eval should throw an exception on compile error

2011-05-06 Thread Michael G Schwern
I was just playing around with eval, trying to figure out if you can define an operator overload at runtime (seems you can't, good) and noticed this in the spec... [1] "Returns whatever $code returns, or fails." How does one get the compile error from an eval? What's the equivalent to $@? I

Re: Smooth numeric upgrades?

2008-10-05 Thread Michael G Schwern
So, the concrete use-case I'm thinking of here is currency. Darren Duncan wrote: >> [2] "Num" should have an optional limit on the number of decimal places >> it remembers, like NUMERIC in SQL, but that's a simple truncation. > > I disagree. > > For starters, any "limit" built into a type d

Re: Smooth numeric upgrades?

2008-10-05 Thread Michael G Schwern
TSa (Thomas Sandlaß) wrote: > I want to stress this last point. We have the three types Int, Rat and Num. > What exactly is the purpose of Num? The IEEE formats will be handled > by num64 and the like. Is it just there for holding properties? Or does > it do some more advanced numeric stuff? "Int"

Re: [svn:perl6-synopsis] r14585 - doc/trunk/design/syn

2008-10-05 Thread Michael G Schwern
TSa (Thomas Sandlaß) wrote: > Can't we have that as a general feature of all operators? > That is: > >my ($x, $y); > >say $x * $y; # prints 1 >say $x + $y; # prints 0 > > It is a cleaver idea to make the operator choose an appropriate > value for a Nothing value. Why having that only

Re: Smooth numeric upgrades?

2008-10-05 Thread Michael G Schwern
Darren Duncan wrote: > Patrick R. Michaud wrote: >> Correct. I suspect that eventually the Rakudo developers will have >> to develop a custom set of PMCs for Perl 6 behaviors rather than >> relying on the Parrot ones. > > I think it would be better for things like unlimited-precision integers > a

Re: Smooth numeric upgrades?

2008-10-03 Thread Michael G Schwern
Larry Wall wrote: > On Fri, Oct 03, 2008 at 11:57:30PM -0400, Michael G Schwern wrote: > : What's the status of numeric upgrades in Perl 6? Is see the docs say "Perl > 6 > : intrinsically supports big integers and rationals through its system of type > : declarations. I

Smooth numeric upgrades?

2008-10-03 Thread Michael G Schwern
What's the status of numeric upgrades in Perl 6? Is see the docs say "Perl 6 intrinsically supports big integers and rationals through its system of type declarations. Int automatically supports promotion to arbitrary precision" but it looks like it's doing the same thing as Perl 5. $ ./perl6 -e

Re: Why no "is ro"? (Re: Subroutine parameter with trait and default.)

2008-09-25 Thread Michael G Schwern
David Green wrote: > I bet we actually don't disagree much; I'm not really against "ro" -- > I'm just not against "readonly" because of its length. If I were > writing casually, I'd use "rw" and "ro"; formally, I'd use "read only" > and "read/write" (or even "readable and writable"). At an in-bet

Re: Why no "is ro"? (Re: Subroutine parameter with trait and default.)

2008-09-23 Thread Michael G Schwern
David Green wrote: > On 2008-Sep-23, at 2:32 pm, Michael G Schwern wrote: >> My other thought is that since parameters are read-only by default >> it's not >> thought you'd have to write it much so clarity wins out over brevity, >> the flip >> side of H

Why no "is ro"? (Re: Subroutine parameter with trait and default.)

2008-09-23 Thread Michael G Schwern
John M. Dlugosz wrote: > I'm not opposed to having it be "ro", but wonder why he didn't call it that > in the first place, so there must be a reason. Nobody's perfect? My other thought is that since parameters are read-only by default it's not thought you'd have to write it much so clarity wins o

Re: Subroutine parameter with trait and default.

2008-09-22 Thread Michael G Schwern
Patrick R. Michaud wrote: > On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 07:02:37PM -0700, Michael G Schwern wrote: >> I'm pondering what the proper syntax is for a subroutine parameter with both >> a >> trait and a default. That is... >> sub foo ($arg = 42) >> and >>

Subroutine parameter with trait and default.

