ase consider the environment before printing this email.
-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Ray
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 4:51 PM
To:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Grounding Top of Pole Mount Array with a Ufer
We always put our assump
alf Of Ray
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 4:51 PM
To:
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org [6]
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Grounding
Top of Pole Mount Array with a Ufer
We always put our assumption in our
plan notes, based on our interpretation of 250.52(A)(7). AHJs have never
questioned it, and we also tie th
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Please consider the environment before printing this email.
-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of Ray
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2021 4:51 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: R
e-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Grounding Top of Pole Mount Array with a Ufer
We always put our assumption in our plan notes, based on our interpretation of
250.52(A)(7). AHJs have never questioned it, and we also tie the pole to any
rebar, so its all one big happy
We always put our assumption in our plan notes, based on our
interpretation of 250.52(A)(7). AHJs have never questioned it, and we
also tie the pole to any rebar, so its all one big happy grounding
electrode.
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
On 6/24/21 6:49 PM, frenergy wrote:
Ray,
Ray,
I couldn't agree more, its been my experience over the
years that using 20 feet of #4 rebar in a building's footing was kosher
and accepted NEC 250.52(3). There's a heck of a lot more surface area
in 8" pipe 5-6 feet into the earth than rebar in a foundation footing.
The gr
Usually a steel pole in concrete has enough surface area to qualify as a
plate electrode under 250.52(A)(7). It needs to be at least 2 sq ft and
1/4" thick, and have an electrically conductive surface. So we just
drill and tap our ground connection into the pole, near the combiner box.
Ray W
, June 18, 2018 11:28 AM
*To:* 'RE-wrenches'; 'AE Solar'
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding on metal roofs
NEC 250.4(A)4 Also states that normally non-current-carrying electrically
conductive materials that are likely to become energized shall be connected
together an
rograms *
>
>
>
>
> ***This email may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or
> otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the
> addressee, or if it appears that you have received this email in error,
> please advise me immediately
Company
From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of
br...@willpowerelect.com
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2018 1:42 PM
To: RE-wrenches ; AE Solar
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding on metal roofs
NEC 690.47 (A) requires the array to be grounded, not necessarily the roof. If
you have bonded the rails
ou are not the addressee, or if it appears that you have received this email in error, please advise me immediately by reply email, keep the contents confidential, and immediately delete the message and any attachments from your system.
Original Message ----
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches
Just beneath the array, and usually the pan on either side of the array
footprint.
Glenn
Sent from my 'smart' phone so please excuse spelling and typos.
-- Original message--From: Benn KilburnDate: Mon, Jun 18, 2018 11:31
AMTo: RE-wrenches;Cc: Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding on metal
Glenn,
Would you Bond/ground every metal pan or only the ones beneath the array?
Benn Kilburn
SkyFire Energy
780-906-7807
> On Jun 17, 2018, at 11:46 AM, "glenn.b...@glbcc.com"
> wrote:
>
> We use the Ilsco SGB-4 ground lug on every pan under the array for
> residential systems.
>
> -Glenn
>
Depends on the seam profile. Same device may be used in many cases. We have
Also drilled and used the standard direct burial lugs on the underside of the
pans, at the wave when they hang over enough to get working space. Then a
horizontal run of copper wire to connect.
Don't be lulled into think
thanks glenn. and what about commercial? anyone have code references
regarding grounding when doing solar on metal roofs? i thought a few years
back there was a conversation on this but i can't seem to find it.
Adam Katzman
Autonomous Energies
PO Box 1245
Kingston, NY 12402
www.autonomousenergies.
I always recommend grounding the metal roof also, even without panels on them.
most of the sealing methods we use can insulate the rack from the roof
S5 type clamps being an exception
Just a couple thoughts from an overheated brain !
Bob Ellison
> On Jun 17, 2018, at 1:46 PM, "glenn.b...@glbcc.
We use the Ilsco SGB-4 ground lug on every pan under the array for residential
systems.
-Glenn
Sent from my Verizon LG Smartphone
-- Original message--From: AE SolarDate: Sun, Jun 17, 2018 12:29 PMTo:
RE-wrenches;Cc: Subject:[RE-wrenches] grounding on metal roofs
wrenchers,what methods ar
It looks like there is a bonding screw just below where the bare equipment
grounding conductor lands? That bonds that grounding lugs set to the panel
enclosure. You can always do a continuity test from point to point to determine
if they are bonded.
