On May 17, 5:03 pm, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On May 16, 6:38 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Are you worried that some 3rd-party package you have
> > included in your software will have some non-ascii identifiers
> > buried in it somewhere? Surely that is easy to check for
Istvan Albert wrote:
> On May 19, 3:33 am, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> >That would be invalid syntax since the third line is an assignment
>> > with target identifiers separated only by spaces.
>>
>> Plus, the identifier starts with a number (even though ６ is not DIGIT
>
On May 19, 3:33 am, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >That would be invalid syntax since the third line is an assignment
> > with target identifiers separated only by spaces.
>
> Plus, the identifier starts with a number (even though ６ is not DIGIT
> SIX, but FULLWIDTH DIGIT SIX,
Martin v. Löwis wrote:
> Python code is written by many people in the world who are not familiar
> with the English language, or even well-acquainted with the Latin
> writing system.
I believe that there is a not a single programmer in the world who doesn't
know ASCII. It isn't hard to learn the l
Martin v. Löwis schrieb:
>>> Then get tools that match your working environment.
>> Integration with existing tools *is* something that a PEP should
>> consider. This one does not do that sufficiently, IMO.
>
> What specific tools should be discussed, and what specific problems
> do you expect?
S
Martin v. Löwis schrieb:
> I've reported this before, but happily do it again: I have lived many
> years without knowing what a "hub" is, and what "to pass" means if
> it's not the opposite of "to fail". Yet, I have used their technical
> meanings correctly all these years.
I was not speaking of t
On Fri, 18 May 2007 06:28:03 +0200, Martin v. Löwis wrote:
[excellent as always exposition by Martin]
Thanks, Martin.
> P.S. Anybody who wants to play with generating visualisations
> of the PEP, here are the functions I used:
[code snippets]
Thanks for those functions, too -- I've been explo
>> But you're making a strawman argument by using extended ASCII
>> characters that would work anyhow. How about debugging this (I wonder
>> will it even make it through?) :
>>
>> class ６자회담관련론조
>>６자회 = 0
>>６자회담관련 고귀 명=10
>
>That would be invalid syntax since the third line is an assig
> Providing a method that would translate an arbitrary string into a
> valid Python identifier would be helpful. It would be even more
> helpful if it could provide a way of converting untranslatable
> characters. However, I suspect that the translate (normalize?) routine
> in the unicode module wi
<@yahoo.com> escribió:
>> > Perhaps, but the treatment by your mail/news software plus the
>> > delightful Google Groups of the original text (which seemed intact in
>> > the original, although I don't have the fonts for the content) would
>> > suggest that not just social or cultural issues would
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
> opposed. But dismissing the fact that Outlook and other quite common
> tools may have severe problems with code seems naive (or disingenuous,
> but I don't think that's the case here).
Of course there is broken software out there. There are even editors
that mix tab
On May 13, 9:44 am, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> PEP 1 specifies that PEP authors need to collect feedback from the
> community. As the author of PEP 3131, I'd like to encourage comments
> to the PEP included below, either here (comp.lang.python), or to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> In
Istvan Albert:
> But you're making a strawman argument by using extended ASCII
> characters that would work anyhow. How about debugging this (I wonder
> will it even make it through?) :
>
> class ６자회담관련론조
>６자회 = 0
>６자회담관련 고귀 명=10
That would be invalid syntax since the third line is a
Gregor Horvath wrote:
> Paul Boddie schrieb:
>
> > Perhaps, but the treatment by your mail/news software plus the
> > delightful Google Groups of the original text (which seemed intact in
> > the original, although I don't have the fonts for the content) would
> > suggest that not just social or cu
On May 18, 1:47 pm, "Javier Bezos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> This question is more or less what a Korean who doesn't
> >> speak English would ask if he had to debug a program
> >> written in English.
>
> > Perhaps, but the treatment by your mail/news software plus the
> > delightful Google Gr
>> This question is more or less what a Korean who doesn't
>> speak English would ask if he had to debug a program
>> written in English.
