Re: Livecode Future - and Microsoft past

doc hawk: > Somewhere in my files I have a (typed!) letter from Microsoft > from 1989 or 1990 responding to my suggestion as a software > developer suggesting that BASIC be attached to MS Word. > The gist was that it was an intriguing idea, > but they had no plans for such a thing. I had to fol

Re: Livecode Future

+1 On Aug 2, 2024, at 9:50 AM, Kevin Stallibrass via use-livecode wrote: Retiree’s comments: I started with runtime revolution v1 when it was included on a PC Pro magazine all those years ago and immediately built my first program which was a neat utility (in 4 languages) which was used by my

Re: Livecode Future

Heriberto honked, > In the early 90s, I detected a bug when installing Microsoft Office alongside > Corel Draw on Windows 95. I called Microsoft, and two weeks later, I received > a diskette with a patch that resolved the issue. Somewhere in my files I have a (typed!) letter from Microsoft fro

Re: Livecode Future

That’s called “value for money”. You get the thing you want for the cost of what we were paying (approx) plus the potential for a heap more if they ever Do want or need it in the future. I think it’s pretty good. Especially for less than $40/mth. In context, I pay for Adobe creative cloud at £

Re: Livecode Future

I checked the cost of the licensing options and a very disappointing thing is that if I choose "Native" for instance, as far as I understand, I can deploy for all platforms. But in my situation I only need MacOS and Windows. So I have the feeling that I will ask my clients to pay for stuff they do

Re: Livecode Future

I checked the cost of the licensing options and a very disappointing thing is that if I choose "Native" for instance, as da ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subsc

Re: Livecode Future

I posted about my more odd ball situation with live code. Kevin answered with some solutions for seats for exhibit machines which could be a solution, but unfortunately I doubt the royalty solution for educational content software would not fly with the clients. As I stated it’s all ok since I’

Re: Livecode Future

The charge is not per app, it is per user. You can supply as many apps as you like to any licensed user. I'm sorry if you think LiveCode isn't suitable for your needs. As an existing customer I invite you to contact support directly. Kind regards, Kevin In my current role at the new company

Re: Livecode Future - End User Cost Extravaganza

We have discussed internally whether to produce an option without the Cloud backend for Create. We're not going to do it. It would create additional engineering costs, confusion about the offering for new users and a lot of the value in Create is elsewhere in the redevelopments we've done not ju

Re: Livecode Future

Precisely. There are free products in the marketplace and products far more expensive than LiveCode too. Appian costs $75 per user with a minimum of 100 users so $7500 per month. Either the benefits that LiveCode bring are worth the price to you or they aren't. Kind regards, Kevin On 26/0

Re: Livecode Future

That’s not what Create is. It’s a cloud based environment where we host your apps, run scripts and provide an integrated data backend. There may be other options to move forward available for existing users who contact us directly. Kind regards, Kevin On 26/07/2024, 15:53, "use-livecode on

Re: Livecode Future - End User Cost Extravaganza

Don't forget we have videos that explain both the rationale and the model. https://future.livecode.com Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Build Amazing Things On 28/07/2024, 1

Re: Livecode Future - End User Cost Extravaganza

Seriously, Curry, you are so good at summing these things up. It's what makes you such a great writer and consultant no doubt. I hope you are heard through this mist. On Sun, 28 Jul 2024 at 23:21, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Skip: > > > Wow… just c

Re: Livecode Future - End User Cost Extravaganza

Skip: > Wow… just catching up on this thread ... more confused than ever! Yes; big licensing changes, huge threads with generic subject lines. Quick Recap with quotes from Buy and FAQ: - 2 main licensing models: 'Internal Users' and 'Apps for Sale.' - Apps for Sale: developer seat(s) + '5% o

Re: Livecode Future - Tracking No-Hassle Solution

> On 28 Jul 2024, at 06:00, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode > wrote: > > When NOT using LC's data hosting, the Standalone Builder notices. > > No reason for high cost per user - thus, no reason for Tracking. >From my perspective (I know, I know: cue 'blind men describing an elephant'), >this

