Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 5:36 AM, Petko wrote: > Ok , here's my last stand on the topic : > (just before that - Mark, your guidance is appreciated , it's good to see > you on the lists , despite your ,I bet, heavy schedule) > > Making this work in two points : > 1. Have an obvious caption "Launcher

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On 09. feb. 2012 00:40, Chad Germann wrote: NAy news on the one annoying Feature that effects people who use Applications that have a heavy reliance on menus IDE's, emacs, most other productivity related Applications and the vanishing global men just being downright annoying for them? That's

Re: [Unity-design] Saying no to options, Was: No more dodge windows in Unity?

On Wed, 2012-02-08 at 12:39 +, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > But is it worth it? Saying no to options is an important discipline > if > you want to contribute here. Saying yes always is an easy route to > failure. For a start, if we said that the total number of options had > to > stay the same

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

Ok , here's my last stand on the topic : (just before that - Mark, your guidance is appreciated , it's good to see you on the lists , despite your ,I bet, heavy schedule) Making this work in two points : 1. Have an obvious caption "Launcher behaviour" on the left side and a falling menu or a b

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On Feb 8, 2012, at 5:17 PM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > On 08/02/12 20:25, Owas Lone wrote: >> This thing broke my heart! It really did. I'm not protesting here or >> providing some reasons to bring it back or something. People who build >> unity have every right to take it in the direction they w

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:47 AM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > On 08/02/12 20:25, Owas Lone wrote: >> >> This thing broke my heart! It really did. I'm not protesting here or >> providing some reasons to bring it back or something. People who build >> unity have every right to take it in the direction

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 6:15 PM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > What's not cool, however, is forcing others to assume as much control as > YOU want to have. When you insist that something become a visible option, > it's forcing others to have to read that option. > > As a super smart racing car driver

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On 08/02/12 20:25, Owas Lone wrote: This thing broke my heart! It really did. I'm not protesting here or providing some reasons to bring it back or something. People who build unity have every right to take it in the direction they want but could we please have it back in the name of making Prec

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On 08/02/12 17:01, svela...@gmail.com wrote: "I'm trying to coach you to step back and think about the thing you are proposing in the broader context of a complex system that new users have to feel excited and liberated by. You're asking to make one piece of that harder. I'm asking which OTHER

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On 08/02/12 16:50, Petko wrote: It's just that I'm pro optimization of the components one by one (where they are not interconnected) , and you're pro keeping strict track of the sum of things . Sorry for being overly pointed about it. I appreciate that you're here for the discussion. But you

Re: [Unity-design] Reduce to icon function

Ok thanks. But when working on a window, attention needs a while before moving to another window; it could be easier for users to reduce the window you give attention in place of switching mind to another app, looking for it on launcher and then opening it. Maybe a cognitive therapist could help, g

Re: [Unity-design] Integrating Google's NaCl could help solve the Chicken and egg dilema in ubuntu?

That's not really true. Those who want and planned from the start to dev for ubuntu or linux will nevertheless.. the problem is usually with porting. Big corporations are not willing to invest all those resources to create a native port of their flagship products. i.e. Photoshop, premier, v

Re: [Unity-design] Reduce to icon function

I'm not sure if the decision of design team still the same, but this was dicussed some time ago in this bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349 I wish someone from design to confirm your current position. Em 08-02-2012 19:09, supernova escreveu: I'm using precise liv

Re: [Unity-design] Reduce to icon function

Meaning unity launcher for side bar... Supernova Il giorno mercoledì 8 febbraio 2012, supernova ha scritto: > I'm using precise liveusb. It' really great! > I was wondering if it could be usefull to add the minimize window ability to icons on unity side bar. In fact it has been natural for me to

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

Since Launcher is set to never hide, there must be space for X icons, because people use mainly X apps, can you detect the resolution and: - make the launcher icons small in small devices? - make the launcher icons big in big devices? -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~unity-design Post to

Re: [Unity-design] complaints

> Since you are going to Improve this area in the future, I want you to make > an XML DOM that is controlled by C instead of Javascript. Then, I would > control the positioning of any Unity interface element with getElementById > and insertBefore. Later, I want you to add createNode, setAttribute a