Michael D Nelson
MD Electric & Solar, Inc.
70
Indeed,
What if I ground each frame with a lug and wire, then I don't have to
ground the rail? What if I WEEB (bond)the frame to the rail and ground the
rail with a lug and wire, then I don't have to ground the rail
support/post/attachment/flashing? What if I ground my hypothetical first
plate by
Thanks Drake,
My question goes to the situation where the two plates are in physical
contact, but without any other provision to mechanically connect or
electrically bond them.
Mark
> If the plates are bolted together, then they are bonded to each other.
>
> At 01:33 AM 7/27/2012, you wrote:
>
Mark,
Good question... Whether or not to bond metal pieces in contact with other
"already bonded" metal pieces???
Unless i'm reading it wrong, if your T/F question is false, then you would
need to bond each/every L-foot that a mounting rail is bolted to. No?
benn
DayStar Renewable Energy Inc.
w
If the plates are bolted together, then they are bonded to each other.
At 01:33 AM 7/27/2012, you wrote:
Mark,
If you look at NEC 250.104(C), you'll find that you have to bond structural
metal that is "likely to become energized". The phrase "likely to become
energized" is not defined, and is
Mark,
If you look at NEC 250.104(C), you'll find that you have to bond structural
metal that is "likely to become energized". The phrase "likely to become
energized" is not defined, and is up to the AHJ. I would guess most AHJ's
would consider the second metal plate to already be bonded since it i
ckenbush
NABCEP-certified PV Installer
Peripatetic Solar Technician
From: Ray Walters
To: RE-wrenches
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Grounding Separately Derived AC System
I can see the confusion over this. We've
*To:* 'RE-wrenches'
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 24, 2012 6:43 AM
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Grounding Separately Derived AC System
Regarding NEC Article 250.30 does Informational Note #1 mean that a
standard (no battery) grid-tied PV system is not a Separately Derived
System?
I'm
12 6:43 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Grounding Separately Derived AC System
Regarding NEC Article 250.30 does Informational Note #1 mean that a standard
(no battery) grid-tied PV system is not a Separately Derived System?
I’m primarily interested on the consensus view of Bonding the Neutral
I agree and read it the same way. Not a separately derived system.
Jesse
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 23, 2012, at 7:13 PM, "Dave Palumbo"
wrote:
> Regarding NEC Article 250.30 does Informational Note #1 mean that a standard
> (no battery) grid-tied PV system is not a Separately Derived Syst
I agree, no bonding jumper from neutral to ground in a grid tied system
disconnect. It's not a Separately derived system by NEC definition. The
premises does have grid power and pv power, but they are from the same
system. That's how I see it.
--
Alex Cozine
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installe
That's always been my interpretation as well, reinforced at seminars
with John Wiles and Bill Brooks.
Ray Walters
On 1/23/2012 6:13 PM, Dave Palumbo wrote:
Regarding NEC Article 250.30 Informational Note #1 //
//
My interpretation is that a standard net-metered PV system is
therefore not a
Regarding NEC Article 250.30 does Informational Note #1 mean that a standard
(no battery) grid-tied PV system is not a Separately Derived System?
I'm primarily interested on the consensus view of Bonding the Neutral
(grounded conductor) to Equipment Ground in a 60 Amp Fused Disconnect
located b
I did one very similar in western Minnesota, high sand soil in an area that has
a fairly high lightening strike count, I ran the equipment ground back along
with the conductors, I also used an 8" post hole digger with an extension to go
down 5 feet, filled it with concrete around the 1.5" galva
Jesse,
I use a Wiley WEEB 9.5 bonding washers between each module and rail, a
WEEB 6.7 lug on each rail, and a WEEB 6.7 on the pole.
Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar, Inc.
Jesse Dahl wrote:
Hello,
I have been looking at ground mount methods lately, specifically
the DPW Multi-Pol
I think 690.47 C 3 covers this in the new 2011 code. The info notes 1 &
2 also yield more clarification. As always confusion reins until we get
some actual interpretation from Bill Brooks or John Wiles, as all of
this was completely rewritten. Feel free to correct me, any and
everyone, but this
Aaron,
I am still back at NEC 2008 on this but see 690.47 (C), especially (3) ..a
single conductor shall be permitted to be used to perform the multiple
functions of dc grounding, ac grouding,.(5) a common buss bar shall be
permitted to be used for both systems (6) a common grounding electrod
We have put 12VDC/120VAC systems on many boat docks here on our lakes. The
inverter/batteries are the ground as they are the source. We have had several
of these structures take a lightening hit and in all cases our equipment has
survived. The only clue is a blown fuse between the solar panel an
We have developed some off grid 12/24/48 Vdc and dc/120Vac systems for
use in aquaculture that are basically in the tidal of estuaries, far
from shore. We have attempted to create a earth coupled ground by
grounding the system to copper conductors looped in the salt water.