Re: Livecode Future - End User Cost Extravaganza

Wow… just catching up on this thread, and I have to say, I am more confused than ever! Not sure the licensing model needed to be this complicated and questioning if LC even knows who its end user is and what we are developing. I don’t mean to be trouble here, and I am probably misconstruing fa

Re: Livecode Future - End User Cost Extravaganza

Mike: > $440/device is not happening. even $100/device is not happening. > we are not paying $100/employee so they can run our payroll app, > for instance, on their phone. Well said! You summed it up perfectly. Thanks. What LC tier would work for you? My experience ... Consulting clients, bi

Re: Livecode Future

Mike Kerner wrote: > i appreciate the feedback. we've looked at xojo, a number of times, > but never written anything important in it. it was just an option > that came to mind, immediately, when thinking about LC competitors, > and their pricing. I've been very immersed in vendor evaluation in re

Re: Livecode Future

sired. > > I used Xojo for many years until they came out with API2 and started > renaming everything just for the sake of renaming. Its a mess now. > > > > From: "Mike Kerner via use-livecode" > Sent: 7/27/24 9:28 AM >

Re: Livecode Future

ia use-livecode" Sent: 7/27/24 9:28 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Mike Kerner Subject: Re: Livecode Future sean, * in reverse order: compare to xojo. $799. unlimited deployment (mac/win/linux/web/mobile, console/service apps. instead of bragging about their consulting service, they send

Re: Livecode Future

sean, * in reverse order: compare to xojo. $799. unlimited deployment (mac/win/linux/web/mobile, console/service apps. instead of bragging about their consulting service, they send you consulting leads). if you want to unlock god mode, with things like "top priority support", "fast fixes", "rapid

Re: Livecode Future

Mike Just picking up on your email below from earlier. You would be eligible for the 5% if you had it available in a privately accessible part of a web site to download as a standalone. That is, I’m pretty sure, the correct understanding of this licensing. And if you are getting $0 Gross from i

Re: Livecode Future

From: *use-livecode on behalf > > of Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode > > *Date: *Friday, 26 July 2024 at 16:37 > > *To: *Bob Sneidar via use-livecode > > *Cc: *Heriberto Torrado > > *Subject: *Re: Livecode Future > > > > Hi Bob, > > > > Thank y

Re: Livecode Future

alternatives… Col. *From: *use-livecode on behalf of Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode *Date: *Friday, 26 July 2024 at 16:37 *To: *Bob Sneidar via use-livecode *Cc: *Heriberto Torrado *Subject: *Re: Livecode Future Hi Bob, Thank you very much for clarifying my question. Based on your response

Re: Livecode Future

will have to leave the LC community and seek alternatives… Col. From: use-livecode on behalf of Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode Date: Friday, 26 July 2024 at 16:37 To: Bob Sneidar via use-livecode Cc: Heriberto Torrado Subject: Re: Livecode Future Hi Bob, Thank you very much for clarifying

Re: Livecode Future

Well given recent posts this morning I would contact Livecode Support and discuss you specific situation with them. Bob S > On Jul 26, 2024, at 8:36 AM, Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode > wrote: > > Hi Bob, > > Thank you very much for clarifying my question. Based on your response, it's

Re: Livecode Future

Hi Bob, Thank you very much for clarifying my question. Based on your response, it's clear that LiveCode is not suitable for our needs. In my current role at the new company, I've developed several small applications using LiveCode for internal use: a client onboarding form, a workflow manag

Re: Livecode Future

Yes each user who uses your app will require a seat license. Bob S On Jul 25, 2024, at 5:28 PM, Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode wrote: Hello, I apologize for asking my questions again, but after carefully reading the previous email, I am still a bit confused. My situation is as follows:

Re: Livecode Future

after the emails from kevin and heather, this morning, here's hoping we get a discussion of a more typical/traditional corporate app dev tier, because that's what lc is. it's not a db server. it's not an application server, it's a app dev tool, for building standalone, single-threaded, engined bina

Re: Livecode Future

Hello, I apologize for asking my questions again, but after carefully reading the previous email, I am still a bit confused. My situation is as follows: I work as the IT Director at a company in New York. Among many other responsibilities, I have developed several apps for internal use by ou

Re: Livecode Future - data hosting the hard way?