>
> Perhaps, but the treatment by your mail/news software plus the
> delightful Google Groups of the original text (which seemed intact in
> the original, altho
Paul Boddie schrieb:
> Perhaps, but the treatment by your mail/news software plus the
> delightful Google Groups of the original text (which seemed intact in
> the original, although I don't have the fonts for the content) would
> suggest that not just social or cultural issues would be involved.
On 18 Mai, 18:42, "Javier Bezos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Istvan Albert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió:
>
> > How about debugging this (I wonder will it even make it through?) :
>
> > class 6???
>
> > 6?? = 0
> > 6? ?? ?=10
>
> This question is more or less what a Korean who doesn'
Istvan Albert schrieb:
> On May 17, 2:30 pm, Gregor Horvath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Is there any difference for you in debugging this code snippets?
>
>> class Türstock(object):
>
> Of course there is, how do I type the ü ? (I can copy/paste for
> example, but that gets old quick).
>
I
"Istvan Albert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió:
> How about debugging this (I wonder will it even make it through?) :
>
> class 6???
> 6?? = 0
> 6? ?? ?=10
This question is more or less what a Korean who doesn't
speak English would ask if he had to debug a program
written in English.
On May 17, 2:30 pm, Gregor Horvath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is there any difference for you in debugging this code snippets?
> class Türstock(object):
Of course there is, how do I type the ü ? (I can copy/paste for
example, but that gets old quick).
But you're making a strawman argument by
Hendrik van Rooyen schrieb:
> I suppose that this "one language track" - mindedness of mine
> is why I find the mix of keywords and German or Afrikaans so
> abhorrent - I cannot really help it, it feels as if I am eating a
> sandwich, and that I bite on a stone in the bread. - It just jars.
Ple
=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiB2LiBMw7Z3aXMi?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 3) Is or will there be a definitive and exhaustive listing (with
>> bitmap representations of the glyphs to avoid the font issues) of the
>> glyphs that the PEP 3131 would allow in identifiers? (Does this
>> question even make sens
Long and interresting discussion with different point of view.
Personnaly, even if the PEP goes (and its accepted), I'll continue to use
identifiers as currently. But I understand those who wants to be able to
use chars in their own language.
* for people which are not expert developers (non-pros
Hallöchen!
Laurent Pointal writes:
> [...]
>
> Personnaly, even if the PEP goes (and its accepted), I'll continue
> to use identifiers as currently. [...]
Me too (mostly), although I do like the PEP. While many people have
pointed out possible issues of the PEP, only few have tried to
estimate
Hallöchen!
Martin v. Löwis writes:
>> In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Nick Craig-Wood
>> wrote:
>>
>>> My initial reaction is that it would be cool to use all those
>>> great symbols. A variable called OHM etc!
>>
>> This is a nice candidate for homoglyph confusion. There's the
>> Greek letter omega
"Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> If you doubt the claim, please indicate which of these three aspects
> you doubt:
> 1. there are programmers which desire to defined classes and functions
>with names in their native language.
> 2. those developers find the code clearer and more m
"Sion Arrowsmith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hvr:
>>Would not like it at all, for the same reason I don't like re's -
>>It looks like random samples out of alphabet soup to me.
>
>What I meant was, would the use of "foreign" identifiers look so
>horrible to you if the core language had fewer Engli
"Hendrik van Rooyen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> > > Now look me in the eye and tell me that you find
> > > the mix of proper German and English keywords
> > > beautiful.
> >
> > I can't admit that, but I find that using German
> > class and method names is beautiful. The rest around
> >
"Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Integration with existing tools *is* something that a PEP should
> > consider. This one does not do that sufficiently, IMO.
> What specific tools should be discussed, and what specific problems
> do you expect?
Emacs, whose unicode support is still
"Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Now I understand it is meaning 12 in Merriam-Webster's dictionary,
> a) "to decline to bid, double, or redouble in a card game", or b)
> "to let something go by without accepting or taking
> advantage of it".
I never thought of it as having that mean
> Possibly. One Java program I remember had Japanese comments encoded
> in Shift-JIS. Will Python be better here? Will it support the source
> code encodings that programmers around the world expect?
It's not a question of "will it". It does today, starting from Python 2.3.
>> Another possible
> Currently, in Python 2.5, identifiers are specified as starting with
> an upper- or lowercase letter or underscore ('_') with the following
> "characters" of the identifier also optionally being a numerical digit
> ("0"..."9").
