Quinlan
e tradeoff just isn't worth it. >> Can you look at average CPU user+system time? > I'll have to instrument the code to do that. The times I showed > earlier aren't "spamassassin" runs, it's calls to the library, from > MIMEdefang... but I'll add some c

Re: How to rewrite spamc in Perl

2004-10-07 Thread Daniel Quinlan
using other tools in addition to spam assassin (for > example, running an external virus scanner), making spamc/spamd a > possible nice general purpose means of distributing the load for email > scanning (not just for spam marking type scanning) and even email > delive

Re: dnsbl lookups slow due to "sleep 1" in code, plus patch

2004-10-06 Thread Daniel Quinlan
atch, > average runtime dropped to 0.26 seconds, a 3.5 times speedup. Can you look at average CPU user+system time? Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan ApacheCon! 13-17 November (3 SpamAssassin http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/ http://www.apachecon.com/ sessions & more)

Re: HUMOR: Legit ham subject

2004-10-05 Thread Daniel Quinlan
us halfway! Which rules caused the FP? Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan ApacheCon! 13-17 November (3 SpamAssassin http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/ http://www.apachecon.com/ sessions & more)

Re: SPF not working

2004-10-01 Thread Daniel Quinlan
in::SPF --- end 3. If you are using spamd or another daemon, restart it. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan ApacheCon! 13-17 November (3 SpamAssassin http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/ http://www.apachecon.com/ sessions & more)

Re: [bug 3838] V3.0.0 spam not getting scanned

2004-09-29 Thread Daniel Quinlan
also help to figure out what the heck is on line 38. Does the line number change from message to message? I would hope so. The plug-in for dumping the body (in the wiki) would probably do the job. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan ApacheCon! 13-17 November (3 SpamAssassin

Wiki organization

2004-09-29 Thread Daniel Quinlan
ates an account.) Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan ApacheCon! 13-17 November (3 SpamAssassin http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/ http://www.apachecon.com/ sessions & more)

Re: RCVD_FAKE_HELO_DOTCOM score zero

2004-09-25 Thread Daniel Quinlan
6 > > So could these get a zero point score? Why did it get in the report > with a value of zero? Rounding. 0.034 and 0.024 render as 0.0. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan ApacheCon! 13-17 November (3 SpamAssassin http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/ http://www.apachecon.com/ sessions & more)

Re: DSPAM-plugin for SpamAssassin 3.* ?

2004-09-22 Thread Daniel Quinlan
there's some sort of change needed, we could perhaps discuss it further. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan ApacheCon! 13-17 November (3 SpamAssassin http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/ http://www.apachecon.com/ sessions & more)

ANNOUNCE: SpamAssassin 3.0.0 information

2004-09-22 Thread Daniel Quinlan
works for checks, adding to white/black-lists, etc. - The Windows support improved. Translations: - A Dutch translation was added, thanks to Jesse Houwing. - A French translation was added, thanks to Michel Bouissou. - A German translation was added, thanks to Klaus Heinz. - A Polish translation was added, thanks to Jerzy Szczudlowski and radek at alter dot pl. -- Daniel Quinlan ApacheCon! 13-17 November (3 SpamAssassin http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/ http://www.apachecon.com/ sessions & more)

ANNOUNCE: SpamAssassin 3.0.0 is released

2004-09-22 Thread Daniel Quinlan
ragmatic Apache License. Press Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Daniel Quinlan ApacheCon! 13-17 November (3 SpamAssassin http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/ http://www.apachecon.com/ sessions & more)

Re: 3.0.0 released? I see files..

2004-09-22 Thread Daniel Quinlan
SpamAssassin's) extensively before we officially announce the release, the first tarball is not always the final tarball - social: fill in the blank Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan ApacheCon! 13-17 November (3 SpamAssassin http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/ http://www.apachecon.com/ sessions & more)

Re: 3.0.0 released? I see files..

2004-09-22 Thread Daniel Quinlan
Bill Bradford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > http://spamassassin.apache.org/released/Mail-SpamAssassin-3.0.0.tar.gz > > Is this what I think it is? I don't see any official announcements yet. No, it's not. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan ApacheCon! 13-17

Re: Speak to me of Bayes and scoring in SA 3.0

2004-09-17 Thread Daniel Quinlan
0.45 - 0.55 would use the same score set as > "without Bayes," on the assumption that in that range Bayes is unable > to contribute to the decision. That's not a bad idea to try! Can you submit a bug for it? Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan ApacheC

Re: URI obfuscation check

2004-09-17 Thread Daniel Quinlan
of 11. With network tests, the score was 27 including URIBL_SBL, URIBL_SC_SURBL, and URIBL_WS_SURBL. In 2.64, the score was 15. That must burn. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan ApacheCon! 13-17 November (3 SpamAssassin http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/ http://www.apachecon.com/ sessions & more)

Re: Speak to me of Bayes and scoring in SA 3.0

2004-09-16 Thread Daniel Quinlan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > I thought so too... Well, I don't think the scores are the problem -- they are pretty much as good as they can get given the training data. I mean the entire method of putting them into ranges and scoring those ranges. -- Daniel

Re: Speak to me of Bayes and scoring in SA 3.0

2004-09-16 Thread Daniel Quinlan
ser factor. I think we could use a better way to merge Bayesian results into the SpamAssassin score, though. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan ApacheCon! 13-17 November (3 SpamAssassin http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/ http://www.apachecon.com/ sessions & more)

travel for SpamAssassin student developers?