[Unity-design] Reduce to icon function

I'm using precise liveusb. It' really great! I was wondering if it could be usefull to add the minimize window ability to icons on unity side bar. In fact it has been natural for me to try to reduce windows by clicking on the corresponding icon on the left bar. Could also result in an increase of s

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On Feb 8, 2012, at 2:25 PM, Owas Lone wrote: > This thing broke my heart! It really did. I'm not protesting here or > providing some reasons to bring it back or something. People who build > unity have every right to take it in the direction they want but > could we please have it back in the na

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 2:20 AM, Pedro Bessa wrote: > Since the Launcher set to never hide currently looks ugly, > can you say that a bug that I reported affects you, > so that the Launcher set to never hide will look beautiful? > https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/873541 > I've already done th

Re: [Unity-design] complaints

We been following the add-on path since the beginning of Unity, and although we working to improve this area in the future, take a look at where we are at the moment: Add-on Indicators - Lots of custom indicators available that can be installed from the Software Center - See http://askubunt

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

Since the Launcher set to never hide currently looks ugly, can you say that a bug that I reported affects you, so that the Launcher set to never hide will look beautiful? https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/873541 -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~unity-design Post to : unity-design@l

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

This thing broke my heart! It really did. I'm not protesting here or providing some reasons to bring it back or something. People who build unity have every right to take it in the direction they want but could we please have it back in the name of making Precise nice for power users? It is a well

Re: [Unity-design] Integrating Google's NaCl could help solve the Chicken and egg dilema in ubuntu?

I'd just like to point out a bit of an issue with this: this still encourages the idea that developing specifically for Ubuntu should be a side thought. Why bother working on something native that runs even better when you can get an okay implementation that people will still use? I disagree with

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

I've been lurking on the list, and my interpretation of this thread is that "dodge windows" was removed because it had bad behavior when maximizing windows. But I haven't noticed much discussion about potentially fixing maximization problems while retaining the feature. Have there been any more tho

Re: [Unity-design] Good bye Ayatana, welcome to Unity

On 08/02/12 16:34, Evan Huus wrote: On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Omar B. wrote: Is good to have focus. But ayatana was more like a "general" place for ideas for different parts of the ubuntu-desktop (design ideas for usc, nautilus, apps, unity, etc.). so there is some confusion if those t

[Unity-design] Why having preferences / customizations is not a bad thing.

This Ted talk by Malcolm Gladwell shows why 1 size never fits all. why there is no perfect way. And that having preferences/customization options can be actually better than we think. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGWA7Nuz9e4 So I like the direction unity is heading and progressively adding

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On 02/08/2012 07:01 PM, svela...@gmail.com wrote: "I'm trying to coach you to step back and think about the thing you are proposing in the broader context of a complex system that new users have to feel excited and liberated by. You're asking to make one piece of that harder. I'm asking which O

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

Oh my goodness, did this thread ever get a huge response. I have 36+ emails to read now, but I'll try and snip the most important points for this response. On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 6:37 AM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > On 08/02/12 02:23, Evan Huus wrote: > > Previously the default was for it to do

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

"I'm trying to coach you to step back and think about the thing you are proposing in the broader context of a complex system that new users have to feel excited and liberated by. You're asking to make one piece of that harder. I'm asking which OTHER piece you propose to make simpler, to retain bala

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On 02/08/2012 05:57 PM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: I wasn't suggesting that we would drop another option just because you suggested it. I wasn't either :? I'm trying to coach you to step back and think about the thing you are proposing in the broader context of a complex system that new users

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

Agree it looks awkward how it looks now in that pic. maybe the ubuntu button (bfb) while in the always-show mode, could move a some pixels to the top. like in this mockup: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/02/ubuntu-laptop-concept/ of course not as big or curvy, so the rest of the elements align

Re: [Unity-design] Good bye Ayatana, welcome to Unity

On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Omar B. wrote: > Is good to have focus. > > But ayatana was more like a "general" place for ideas for different parts of > the ubuntu-desktop (design ideas for usc, nautilus, apps, unity, etc.). > > so there is some confusion if those topics will have another place