>
> This current state seems easy to remember even if felt restricti
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
> With the second one, all my standard tools would work fine. My user's
> setups will work with it. And there's a much higher chance that all
> the intervening systems will work with it.
>
Please fix your setup.
This is the 21st Century. Unicode is the default in Pyt
=?ISO-8859-15?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>One possible reason is that the tools processing the program would not
>know correctly what encoding the source file is in, and would fail
>when they guessed the encoding incorrectly. For comments, that is not
>a problem, as a
Martin v. Löwis wrote:
> Neil Hodgson schrieb:
>> Martin v. Löwis:
>>
>>> ... regardless of whether this PEP gets accepted
>>> or not (which it just did).
>>Which version can we expect this to be implemented in?
>
> The PEP says 3.0, and the planned implementation also targets
> that release.
On May 16, 6:38 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On May 16, 11:41 am, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > Christophe wrote:
> snip...
> > > Who displays stack frames? Your code. Whose code includes unicode
> > > identifiers? Your code. Whose fault is it to create a stack trace
On Sun, 13 May 2007 17:44:39 +0200, Martin v. Löwis wrote:
> The syntax of identifiers in Python will be based on the Unicode
> standard annex UAX-31 [1]_, with elaboration and changes as defined
> below.
>
> Within the ASCII range (U+0001..U+007F), the valid characters for
> identifiers are the s
On May 16, 6:38 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On May 16, 11:41 am, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > Christophe wrote:
> snip...
> > > Who displays stack frames? Your code. Whose code includes unicode
> > > identifiers? Your code. Whose fault is it to create a stack trace
Neil Hodgson schrieb:
> Martin v. Löwis:
>
>> ... regardless of whether this PEP gets accepted
>> or not (which it just did).
>
>Which version can we expect this to be implemented in?
The PEP says 3.0, and the planned implementation also targets
that release.
Regards,
Martin
--
http://mail
Martin v. Löwis:
> ... regardless of whether this PEP gets accepted
> or not (which it just did).
Which version can we expect this to be implemented in?
Neil
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On May 17, 2:30 pm, Gregor Horvath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Istvan Albert schrieb:
>
>
>
> > After the first time that your programmer friends need fix a trivial
> > bug in a piece of code that does not display correctly in the terminal
> > I can assure you that their mellow acceptance will tur
>> At the same time it takes some mental effort to analyze and understand
>> all the implications of a feature, and without taking that effort
>> "something" will always beat "nothing".
>>
> Indeed. For example, getattr() and friends now have to accept Unicode
> arguments, and presumably to canonic
Gregor Horvath wrote:
> Istvan Albert schrieb:
>> After the first time that your programmer friends need fix a trivial
>> bug in a piece of code that does not display correctly in the terminal
>> I can assure you that their mellow acceptance will turn to something
>> entirely different.
>>
>
> Is
Istvan Albert wrote:
> On May 17, 9:07 am, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> up. I interviewed about 20 programmers (none of them Python users), and
>> most took the position "I might not use it myself, but it surely
>> can't hurt having it, and there surely are people who would us
Istvan Albert schrieb:
>
> After the first time that your programmer friends need fix a trivial
> bug in a piece of code that does not display correctly in the terminal
> I can assure you that their mellow acceptance will turn to something
> entirely different.
>
Is there any difference for you
On May 17, 4:56 am, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
...
> (look me in the eye and tell me that "def" is
> an English word, or that "getattr" is one)
That's not quite fair. They are not english
words but they are derived from english and
have a memonic value to english speakers that
t
On May 17, 9:07 am, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> up. I interviewed about 20 programmers (none of them Python users), and
> most took the position "I might not use it myself, but it surely
> can't hurt having it, and there surely are people who would use it".
Typically when you a
> I'd suggest restricting identifiers under the rules of UTS-39,
> profile 2, "Highly Restrictive". This limits mixing of scripts
> in a single identifier; you can't mix Hebrew and ASCII, for example,
> which prevents problems with mixing right to left and left to right
> scripts. Domain name
On May 16, 11:09 pm, Gregor Horvath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
>
> > On May 16, 12:54 pm, Gregor Horvath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Istvan Albert schrieb:
>
> >> So the solution is to forbid Chinese XP ?