On 8/9/2011 8:40 AM
If the DC & AC float from the ground, your clients will effectively be
insulated from any current path unless they were to somehow touch both
conductors simultaneously. Many countries do not reference one of their current
carrying conductors to ground. Many people feel this is safer. You would
I think the system would be technically required to have an equipment
grounding conductor to connect to lighting fixtures made of
conductive material. I believe this is true regardless of voltage.
If these do not exist, and no metal boxes are in the system and it is
only 12 V, then it might b
enches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf
Of Jesse Dahl
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 10:40 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Grounding system for a shack on a
frozen lake?
I have the very system you are talking about in my fish
house. I don't
ay, August 09, 2011 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Grounding system for a shack on a frozen lake?
It sounds like you want an AC system for your "home theater" system, so make
sure you get a mobile rated inverter if you plan to have a backup AC source.
That way you will have int
ve any effect at all?
Charlie Pickard
Aladdin Solar
- Original Message -
From: Ray Walters
To: RE-wrenches
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Grounding system for a shack on a frozen lake?
There are many RVs out there too, and they don
It sounds like you want an AC system for your "home theater" system, so make
sure you get a mobile rated inverter if you plan to have a backup AC source.
That way you will have integral neutral-ground bond switching. The mobile
versions are rarely much more $, if at all. Try Magnum or Outback.
I have the very system you are talking about in my fish house. I don't
ground, I only have DC loads.
Jesse Dahl
> Why ground it at all?
>
> For a low voltage 12v nominal system you can per code install a + and - OC
> protection and no ground.
> But if it was me, I wouldn't ground it at all,
>
There are many RVs out there too, and they don't sink a ground rod every
time they park.
Use a GFCI outlet, and I think you'll be at the same safety level as
other portable systems.
(Is there an ice structure building inspector?)
You could still heat up a copper rod with a torch and then drive i
Why ground it at all?
For a low voltage 12v nominal system you can per code install a + and - OC
protection and no ground.
But if it was me, I wouldn't ground it at all,
jay
peltz power
On Aug 8, 2011, at 10:34 PM, Aladdin Solar wrote:
> Sounds like a silly question but is there any way to gr
First .. why are you grounding a portable system? It's not required.
In [29 CFR 1926.404(f)(3)(i)], OSHA states the frame of a portable
generator need not be grounded (connected to earth).
If it's a fuel-powered generator, the NEC 250.34 states the frame may
serve as the ground as long as normal
Per 690.41 you probably wouldn't need to ground it for a system like
this, but I like the idea of dropping a ground rod down into the water.
Then curve the end and find a big worm, of course.
**
690.41 System Grounding. For a photovoltaic power source, one conductor
of a 2-wire system with a p
That is an amusing concept, and it sounds like a fun project. Why
not poke a hole in the ice and drop the rod in the water? If the
water is not too deep, send it to the bottom. It certainly will be
below the permanent moisture level!
At 01:34 AM 8/9/2011, you wrote:
Sounds like a silly qu
olar.com (email)
> www.brooksolar.com (web)
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jason
> Szumlanski
> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 12:55 PM
> To: RE-wrench
Frye
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 12:08 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding the Enphase inverter
I guess the thinking is that DC side of the Enphase is grounded and
therefore a separately derived system requiring it's own system grounding.
This is achieved by
(530) 401-8024
<http://www.berkeleysolar.com/> www.berkeleysolar.com
_
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 5:51 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [
hes-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William
Miller
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 9:58 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding the Enphase inverter
Bill:
Other than complying just because this is a rule that has to be followed,
is there any logical foundation to the requ
To: RE-wrenches
Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 10:53:46 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding the Enphase inverter
Yes, but that comes from the assumption that the inverter constitutes a
seperately derived "system".
But if the only purpose or use of the DC power derived from the DC sy
I would like to remember us all back to 16-20 years ago when
we were required to use a ground cable "equal" to the
largest conductor in the system. This was typically sized by
the inverter cable at 4/0 copper. I gotta say that was a
really dumb rule.