2008-09-21 Thread Michael G Schwern
I'm pondering what the proper syntax is for a subroutine parameter with both a trait and a default. That is... sub foo ($arg = 42) and sub foo ($arg is readonly) together in one parameter. Would that be sub foo ($arg = 42 is readonly) or sub foo ($arg is rea

Re: Deep equivalence test of data structures

2008-09-14 Thread Michael G Schwern
Eric Wilhelm asked me to chime in here. is_deeply() is about checking that two structures contain the same values. This is different from checking that they're the same *things*, that they are in fact the same object or reference. You need both. Reading eqv() it seems that yes, it is doing like

Re: Concerns about "{...code...}"

2007-12-21 Thread Michael G Schwern
Larry Wall wrote: > But I will make one general remark at the start, which is that we > want Perl 6 programmer to look at curlies differently than Perl 5 > programmers do. In Perl 5, curlies were overloaded many different > ways, and rarely did they mean a closure by themselves. In Perl 6, > it's

Re: Concerns about "{...code...}"

2007-12-21 Thread Michael G Schwern
John Siracusa wrote: > On 12/21/07 5:54 AM, Larry Wall wrote: >> To you and me, the fact that there are single quotes means there's >> something there to hide. But other people think the other way and >> see double quotes as indicating there's something to interpolate. >> I think PBP comes down on

Re: Concerns about "{...code...}"

2007-12-20 Thread Michael G Schwern
oreach syntax, for instance. > (Though I disagree with the conflation of numeric and associative > arrays, a flaw shared by JavaScript.) > > > On 12/20/07, Michael G Schwern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Patrick R. Michaud wrote: >>> Just to add another persp

Re: Concerns about "{...code...}"

2007-12-20 Thread Michael G Schwern
Jonathan Scott Duff wrote: > On Thu, Dec 20, 2007 at 07:58:51AM -0500, Mark J. Reed wrote: >> I think the issue is that bare vars don't interpolate anymore, but >> they still have sigils of their own, so adding to the default interp >> syntax is too noisy: ${$var} is not really much improvement ov

Re: Concerns about "{...code...}"

2007-12-20 Thread Michael G Schwern
Patrick R. Michaud wrote: > Just to add another perspective, PHP uses curlies inside of > double-quoted strings to indicate various forms of > interpolation, and it doesn't seem to cause major issues > there. PHP has 8000 built in functions and it doesn't seem to cause issues there. I'll not be t

Concerns about "{...code...}"

2007-12-19 Thread Michael G Schwern
I was reading an article about Perl 6, I forget which one, and it happened to mention that code can be interpolated inside double quoted strings. That's one thing, my concern is with the selected syntax. say "foo { 1+1 }"; # "foo 2" The {...} construct seems far too common one in norma

Re: Pre-OSCON hackathon

2007-07-18 Thread Michael G Schwern
Andy Lester wrote: > There's a p5 reposithon going on at Schwern's before OSCON. I'd like to > hook up with Jonathan and whoever else is around pre-OSCON there, and > have our own little Parrot hackathon on the corner. I'm sure Schwern > will be fine with that. Sure, the corner... the street cor

Re: use Tests; # ?

2006-07-18 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/17/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I know we've moved on, but I'm in a completely different time zone, so please understand... I, like demerphq, also think that coming up with a name for each and every test is a good idea. It shouldn't be hard to think of a description f

Re: use Tests; # ?

2006-07-18 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/17/06, demerphq <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Well, if the test passes, there's no need to know where exactly it's > located. If it fails, the diagnostics contain the line number: > > not ok 6 > # Failed test in t/xxx.t at line 26. > > I've never seen incorrect line numbers. I have. L

Re: Lessons from the test function parameter placement quibbles?

2006-07-18 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/17/06, A. Pagaltzis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: so by now we've had quibbles about the "irregularity" of `skip`, `can_ok` and `isa_ok`, and a suggestion that the test name always go first. This puts the emphesis on the wrong thing. The point of the test is the test, not the description. D

Re: Lessons from the test function parameter placement quibbles?