Who said anything like that? It's just an example of surpris
On May 16, 8:49 pm, Gregor Horvath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
> >> 2) Create a way to internationalize the standard library (and possibly
> >> the language keywords, too). Ideally, create a general standardized way
> >> to internationalize code, possibly similiar to how
Martin v. Löwis schrieb:
> I've reported this before, but happily do it again: I have lived many
> years without knowing what a "hub" is, and what "to pass" means if
> it's not the opposite of "to fail". Yet, I have used their technical
> meanings correctly all these years.
That's not only true f
> I claim that this is *completely unrealistic*. When learning Python, you
> *do* learn the actual meanings of English terms like "open",
> "exception", "if" and so on if you did not know them before. It would be
> extremely foolish not to do so.
Having taught students for many years now, I can re
> However, what I want to see is how people deal with such issues when
> sharing their code: what are their experiences and what measures do
> they mandate to make it all work properly? You can see some
> discussions about various IDEs mandating UTF-8 as the default
> encoding, along with UTF-8 bei
> After 175 replies (and counting), the only thing that is clear is the
> controversy around this PEP. Most people are very strong for or
> against it, with little middle ground in between. I'm not saying that
> every change must meet 100% acceptance, but here there is definitely a
> strong opposit
> In the code I was looking at identifiers were allowed to use non-ASCII
> characters. For whatever reason, the programmers choose not use non-ASCII
> indentifiers even though they had no problem using non-ASCII characters
> in commonets.
One possible reason is that the tools processing the progr
René Fleschenberg schrieb:
> Stefan Behnel schrieb:
>> Then get tools that match your working environment.
>
> Integration with existing tools *is* something that a PEP should
> consider. This one does not do that sufficiently, IMO.
What specific tools should be discussed, and what specific probl
>> So, please provide feedback, e.g. perhaps by answering these
>> questions:
>> - should non-ASCII identifiers be supported? why?
>
> I think the biggest argument against this PEP is how little similar
> features are used in other languages and how poorly they are supported
> by third party utili
Hendrik van Rooyen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>"Sion Arrowsmith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
>>>I still don't like the thought of the horrible mix of "foreign"
>>>identifiers and English keywords, coupled with the English
>>>sentence construction.
>>How do you think you'
> > Now look me in the eye and tell me that you find
> > the mix of proper German and English keywords
> > beautiful.
>
> I can't admit that, but I find that using German
> class and method names is beautiful. The rest around
> it (keywords and names from the standard library)
> are not English
> You could say the same about Python standard library and keywords then.
> Shouldn't these also have to be translated? One can even push things a
> little further: I don't know about the languages used in the countries
> you mention, but for example, a simple construction like 'if
> ' will look w
> IMO, the burden of proof is on you. If this PEP has the potential to
> introduce another hindrance for code-sharing, the supporters of this PEP
> should be required to provide a "damn good reason" for doing so. So far,
> you have failed to do that, in my opinion. All you have presented are
> vagu
> Consequently, Python's keywords and even the standard library can
> exist with names being "just symbols" for many people.
I already told that on the py3k list: Until a week ago, I didn't know
why "pass" was chosen for the "no action" statement - with all my
English knowledge, I still could not
"Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
> I can't admit that, but I find that using German
> class and method names is beautiful. The rest around
> it (keywords and names from the standard library)
> are not English - they are Python.
>
> (look me in the eye and tell me that "def" is
> an English word, or that "
> A possible modification to the PEP would be to permit identifiers to
> also include \u and \U escape sequences (as some other
> languages already do).
Several languages do that (e.g. C and C++), but I deliberately left
this out, as I cannot see this work in a practical way. Also,
it
> Now look me in the eye and tell me that you find
> the mix of proper German and English keywords
> beautiful.
I can't admit that, but I find that using German
class and method names is beautiful. The rest around
it (keywords and names from the standard library)
are not English - they are Python.
>PEP 3131 uses a similar definition to C# except that PEP 3131
> disallows formatting characters (category Cf). See section 9.4.2 of
> http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-334.htm
UAX#31 discusses formatting characters in 2.2, and recognizes that
there might be good re
Hendrik van Rooyen schrieb:
> I can sympathise a little bit with a customer who tries to read code.