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

I think, having the dash window attached to the left and above panel is giving several consistency problem. This exceptional behavior, that is has to have launcher revealed and transparent effect, is creating a special to deal with to make changes in the design. I don't know what are the good point

Re: [Unity-design] Good bye Ayatana, welcome to Unity

Is good to have focus. But ayatana was more like a "general" place for ideas for different parts of the ubuntu-desktop (design ideas for usc, nautilus, apps, unity, etc.). so there is some confusion if those topics will have another place or they can still be submited here ? > Date: Wed, 8 Fe

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

I don't mind this change, except currently reveal just isn't working consistently :( I assume a bug has been filed. On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 9:23 PM, Evan Huus wrote: > Hi all, > > I just updated to the latest Unity pre-release on Precise and the way > the launcher hides has changed. > > Previously

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On 08/02/12 15:38, Petko wrote: On 02/08/2012 04:40 PM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: I didn't phrase the question well, sorry. The total number of preferences, settings, and options across the WHOLE ubuntu system should stay constant or decrease. Which two options from anywhere in System Setting

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 15:49, tommy wrote: > > b)in case launcher is set to dodge, We let the top bar cover the whole > > top edge and move the window control button to the top left. It also > > works fine because when somebody invokes the left launcher then, in my > > personal thinking, he won'

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

2012/2/8 Michael Hall > > > On 02/08/2012 09:49 AM, tommy wrote: > >> If minimize by launcher were possible, I could simply Super+1, Super+3, >> Super+7 and I'm all done having few windows I want, insted of 20 clicks >> and moving mouse along the whole desktop. >> > > I haven't had a use for mini

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

Multiple usecases including one that is currently my life. One rather large PDF ebook open to a specific page, a few reference tables and chemical structure drawings open. One primary browser window for doing my homework, which can be time intensive. Having all the reference material on screen at o

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

For example - to drag something from the desktop? Having few fullscreen apps forces me to minimize few apps - show desktop is not an option, because then I would have to reopen all windows I need. And because of ALT-TAB delay (have to wait 0.2ms for alt-tab to show up and navigate to show deskt

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On 02/08/2012 04:40 PM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: I didn't phrase the question well, sorry. The total number of preferences, settings, and options across the WHOLE ubuntu system should stay constant or decrease. Which two options from anywhere in System Settings would you propose to remove, t

Re: [Unity-design] Integrating Google's NaCl could help solve the Chicken and egg dilema in ubuntu?

On 08/02/12 15:22, Stefanos Apostolopoulos wrote: 2012/2/8 James Gifford > Not to be a killjoy, but may I ask exactly what this has to do with [Unity-design]? I love the idea as well, would just like to keep this in the appropriate place. :) I'm not

Re: [Unity-design] Integrating Google's NaCl could help solve the Chicken and egg dilema in ubuntu?

2012/2/8 James Gifford > Not to be a killjoy, but may I ask exactly what this has to do with > [Unity-design]? I love the idea as well, would just like to keep this in > the appropriate place. :) > I'm not the original poster, but the original question was how to integrate NaCl into Unity seamle

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On 02/08/2012 09:49 AM, tommy wrote: If minimize by launcher were possible, I could simply Super+1, Super+3, Super+7 and I'm all done having few windows I want, insted of 20 clicks and moving mouse along the whole desktop. I haven't had a use for minimizing windows in well over a year. Betwe

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

> b)in case launcher is set to dodge, We let the top bar cover the whole > top edge and move the window control button to the top left. It also > works fine because when somebody invokes the left launcher then, in my > personal thinking, he won't be using window control button. So, if they > goes

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On 08/02/12 14:23, Petko wrote: On 02/08/2012 03:40 PM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: You didn't answer the question. The total number of options will stay the same or decrease. Which TWO options do you propose to remove, since in your view they are less important than the option to have a window

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On 02/08/2012 04:20 PM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: On 08/02/12 14:06, tommy wrote: I'm not an artist, but maybe this: http://luxperpetua.net/ubuntu/screenshot2.jpg In the red area there could be a place where window icon resides (currently Ubuntu is missing that). In the future maybe put most re