2006-07-18 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/17/06, demerphq <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Just to clarify, my main point is really that test names should be mandatory. The fact that making them mandatory also solves other problems is to me mostly a nice bonus. What I really want is that when I try to build something and it fails test tha

Re: Fw: Fixing SKIP:

2006-07-16 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/16/06, Jonathan Rockway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I retract my previous comment. My prototype was, in fact, completely bogus :) Let's make that array a reference to a list and everyone will be happy: can_ok($object, [qw(foo bar baz)], 'reason'); Hopefully that works and makes sense. If

[ANNOUNCE] Test::Builder/More/Simple 0.64 (Emergency release)

2006-07-16 Thread Michael G Schwern
Miyagawa noticed that the changes to Test::Builder::Tester's test_fail() in 0.63 broke Test::Exception and probably plenty others. The change broke backwards compat and should not have been accepted. So here's an emergency release to fix that. 0.64 Sun Jul 16 02:47:29 PDT 2006 * 0.63's chan

Re: Fw: Fixing SKIP:

2006-07-16 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/15/06, Jonathan Rockway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Worse, it's inconsistent with the rest of the API: ok$foo == $bar, $REASON; is$foo, $bar, $REASON; is_deeply $foo, $bar, $REASON; And then this: skip $REASON, $num; Sadly, it would be hard to change that since so many

Re: Fw: Fixing SKIP:

2006-07-16 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/15/06, Jonathan Rockway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: What's the reasoning behind accepting an array, anyway? Convenience. You almost always use can_ok() with a list of methods. It also makes calculating the plan a little easier for it to be one test. I recall waffling around on the interfa

Re: Fixing SKIP:

2006-07-16 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/15/06, Ovid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I don't particularly like that this is a silent failure, but I'm not sure of a robust way to fix that. In any event, I reread the docs a couple of times before I realized I was being stupid. That suggests to me that this little nit could be improve

Re: use Tests; # ?

2006-07-15 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/15/06, Ovid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Just a thought: use Tests qw/ Exception Differences /; Have it import those modules and check for sub conflicts. This doesn't really buy you anything over: use Test::Exception; use Test::Differences; That already warns on import

Re: TAP diagnostic syntax proposal

2006-07-10 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/10/06, Pete Krawczyk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I would be concerned about "got" or "expected" including embedded newlines, such as: is($mech->content,$expected_page,"Web page content matches what's expected"); even with a delimiter such as Ian suggested. How would this handle that? Y

Re: TAP diagnostic syntax proposal

2006-07-10 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/10/06, Ian Langworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: These diagnostic keywords seem to blend too much into the rest of TAP. Look at it in a fixed-with font, if you're not already, and it might stand out better. Also consider that with the next gen TAP parsers, "enhanced" TAP displays should be

TAP diagnostic syntax proposal

2006-07-10 Thread Michael G Schwern
The PITA/TestBuilder2 BoF at YAPC::NA (which spent most of its time talking about TAP) sketched out a syntax for parsable TAP diagnostics. not ok 2 - omg t3h sooper test!!1! file:foo.t line:45 description: omg t3h sooper test!!1! got: this expected:that r

[ANNOUNCE] Test::Builder/More/Simple 0.63

2006-07-09 Thread Michael G Schwern
Holy crap, its a Test::More release! I'm sure there's much more important things which need fixing then what's in this release, but these were sitting around in the repo and I want to get back into the swing of regular releases. 0.63 Sun Jul 9 02:36:36 PDT 2006 * Fixed can_ok() to gracefull

Re: [Slightly OT] Understanding Software Licences

2006-07-08 Thread Michael G Schwern
I am declaring this topic closed on this mailing list. It has sucked down too much time and energy and generated too much heat and no light. It has nothing to do with Perl QA. Please take it somewhere else. Please do not reply to this thread with anything but the location of where you intend t

Re: Testing various HTML constructs

2006-07-08 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/8/06, A. Pagaltzis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: * Gabor Szabo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-07-08 18:10]: > How can I check other HTML constructs? I'd marry XML::LibXML's HTML parsing mode into W::M so I could prod the document with XPath expressions, then I'd add some convenience methods added T

Re: Doc error in TAP.pm?