> Why that should be necessary, I cannot understand - does the stuff
> not work to the extent that the customer feels he has to help you?
> You do not talk as if you are incompetent, so I see no rea
"Gabriel Genellina" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> - Someone proposed using escape sequences of some kind, supported by
> editor plugins, so there is no need to modify the parser.
I'm not sure whether my suggestion below is the same as or a variation
on this.
>
> - Refactoring tools should let
"Gregor Horvath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hendrik van Rooyen schrieb:
>
> > It is not so much for technical reasons as for aesthetic
> > ones - I find reading a mix of languages horrible, and I am
> > kind of surprised by the strength of my own reaction.
>
> This is a matter of taste.
I
"Sion Arrowsmith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
>
>>I still don't like the thought of the horrible mix of "foreign"
>>identifiers and English keywords, coupled with the English
>>sentence construction.
>
>How do you think you'd feel if Python had less in the way of
>(con
On May 16, 1:37 pm, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On May 16, 12:54 pm, Gregor Horvath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Istvan Albert schrieb:
>
> > > Here is something that just happened and relates to this subject: I
> > > had to help a student run some python code on her laptop
En Mon, 14 May 2007 13:30:42 -0300, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió:
> Although probably not-sufficient to overcome this built-in
> bias, it would be interesting if some bi-lingual readers would
> raise this issue in some non-english Python discussion
> groups to see if the opposition to this idea is
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
> On May 16, 12:54 pm, Gregor Horvath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Istvan Albert schrieb:
>>
>> So the solution is to forbid Chinese XP ?
>>
>
> It's one solution, depending on your support needs.
>
That would be a rather arrogant solution.
You would consider droppin
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
>> 2) Create a way to internationalize the standard library (and possibly
>> the language keywords, too). Ideally, create a general standardized way
>> to internationalize code, possibly similiar to how people
>> internationalize strings today.
>
> Why? Or more acurate
On May 16, 11:41 am, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Christophe wrote:
snip...
> > Who displays stack frames? Your code. Whose code includes unicode
> > identifiers? Your code. Whose fault is it to create a stack trace
> > display procedure that cannot handle unicode? You.
>
>
On May 16, 1:44 am, René Fleschenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
> > I'm not sure how you conclude that no problem exists.
> > - Meaningful identifiers are critical in creating good code.
>
> I agree.
>
> > - Non-english speakers can not create or understand
> > engli
Eric Brunel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Joke aside, this just means that I won't ever be able to program math in
> ADA, because I have absolutely no idea on how to do a 'pi' character on my
> keyboard.
Just in case it wasn't clear: you could of course continue to use the
old name 'Pi' instead
On May 16, 12:54 pm, Gregor Horvath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Istvan Albert schrieb:
>
> > Here is something that just happened and relates to this subject: I
> > had to help a student run some python code on her laptop, she had
> > Windows XP that hid the extensions. I wanted to set it up such
"Hendrik van Rooyen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > First "while" is a keyword and will remain "while" so
> > that has nothing to do with anything.
>
> I think this cuts right down to why I oppose the PEP.
> It is not so much for techn
On May 13, 5:44 pm, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> PEP 1 specifies that PEP authors need to collect feedback from the
> community. As the author of PEP 3131, I'd like to encourage comments
> to the PEP included below, either here (comp.lang.python), or to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> In
On May 16, 9:04 am, "Eric Brunel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 16 May 2007 16:29:27 +0200, Neil Hodgson
>
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
...snip...
> > Each of these can be handled reasonably considering their frequency of
> > occurrence. I have never learned Japanese but have had to deal
Christophe wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] a ecrit :
> > Christophe wrote:
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] a ecrit :
> >>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> I would find it useful to be able to use non-ASCII characters for heavily
> mathematical programs. There would be a closer correspondence between the
> >>>
Istvan Albert schrieb:
> Here is something that just happened and relates to this subject: I
> had to help a student run some python code on her laptop, she had
> Windows XP that hid the extensions. I wanted to set it up such that
> the extension is shown. I don't have XP in front of me but when I
As a non-native English speaker,
On May 13, 11:44 am, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> - should non-ASCII identifiers be supported? why?