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 14:45, tommy wrote: > Sorry for repost. > > W dniu 2012-02-08 14:45, tommy pisze: > >> I really like the current idea of removing the "Dodge" feature. > > I also like it and have my 11.10 set that way. > But >> window controls for maximized window are slightly to the left

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

Hi Tommy, ... On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 1:57 PM, tommy wrote: > > http://luxperpetua.net/ubuntu/**screenshot.jpg While I can agree this doesn't look particularly elegant, it uses at least the same pattern of the Dash (where the launcher is visible). Fo

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

I thought this is the current default and and will be the only option? Well, in that case, where we will have two different launcher behaviours, I don't think that anything reasonable can be done except for moving the menu alongside with the launcher when in auto-hide mode, or leave it as it is

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On 02/08/2012 03:40 PM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: You didn't answer the question. The total number of options will stay the same or decrease. Which TWO options do you propose to remove, since in your view they are less important than the option to have a window-dodging launcher? The thing is

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On 08/02/12 14:06, tommy wrote: I'm not an artist, but maybe this: http://luxperpetua.net/ubuntu/screenshot2.jpg In the red area there could be a place where window icon resides (currently Ubuntu is missing that). In the future maybe put most recent actions there, or HUD launcher? Problem i

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

I'm not an artist, but maybe this: http://luxperpetua.net/ubuntu/screenshot2.jpg In the red area there could be a place where window icon resides (currently Ubuntu is missing that). In the future maybe put most recent actions there, or HUD launcher? W dniu 2012-02-08 15:00, Mark Shuttleworth

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On 08/02/12 13:57, tommy wrote: Sure: http://luxperpetua.net/ubuntu/screenshot.jpg Notice that window controls are slightly to the left of upper left corner of maximized Firefox window. This applies to all windows. Yes, that is a bit crap in the current implementation. Mockups for improveme

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

Sure: http://luxperpetua.net/ubuntu/screenshot.jpg Notice that window controls are slightly to the left of upper left corner of maximized Firefox window. This applies to all windows. W dniu 2012-02-08 14:46, Mark Shuttleworth pisze: On 08/02/12 13:45, tommy wrote: I really like the current

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On 8 February 2012 08:36, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > On 08/02/12 12:51, Remco wrote: >> >> In my view, 'dodge' is simply 'autohide' with the extra feature that it >> doesn't hide when it is unnecessary. This makes it always better than >> autohide. > > > Please re-read my email describing the test

[Unity-design] Good bye Ayatana, welcome to Unity

Hi, You may have noticed that the Ayatana mailing lists have been migrated recently and been renamed with a new set of unity-* names. The former ayatana list is now: unity-design. And ayatana-dev has been renamed into unity-dev. The goal for this change is to reflect and clarify the importan

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On 02/08/2012 03:22 PM, Thorsten Wilms wrote: On 02/08/2012 02:03 PM, Petko wrote: Here I see no reason to remove the options , since even if someone doesn't understand an entry in the list - they just won't use it , if they've got to the list once , they can do it again ,it's not a change that

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

Sorry for repost. W dniu 2012-02-08 14:45, tommy pisze: I really like the current idea of removing the "Dodge" feature. But window controls for maximized window are slightly to the left of the window's top left corner, so this might be confusing. Aligning the buttons plus click twice launcher ic

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On 08/02/12 13:13, C. Cooke wrote: What about thinking about some research into the top five or six things that people find confusing or frustrating during the first few days of use? It's that time period which really makes the first impression, after all. The first hour is make-or-break, an

Re: [Unity-design] [Unity-dev] Looking for ways to make Ubuntu Unity work better with VMware Unity

Le 07/02/2012 21:04, Jason 'vanRijn' Kasper a écrit : Hey all, Is it possible to do this currently? Was Ubuntu Unity designed with the thought that users might want to turn off elements of it without having to logout and login again? Hi Jason, Just in case I have also forwarded that message

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On 08/02/12 12:51, Remco wrote: In my view, 'dodge' is simply 'autohide' with the extra feature that it doesn't hide when it is unnecessary. This makes it always better than autohide. Please re-read my email describing the test results. 'extra feature' translates to 'total confusion when maxi

Re: [Unity-design] Integrating Google's NaCl could help solve the Chicken and egg dilema in ubuntu?