Sean: > Head of nail hit perfectly. Thanks, Curry. Concise as ever. Thanks Sean! Best wishes, Curry Kenworthy Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development "PASSION for Elegant, Efficient Code!" https://livecodeconsulting.com/ ___ use-liveco

Re: Livecode Future - data hosting the hard way?

Kevin: > Data hosting is already optional in a "standard way" - > you don't have to actually use it! Ahem - and not PAY for it when not used! LOL. Perhaps more than just data hosting, but similar problems Again, I'm already seeing and hearing: "Many end users? Don't use Livecode Create. $$

Re: Livecode Future

i'm coming to this conversation, late, because i'm spending very little time coding, and most of my time managing. if i understand the pricing correctly, LC wants to charge $440/year for each mobile device that is running an app that we wrote (we don't have any publicly available apps, so the 5%, a

Re: Livecode Future - data hosting the hard way?

Head of nail hit perfectly. Thanks, Curry. Concise as ever. Sean Cole > On 25 Jul 2024, at 16:51, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode > wrote: > > The new LC licensing is already sending a toxic message: > > "Many end users? Don't use Livecode Create. > > Privacy or Security concerns? Don't

Re: Livecode Future - data hosting the hard way?

Data hosting is already optional in a "standard way" - you don't have to actually use it! You can still build your app, connect to your own database (e.g. MySQL) hosted on your own server, build a standalone or a web app and distribute it yourself. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller ~ ke...@l

Re: Livecode Future

No. They are not commercial users - your company does not employ them, nor are they customers. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Build Amazing Things On 25/07/2024, 17:08, "use-livecode on behalf of William Prothero via use-live

Re: Livecode Future

Kevin, Just checking.. I am a hobbyist, no income is made on my apps. But if I want to make an app that my wife or friend might use, I need to add seats for them? Bill William A. Prothero, PhD Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science University of California, Santa Barbara > On Jul 25, 2024, at 8:3

Re: Livecode Future

If they are internal apps in your company then you understand it correctly. They are seats. So your cost for 3 (2 users plus yourself) would be $1320 annually. Alex is referring to apps for sale, not to internal users within your company. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.co

Re: Livecode Future

If that is true then I misunderstand the licensing model. My understanding is that every app I distribute for someone else to use is a “seat” as well as me the developer, another seat. I have 3 “seats” at present including myself, all are internal users to the company I work for, but the company

Re: Livecode Future - Tracking Hell

Simon: > If I had ever tried to supply any application that "phoned home" > I would have been asked to leave and never darken their door again. Exactly! It's a nightmare for many clients. > While I'm sure Livecode will say contact us and we will sort > something out, the fact is that having to

Re: Livecode Future

As I've said several times now - we are not mandating tracking. You can count machines instead of users if you prefer - it's one or the other (not some mixture of both). Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Build Amazing Things On

Re: Livecode Future - LiveCode Addons

No. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Build Amazing Things On 25/07/2024, 05:08, "use-livecode on behalf of Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode" mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com> on behalf of use-livecode@lists.runrev.c

Re: Livecode Future

Yes, the price for a hobbyist using multiple platforms is lower now. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Build Amazing Things On 25/07/2024, 03:44, "use-livecode on behalf of Alex Tweedly via use-livecode" mailto:use-livecode-boun.