No. I don't think it adds much, I think it will be a little used
feature (as it should be), every python instructor will start their
class by say
Eric Brunel schrieb:
>
> The point is that today, I have a reasonable chance of being able to
> read, understand and edit any Python code. With PEP 3131, it will no
> more be true. That's what bugs me.
That's just not true. I and others in this thread have stated that they
use German or other
On Wed, 16 May 2007 17:14:32 +0200, Gregor Horvath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Eric Brunel schrieb:
>
>> Highly improbable in the general context. If I stumble on a source code
>> in Chinese, Russian or Hebrew, I wouldn't be able to figure out a
>> single sound.
>
> If you get source code i
On 16 May, 15:49, Carsten Haese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> [*] And if you respond that they must know "some" English in the form of
> keywords and such, the answer is no, they need not. It is not hard for
> Europeans to learn to visually recognize a handful of simple Chinese
> characters withou
Eric Brunel schrieb:
> Highly improbable in the general context. If I stumble on a source code
> in Chinese, Russian or Hebrew, I wouldn't be able to figure out a single
> sound.
If you get source code in a programming language that you don't know you
can't figure out a single sound too.
How i
On Wed, 16 May 2007 16:29:27 +0200, Neil Hodgson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Eric Brunel:
>
>> Have you ever tried to enter anything more than 2 or 3 characters like
>> that?
>
> No, only for examples. Lengthy texts are either already available
> digitally or are entered by someone skil
Eric Brunel:
> Have you ever tried to enter anything more than 2 or 3 characters like
> that?
No, only for examples. Lengthy texts are either already available
digitally or are entered by someone skilled in the language.
> I did. It just takes ages. Come on: are you really serious about
On Wed, 16 May 2007 15:46:10 +0200, Neil Hodgson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Eric Brunel:
>
>> Funny you talk about Japanese, a language I'm a bit familiar with and
>> for which I actually know some input methods. The thing is, these only
>> work if you know the transcription to the latin a
Eric Brunel:
> Funny you talk about Japanese, a language I'm a bit familiar with and
> for which I actually know some input methods. The thing is, these only
> work if you know the transcription to the latin alphabet of the word you
> want to type, which closely match its pronunciation. So if y
On Wed, 2007-05-16 at 14:35 +0200, René Fleschenberg wrote:
> You have misread my statements.
>
> Carsten Haese schrieb:
> > There is evidence against your assertions that knowing some English is a
> > prerequisite for programming
>
> I think it is a prerequesite for "real" programming. Yes, I c
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Stefan Behnel wrote:
> René Fleschenberg wrote:
>> Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch schrieb:
>>> There are potential users of Python who don't know much english or no
>>> english at all. This includes kids, old people, people from countries
>>> that have "letters" that are not tha
Hendrik van Rooyen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I still don't like the thought of the horrible mix of "foreign"
>identifiers and English keywords, coupled with the English
>sentence construction.
How do you think you'd feel if Python had less in the way of
(conventionally used) English keywords/bu
"Eric Brunel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió en el mensaje
> Funny you talk about Japanese, a language I'm a bit familiar with and for
> which I actually know some input methods. The thing is, these only work if
> you know the transcription to the latin alphabet of the word you want to
> type, which
Steven D'Aprano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Tue, 15 May 2007 09:09:30 +0200, Eric Brunel wrote:
>> Joke aside, this just means that I won't ever be able to program math in
>> ADA, because I have absolutely no idea on how to do a 'pi' character on
>> my keyboard.
>Maybe you should find out then?
* René Fleschenberg:
> Stefan Behnel schrieb:
>>
>> [...] They are just tools. Even if you do not
>> understand English, they will not get in your way. You just learn them.
>
> I claim that this is *completely unrealistic*. When learning Python, you
> *do* learn the actual meanings of English te
On May 13, 11:44 am, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> (snipped)
>
> So, please provide feedback, e.g. perhaps by answering these
> questions:
> - should non-ASCII identifiers be supported? why?
Initially I was on -1 but from this thread it seems that many closed
(or semi-closed) env
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