2004-09-15 Thread Daniel Quinlan
o the conference. Thanks. Daniel Quinlan SpamAssassin PMC chair -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: erring exit code on spamc

2004-09-14 Thread Daniel Quinlan
xit status, look at the filtered result. If no rules ever fire, then it's the rules. I can't possibly help you any more. You're going to have to sit down and play with it to figure it out. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: SORBS Fine - Views

2004-09-13 Thread Daniel Quinlan
elopers viewed it as unreasonable and we generally don't use blacklists where the delisting policy is unreasonable. The guy running it does a great service for the internet otherwise, though. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: erring exit code on spamc

2004-09-13 Thread Daniel Quinlan
t" file that comes with SA. If it's not marked as spam, then it's 99% likely installed wrong. If your "spam" is not _really_ spam (READ THE WIKI), then well, argh! Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: Big companies using SpamAssassin?

2004-09-13 Thread Daniel Quinlan
Daniel Quinlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > The Apache SpamAssassin project is looking to get in touch with large > companies (Fortune 1000) or large user installations (roughly 100,000 > users or higher) that are happy using SpamAssassin and might not mind > telling the w

Re: erring exit code on spamc

2004-09-12 Thread Daniel Quinlan
http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/ which goes into detail on testing an install and so on. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Big companies using SpamAssassin?

2004-09-11 Thread Daniel Quinlan
a lot more out there. If you'd like to contact the development team privately, you can send your reply to the Apache SpamAssassin Project Management Committee at <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. Thanks. -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: Unbalanced Bayes SPAM / HAM Count

2004-09-11 Thread Daniel Quinlan
27;re quite close to reality. That's VERY good.) Actually, Bayes works better if the balance is closer to 50/50. That's why we added the additional auto-learning thresholds to make it possible to balance by reducing the amount of one type of mail (generally, spam) learned. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: SA 3.0-RC2 producing extremely large bayes journal files

2004-09-11 Thread Daniel Quinlan
k quite long, > about two minutes. As I understand SA should try to sync once a day? So, If you haven't already, please file a bug. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: SARE vs SA rules contributions

2004-09-11 Thread Daniel Quinlan
Robert Menschel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Sept 9, Daniel Quinlan added a note to the bottom of > http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/ContributingNewRules (the stuff > within the parentheses). > > > You can also post your SpamAssassinRules to the

Re: Rs: SpamAssassin 3.0.0-rc3 RELEASE CANDIDATE available!

2004-09-08 Thread Daniel Quinlan
sure that you don't give more of a bonus for > SPF-pass than the penalty for being on a RBL. Not quite. You have to take into account spammers registering new domains. Sites will need to build up a positive reputation, putting up a bond, being accredited, or whatever before they can get

Re: Rs: SpamAssassin 3.0.0-rc3 RELEASE CANDIDATE available!

2004-09-08 Thread Daniel Quinlan
never intended to block spam on their own. They are only used for authentication. Ciphertrust may know this, but they deserve flack for passing off these results as anything newsworthy. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

ANNOUNCE: ApacheCon US 2004 (SpamAssassin Sessions!)

2004-09-07 Thread Daniel Quinlan
Tutorial Level: Novice Audience: Technical Categories: Anti-Spam, New Technologies, Performance, Perl Speaker: Daniel Quinlan Abstract: SpamAssassin is perhaps the most widely deployed anti-spam tool in the world and has long been the gold standard for spam filters

Re: Ping for primary MX

2004-09-06 Thread Daniel Quinlan
allow > it to reject more instead of queuing it to the primary. The rule should work regardless of where it's run. It also should ideally work for forwarded email (assuming trusted_networks is set up, I don't expect it to check every relay hop, just the untrusted->trusted one. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: Ping for primary MX

2004-09-05 Thread Daniel Quinlan
Daniel Quinlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > No, but by my quick test here it would help a bit. 0.22% of my spam and > 9% of my missed spam was sent via my secondary MX. Oops, that 0.22% is the number of _missed_ spam messages that hit the rule out of all of my spam. It's ab

Re: Ping for primary MX

2004-09-05 Thread Daniel Quinlan
ce it was back up. Perhaps something like: - a higher priority MX is up - the mail was delivered from a secondary MX with little or no delay Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: How many rules do we need for Hight Priority Mail?

2004-09-05 Thread Daniel Quinlan
erent headers and only sum to 1.8. The scores will incidentally be lower in 3.0 because other rules work better, but they definitely are a minor spam sign. score X_MSMAIL_PRIORITY_HIGH 0 0.267 0.021 0.000 score X_PRIORITY_HIGH 0.125 0.093 0.077 0.000 Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/

Re: SpamAssassin 3.0.0-rc3 RELEASE CANDIDATE available!

2004-09-04 Thread Daniel Quinlan
, it may become more useful if it is more widely deployed. Daniel -- Daniel Quinlan http://www.pathname.com/~quinlan/