At that time we were to "not create " ground lo
A 95959
> (530) 401-8024
> www.berkeleysolar.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks
> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 9:51 AM
> To: 'RE-wrenches'
On Behalf Of Bill Brooks
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 9:51 AM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding the Enphase inverter
System grounding requirements.
-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrench
at all?
Jason Szumlanski
Fafco Solar
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William
Miller
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 12:58 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding the Enphase inverter
Bill:
Ot
nches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Mark Frye
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 7:51 AM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding the Enphase inverter
The interesting thing to me is the underlying assumption in the Code that a
System grounding requirements.
-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Mark Frye
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 7:51 AM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding the Enphase inv
ehalf Of Bill Brooks
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:48 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding the Enphase inverter
All,
While there is ambiguity in the 2008 NEC in 690.47(C) on the requirements
for system grounding of PV systems, the 2011 NEC in 690.47(C) clari
: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bill
Brooks
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:48 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding the Enphase inverter
All,
While there is ambiguity in the 2008 NEC in 69
ason Szumlanski
Fafco Solar
-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bill
Brooks
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 1:48 AM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding the Enphase inver
anski
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 12:55 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding the Enphase inverter
I don't see it in your comments. At least that wasn't clear. Anyway, in
that case there is absolutely no reason to use the inverter ground clip.
The whole purpose of the
SE
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 8:46 AM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding the Enphase inverter
"As an aside, why didn't you use approved WEEB's to bond the inverters
to
the rails? This eliminates the ground wire to each inverter. Simpler
IMHO.&q
A-eligible Installer
VT Solar Incentive Program Partner
-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jason
Szumlanski
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 6:56 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] g
As an aside, why didn't you use approved WEEB's to bond the inverters to
the rails? This eliminates the ground wire to each inverter. Simpler
IMHO.
Anyway, what we are seeing in some jurisdictions is the requirement for
the additional grounding electrode (690.47(D)) even when there is a good
argum
Wrenches:
I use WEEB for Enphase, WEEB lugs and jumpers for the rails, and WEEB for
modules, except with SunPower, which uses the GBL-4DBT. If the lug isn't
bolted
on, it probably isn't bonded.
The problem here is UL, not WEEB. I do not share Augusts concerns.
I still feel that
boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Mark Frye
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 7:22 AM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Grounding detached buildings
Try 250.32. In this case, you consider that the panels at the home are
Try 250.32. In this case, you consider that the panels at the home are not
actually new "service enterance" equipment. The "service" is up at the shed
and the home is part of two or more buildings supplied from a common
service.
Mark Frye
Berkeley Solar Electric Systems
303 Redbud Way
Nevada
ground. We had a problem a few years
back an electrical storm wiped out about 10 plus differential controllers.
DT
--- On Mon, 9/21/09, solar...@aol.com wrote:
> From: solar...@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding of hot water collectors
> To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.o
This seem ridiculous to me. the idea that an inspector is having you
ground a hot water collector is akin to requiring a pressure relief valve on
a pv module. Or am I missing something here? Ask the manufacturer of the
hot water panel where in the UL listed connection point for the bo
I have seen problems if the array is not grounded.
dt
--- On Mon, 9/21/09, Kirk Herander, VSE wrote:
> From: Kirk Herander, VSE
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] grounding of hot water collectors
> To: "'RE-wrenches'"
> Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 12:50 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Kirk,
What is his logic?
Are you running the circulator with PV mounted on the collectors?
Is the house plumbing grounded?
Doug Wells
The Solar Specialists
Morrisville, VT 05661
(p) 802-223-7014
(c) 802-498-5856
www.thesolarspecialists.com
___
Lis
around a bolt that have not failed.
Darryl
--- On Mon, 8/3/09, David Palumbo wrote:
> From: David Palumbo
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Grounding SHW collectors
> To: "'RE-wrenches'"
> Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 6:50 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
&g
How many of you ground the copper pipe at your flat plate collectors by
bringing down a ground wire to a ground rod(s)? We asked Shuco and received
this response from an engineer there.
"No grounding necessary. The reason being all that copper piping going back
to the ground via the water suppl
Chris -
I personally like the Wiley Ground lug (http://www.we-llc.com/WEEB.html)
although it is a bit expensive. It bolts onto the rail via a 1/4" bolt in the
rail's top extruded slot.
I've seen too many loose lugs when using the 10-32 tap method, it's too easy to
strip the soft aluminum.
-
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