Re: Livecode Future

We're going to tweak this policy a bit after feedback. Stay tuned for an email. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Build Amazing Things On 25/07/2024, 01:52, "use-livecode on behalf of James At The Hales via use-livecode" mailto:u

Re: Livecode Future

I don't think this is going to be too difficult. Might just be easier to license the machines this is on rather than the number of people. If that is even necessary, as volunteers do not count. As I've said in previous replies, phone home is not a requirement. If you drop us a line in support we

Re: Livecode Future

Hi Jeff, When I was working my use cases would have run into similar issues as you describe. Most of my applications were short lived and were used by either defence contractors or the military themselves. If I had ever tried to supply any application that "phoned home" I would have been aske

Re: Livecode Future

A bit more here (I’m in Oz) $685 at today’s rate. Just under my fortnightly age pension. And for a product that is still to be released! Still has bits that don’t work and who knows what the documentation will be like, if it even exists yet. Paying for things still to come is getting old (especia

Re: Livecode Future

It’s the one signposted as something like “growing the community”. I too dislike videos, so avoided watching this until Kevin said there was info about lifetime license holders in a video. btw, I am a hobbyist deriving no income from LC, and I think you’re incorrect about there being no place f

Re: Livecode Future

Mention was made to a video by Kevin regarding those with lifetime licenses and how it will work for them. Can someone provide a link to this video? I skimmed through the videos in the future page but couldn’t find anything (I really prefer to read rather than sit through a video.) Having purcha

Re: Livecode Future

Hi Jeff, I believe many people don't consider you to be an odd duck at all. You come from a time when software developers were akin to craftsmen. It was a more romantic era, where you would get a program like HyperCard or Visual Basic, retreat to your office with a few books, and create softw

Re: Livecode Future

Hi Kevin, Thank you very much for your response. It is an honor to receive a reply from the founder of Livecode. I had indeed misunderstood the non-commercial internal use licenses, so I appreciate the clarification. Perhaps it might be helpful to address this on the future Livecode website,

Re: Livecode Future

I’ve used Livecode since the early days of MetaCard, primarily creating educational software, educational multimedia cds included with kids books and a ton of museum exhibits. For me the new create system and licensing looks pretty untenable, but I realize I’m the odd duck. The bulk of my time

Re: Livecode Future

Please drop a line to support so we can talk through your specific/individual question in more detail. Thanks. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Build Amazing Things On 24/07/2024, 18:47, "use-livecode on behalf of jbv via use-li

Re: Livecode Future

; >>>> The fact that you aren’t specifically choosing to subscribe to it is very >>>> disappointing. I won’t get into a whole argument here but that strikes me >>>> as monopolistic. Microsoft have been in trouble for this sort of thing in >>>> th

Re: Livecode Future

Hi list, I am a bit lost as I am trying to figure out how I fit in the new license plans. I have built a couple of desktop apps years ago for 2 different clients who use them in their business, with less than 20 users in total. These apps make intensive use of LC server and I also have 2 LC-hosti

Re: Livecode Future

n in trouble for this sort of thing in >>> the past. Unfortunately we won’t have time to wait for some sort of >>> antitrust case to catch up. >>> >>> >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> >>> >>> Kevin >>> >>

Re: Livecode Future

ke...@livecode.com <mailto:ke...@livecode.com> > > <mailto:ke...@livecode.com <mailto:ke...@livecode.com>> ~ > http://www.livecode.com/ <http://www.livecode.com/> > <http://www.livecode.com/> <http://www.livecode.com/>;> > > > > LiveCode:

Re: Livecode Future

gt;>> >>> >>> The fact that you aren’t specifically choosing to subscribe to it is very >>> disappointing. I won’t get into a whole argument here but that strikes me >>> as monopolistic. Microsoft have been in trouble for this sort of thing in >>&g

Re: Livecode Future

in > > > > > > > > Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com <mailto:ke...@livecode.com> ~ > http://www.livecode.com/ <http://www.livecode.com/> > > > > LiveCode: Build Amazing Things > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Colin K