Not to be a killjoy, but may I ask exactly what this has to do with [Unity-design]? I love the idea as well, would just like to keep this in the appropriate place. :) On Feb 8, 2012, at 7:47 AM, Omar B. wrote: > > > > > Mainstream and mission critical apps/games? > > What keeps users in

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On 02/08/2012 02:03 PM, Petko wrote: Here I see no reason to remove the options , since even if someone doesn't understand an entry in the list - they just won't use it , if they've got to the list once , they can do it again ,it's not a change that breaks their system. One (quite generally app

Re: [Unity-design] Integrating Google's NaCl could help solve the Chicken and egg dilema in ubuntu?

AWESOME. Truly, the only thing that is miss on Ubuntu often is the apps. Many application are either available only for windows, or in some cases mac, or just are not updated properly. This will be a big step forward. Kudos On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 14:09, Stefanos Apostolopoulos wrote: > All I ca

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On Wed, Feb 08, 2012 at 12:30:41PM +, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > On 08/02/12 12:17, C. Cooke wrote: > >This just makes me feel it's absolutely essential to have some sort of > >introduction app run automatically after installation or dist-upgrade. > >Telling users they can hide the bar would

[Unity-design] HUD not working

Hi, yesterday I have downloaded and created USB Ubuntu, but cannot istall HUD anymore. What is happening? Supernova -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~unity-design Post to : unity-design@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~unity-design More help : https://help.laun

Re: [Unity-design] Integrating Google's NaCl could help solve the Chicken and egg dilema in ubuntu?

All I can say is a huge thumbs up for this proposal! I've been dreaming of this ever since NaCl was first announced. Well, it's not just an announcement now: it's here, it works and it's been getting lots of attention. This would open up a huge market for Ubuntu. The necessary pieces are there, t

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On 02/08/2012 02:39 PM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: But is it worth it? Saying no to options is an important discipline if you want to contribute here. Saying yes always is an easy route to failure. For a start, if we said that the total number of options had to stay the same or decrease over ti

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 13:39, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > Dodge at least sets the user up to expect some sort of movement of the > launcher based on the movement of something else. 'Smart' could mean > *anything*. Is it smart because it puts things there you are going to want? > Does it install app

[Unity-design] Integrating Google's NaCl could help solve the Chicken and egg dilema in ubuntu?

Mainstream and mission critical apps/games? What keeps users in windows ? Exactly those apps. Ubuntu has indeed made some advances getting a few more apps and games, but is still very far far away from actually being near to solving bug #1? Google has also undertaken this mission (

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On 08/02/12 12:29, Petko wrote: On 02/08/2012 01:37 PM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: . It also turns out that users who can work with dodging launchers can also work perfectly well with launchers which always hide when not used. That is true but is no reason to remove the "dodge" option. I

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On 08/02/12 12:17, C. Cooke wrote: Damn, that makes me sad. I really like the dodge windows feature, but I can see the confusion it could bring. Me too. Loved the idea, approved it, and it subtly sucked in practice. Ain't design a bitch :) This just makes me feel it's absolutely essential

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On 02/08/2012 01:37 PM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: . It also turns out that users who can work with dodging launchers can also work perfectly well with launchers which always hide when not used. That is true but is no reason to remove the "dodge" option. I can work with whatever launcher

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

Hi, On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 8:37 AM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > Here's the problem. Most users don't discover the dodging by moving a window > till it touches the launcher. They first encounter it when they maximise a > window. So, they login to the desktop. Good. They start an app. Good. Then > t

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On Wed, Feb 08, 2012 at 11:37:58AM +, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > >In fact, the dodge-windows approach tested very poorly. We thought it >would work well, tried it, tested it, and have had to evolve from there >based on evidence. >Here's the problem. Most users don't discover

Re: [Unity-design] No more dodge windows in Unity?

On 08/02/12 02:23, Evan Huus wrote: Previously the default was for it to dodge windows - now, it is automatically set to never hide. The Appearance->Behaviour settings allow configuring always-hide and never-hide, but do not allow configuring the old 'dodge windows' method. On the assumption th