2006-07-08 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/8/06, Ovid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Any text after the test number but before a # is the description of the test point. From my observations of test behavior, the shouldn't that be the following? Any text after the test number but before *an unescaped* # is the description of the t

Re: More on the TAP::Grammar

2006-07-07 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/7/06, Ovid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: This long-winded (as usual) explanation brings me around to my actual question: is there really any need to have the lexing and parsing stages clearly delineated? I can't see why, but from you mentioning several times that "that's a parser's job, no

Re: [Slightly OT] Understanding Software Licences [was Re: Proposal Suggestion - Test::Run [was Re: [Israel.pm] Fwd: Call for proposals -- Perl Foundation Grants]]

2006-07-07 Thread Michael G Schwern
Folks should read the fascinating document which is the LEGAL file which comes with the Ruby source code. http://www.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/ruby/LEGAL?rev=1.12.2.2;content-type=text%2Fplain The Ruby source contains not one, not two, but SIXTEEN different licences including the "Beer-War

Re: [Slightly OT] Understanding Software Licences [was Re: Proposal Suggestion - Test::Run [was Re: [Israel.pm] Fwd: Call for proposals -- Perl Foundation Grants]]

2006-07-07 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/7/06, chromatic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I DO NOT WANT TO RELICENSE YOUR CODE. It is a huge maintenance burden. It creates confusion for developers, who need to decide which version to patch. It creates confusion for users, who need to decide which version to use. You can't reuse patch

TAP Namespace Nonproliferation Treaty

2006-07-07 Thread Michael G Schwern
I propose that we all avoid grabbing the juicy names in the top level TAP namespace, such as TAP::Grammar, TAP::Parser and so on. This avoids one module getting the special status of being "the" TAP::Parser. AKA "The CGI.pm problem". Sort of declare a namespace Antarctic Treaty. For example, I

Re: TAP extension proposal: test groups

2006-07-06 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/3/06, Jonathan Rockway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: If you wanted to truly please DJB (with his "don't parse" mantra), then you could open two extra filehandles, one for 'ok' and one for 'not ok', and print the number of the test mod 256 (i.e. one byte per test, no newline; just the byte) to e

Re: TAP extension proposal: test groups

2006-07-06 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/4/06, Ovid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Original Message From: Jonathan Rockway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > This leads me to another question -- what to do about output that the > program prints to STDOUT or STDERR? There are some modules that I use > that insist on C-ing whenever someth

Re: Old and broken versions of Module::Install

2006-07-06 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/6/06, Steffen Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Versions of Module::Install < 0.61 do not work on the current ActivePerl release 5.8.8 build 817. What's broken and why suddenly 5.8.8?

Re: TAP::Harness

2006-07-05 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/1/06, Michael G Schwern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: As my flight is delayed I'll try to make a stab at posting up the basic design. The whole point of replacing the Perl QA wiki was to have a public place for the TAP::Harness design to live. :) http://perl-qa.yi.org/index.php/T

Re: Test::Builder feature request...

2006-07-05 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 2/9/06, Geoffrey Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This works: yes, excellent randy. thanks for that. it still seems a little hackish but that's ok - hackish works for me if it means I can do what I want and nobody else needs to do extra work :) I made some tweaks to your format and added

Re: Proposal Suggestion - Test::Run

2006-07-05 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/5/06, Jonathan T. Rockway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 1) How would this proposed module benefit the perl community? Why can't you fix things in Test::Harness and send the patch in? If you fix deployed modules, everyone wins. If you write your own module, it sits on CPAN unused. What exac

The new wiki

2006-07-05 Thread Michael G Schwern
Thanks to Tyler MacDonald and yi.org we now have a brand spanking new wiki! http://perl-qa.yi.org/ is its location, we'll worry about getting more official domains later. Its a wiki. Go nuts. Err on the side of editing rather than doing nothing. Not sure if something should go on the wiki? P

Re: Volunteer wanted: We need a new wiki.

2006-07-05 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/5/06, Tyler MacDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Michael G Schwern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 7/5/06, Tyler MacDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >I'd be happy to. yi.org is already running a few mediawikis, as well as > >cpants.perl.org. Let m

Re: Volunteer wanted: We need a new wiki.

2006-07-05 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/5/06, Jonathan T. Rockway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The thing about using MediaWiki is that it's not written in Perl. Not that PHP is bad (ok, yes it is bad...), but doesn't it send some sort of negative message when Perl QA doesn't use a Perl-based Wiki? Do I worry that qa.perl.org is r

Re: Volunteer wanted: We need a new wiki.

2006-07-05 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/5/06, Tyler MacDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'd be happy to. yi.org is already running a few mediawikis, as well as cpants.perl.org. Let me know and I'll get it set up. You win! Set it up. Let us know when its online. We'll worry about getting a proper domain/uri for it later.

Volunteer wanted: We need a new wiki.