Re: Livecode Future

Build Amazing Things > > > > > > From: Colin Kelly mailto:ckelly5...@gmail.com>> > Date: Wednesday 24 July 2024 at 15:35 > To: How to use LiveCode <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> > Cc: Kevin Miller mailto:ke...@livecode.com>> > Subject: Re: Li

Re: Livecode Future

Thanks Kevin that is much more encouraging. At least I won’t have to abandon the work I have already done. Bob S > On Jul 24, 2024, at 9:37 AM, Kevin Miller via use-livecode > wrote: > > No, those apps will continue to work. > > Kind regards, > > Kevin > > Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode

Re: Livecode Future

I don’t think that there is any “phone home” to LiveCode in compiled classic apps. Peter Bogdanoff > On Jul 24, 2024, at 12:09 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode > wrote: > > Are the current compiled classic apps going to be disabled when the classic > license expires? That will suck big time.

Re: Livecode Future

No, those apps will continue to work. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Build Amazing Things On 24/07/2024, 17:09, "use-livecode on behalf of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode" mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com> on behalf o

Re: Livecode Future

Are the current compiled classic apps going to be disabled when the classic license expires? That will suck big time. I just compared my current license with what I would pay under the new one for 3 users. It isn’t encouraging. And right now I can distribute my app to as many users as I want. So

Re: Livecode Future

; Kevin > > > > Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > > LiveCode: Build Amazing Things > > > > > > From: Colin Kelly > Date: Wednesday 24 July 2024 at 15:35 > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Kevin Miller > Subject: Re: Livecode Fu

Re: Livecode Future

I think that there ought to be an option to continue to pay the classic license fee to continue to use classic, with the understanding that no future updates would be provided. I am the only developer, but I have 2 other people who use my compiled app internally. I *might* be able to convince th

Re: Livecode Future

From: Colin Kelly Date: Wednesday 24 July 2024 at 15:35 To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Kevin Miller Subject: Re: Livecode Future Hi Kevin, I see your argument but disagree with your premise, We don’t buy MS o365 Business standard license for our users SO we can deploy PowerApps, we

Re: Livecode Future

vecode@lists.runrev.com>> To: "How to use LiveCode" mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> Cc: "Kevin Miller" mailto:ke...@livecode.com>> Sent: Wednesday, 24 July, 2024 15:13:27 Subject: Re: Livecode Future Thanks Keith. I’ll see if we can tweak the FAQ

Re: Livecode Future

Message - From: "Kevin Miller via use-livecode" To: "How to use LiveCode" Cc: "Kevin Miller" Sent: Wednesday, 24 July, 2024 15:13:27 Subject: Re: Livecode Future Thanks Keith. I’ll see if we can tweak the FAQ slightly. (Copying the list here as I accide

Re: Livecode Future

Hi Kevin , Thanks for the reply. Well that sounds promising. Totally agree if digital service VAT is deemed due then the app can no longer be classed as free. Kind Regards > On 24 Jul 2024, at 14:05, Kevin Miller via use-livecode > wrote: > > If the app is genuinely a free companion app

Re: Livecode Future

: Colin Kelly Date: Wednesday 24 July 2024 at 13:21 To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Kevin Miller Subject: Re: Livecode Future As our employees all have a valid MS 0365 Business standard license and Powerapps are deployed via a tab in Microsoft Teams then there is no other cost for deploying

Re: Livecode Future

July 2024 at 12:55 To: Kevin Miller Subject: Re: Livecode Future Amazing. Thank you for the clarifications, they are quite reassuring. I look forward to adding my 2 pence worth of input on the branded styling and positioning. :) Perhaps the FAQ answer re free apps and resources could be

Re: Livecode Future

The bigger difference here is in internal users who buy either Native/Cloud or Universal. In the apps for sale only the developers need those seats, there is no difference to the application payments model regardless of what platforms you deploy. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller ~ ke...@liv

Re: Livecode Future

If the app is genuinely a free companion app then there are no fees payable under our model. It sounds like that is the case here so no change. What we won't accept is someone pretending the app is free and restructuring their business model to make it appear that way when its actually a paid ap

Re: Livecode Future

 Hi Kevin, I have one commercial app which is sold through Fastspring. Fastspring take care of the digital service VAT. I make small sums from this and the 5% would hurt a little. This fits the new licence “Apps for Sale” The concern is my second app, this is offered commercially as a package

Re: Livecode Future

Hi Kevin You mentioned a difference between having classic, web based and universal. How does that reflect in the pricing as there only seems to be the option for two models, internal and external apps. Does a ‘seat’ cover use for all the platforms? This will also have a great impact on ‘value’

Re: Livecode Future

Yes, this is quite important to me as well. Thanks, Tim Selander On 2024/07/24 19:14, Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: Can you say anything about the future of LiveCode Server ? Thanks, Alex Sent from my iPad On 24 Jul 2024, at 10:03, Kevin Miller via use-livecode wrote: I'm sorry to h

Re: Livecode Future

Well in practical terms if you don't know about it it's even harder for us to know. These sorts of things do happen but only occasionally so I don't spend too much time worrying about it. Obviously a sensible conversation would need to be had if it was discovered, most of which we would expect t

Re: Livecode Future

One feature of the present commercial licensing is that I decide the terms and conditions that apply to any application I build. What happens under the new licensing if I build an application either for sale or for a client and then some time in the future the application is duplicated, distri

Re: Livecode Future

Can you say anything about the future of LiveCode Server ? Thanks, Alex Sent from my iPad > On 24 Jul 2024, at 10:03, Kevin Miller via use-livecode > wrote: > > I'm sorry to hear this. You'll still gain access to anything that remains to > be delivered from crowd funding. > > I do want t

Re: Livecode Future

I'm sorry to hear this. You'll still gain access to anything that remains to be delivered from crowd funding. I do want to dig into the economics of this a little more though. At a quantity of 180 users, PowerApps costs roughly 33% more per seat than we do! LiveCode, even *without* the (up to 1

Re: Livecode Future

Many thanks - a short blog post linking to “the future” might help with those of us not following home page? On Wed, 24 Jul 2024 at 09:59, Kevin Miller via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > You should have received an email from us, I'll send the link offline. > > Kind regard

Re: Livecode Future

You should have received an email from us, I'll send the link offline. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Build Amazing Things On 24/07/2024, 09:46, "use-livecode on behalf of David Bovill via use-livecode" mailto:use-livecode-bou

Re: Livecode Future

Hi Kevin, is there a public post regarding the new model - I’d like to view it for a forthcoming project. Also you might want to fix the 404 you get while trying to read the most recent post on the site? On Wed, 24 Jul 2024 at 09:01, Kevin Miller via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> w

Re: Livecode Future

Totally agree and find myself in the same position with 180+/- internal workers, we only use LC for rapid prototyping although we do have some utilities that were built with LC. I guess I’m going to be forced down the PowerApps route. Slightly annoyed that i’ve subscribed and been part of all

Re: Livecode Future

Hi Heriberto, Thanks for taking the time to post. If those 100 users are non-commercial users, i.e. not employees or customers, then there isn't a charge. If you're building the app to sell, its a different model. With that said, if those users are employed by your company then it bears lookin

Re: Livecode Future

Hi Tom, Thanks for the feedback. We really appreciate it. I'm glad you think the communication was done well, these things are never easy to communicate and we worked really hard at that. We're very optimistic that these changes will give us the capacity to move a lot faster which is going to b

Re: Livecode Future

Hi Tom, It appears that under this licensing model, developers creating applications for internal company use—such as for a workforce of 100 employees—would still need to pay $15,520 even with the 30% discount applied. I hope I've misunderstood, but upon receiving the email about Livecode Cre