2006-07-05 Thread Michael G Schwern
These TAP extension proposals and designs for parsers and questions for details about the TAP grammar... they should all go into the Wiki. But the Perl QA Wiki sucks. Its slow. Its spammed. UseModWiki sucks. And I don't have the time to maintain it. We need a new wiki. schwern.org is too ane

Re: More on the TAP::Grammar

2006-07-05 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/4/06, Ovid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Because we're discarding anything which does not look like a plan or a test line Don't discard them, just pass them through unaltered. Don't want to lose any information. The /^#/ lines should be marked as comments. Anything else is marked as junk bu

Re: TAP Grammar

2006-07-04 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/3/06, Ovid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Original Message From: Michael G Schwern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Diagnostic information *is* unreliable in TAP. > Do not parse it. It is now being discarded. Don't discard it, just pass it straight through. Consider

Re: TAP Grammar

2006-07-03 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/3/06, Ovid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Currently, the way that Test::Harness::TAP reads, I should properly discard anything which is not a plan, test or diagnostic output. However, test failure output and programmer supplied diagnostic output need to be disambiguated or diagnostic informa

Re: TAP::Harness

2006-07-01 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/1/06, Yuval Kogman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Another issue we had at work when I was abusing TAP for our C++ UT framework was that we needed more levels of nesting (TAP only supports streams and test cases - I was handling many test cases in the same stream, for nested modules... I faked "f

TAP extension proposal: test groups

2006-07-01 Thread Michael G Schwern
The PITA / TestBuilder2 BOF at YAPC whacked up this TAP extension. Test groups in TAP. There are several use-cases here. 1. I want to name a group of tests rather than the individuals. 2. I don't want to have to count up the total number of tests in my file but I do want the protection of the

Re: TAP::Harness

2006-07-01 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/1/06, Shlomi Fish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: One thing I'm wondering about is whether you are going to code all of this into TAP::Harness from scratch. I believe I mentioned, I intend to steal lots of code from Test::Harness and Straps. "Steal" in the cut & paste sense. I have already ad

Re: TAP::Harness

2006-07-01 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/1/06, Steve Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Sat, Jul 01, 2006 at 08:45:02PM +0100, Fergal Daly wrote: > This might seem like an odd question but will it be tightly tied to > TAP or will it be possible to use another protocol or an extension to > TAP? Pluggable testing protocols, perhap

Re: TAP::Harness

2006-07-01 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 7/1/06, Yuval Kogman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Please look at Test::TAP::Model and the horrrible hooks it goes through to make things work. I'd love to have a SAX like event-handler model for TAP through TAP::Harness so that I can construct Test::TAP::Model objects in a cleaner way (with

TAP::Harness

2006-07-01 Thread Michael G Schwern
Those of you who were/are at the YAPC Hackathon might know, I've begun work on what started as Test::Harness 3 and is now TAP::Harness. This is brand new, ground up rewrite of the idea of a harness for TAP sources (a foo.t file is a TAP source). Its being designed to be extendable to handle all

Re: interesting behavior in use_ok()

2006-06-27 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 27 Jun 2006 15:01:43 -, Rafael Garcia-Suarez > my $CLASS; > BEGIN { > $CLASS = 'Some::Module'; > use_ok $CLASS or die; # "or die" saves the day maybe BAIL_OUT could be better than die here, in at least a few cases. It depends on if you want to stop just this test script

Re: Continuous testing tools

2006-06-10 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 6/9/06, A. Pagaltzis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: * Adam Kennedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-06-09 18:35]: > Sorry for the lack of information, but PITA's design is fairly > ambitious, Hmm, I just saw this: http://googleresearch.blogspot.com/2006/04/our-conference-on-automated-testing.html Th

Re: Is_deeply and closure-driven coderefs

2006-05-30 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 5/30/06, Andrew Gianni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I have a subroutine that populates a hash of arrays with coderefs by calling closures. I'm trying to call Test::More::is_deeply to compare two structures that should be identical and I'm running into trouble. When none of the closures take arg

Re: Unintended consequences

2006-05-28 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 5/28/06, Ricardo SIGNES <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: * Adam Kennedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-05-27T23:48:43] > The questions that are being asked are for the user's benefit. That is > NOT being a freeloader. Freeloading is taken something from the user and > providing nothing in return. She's

Re: Unintended consequences

2006-05-27 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 5/27/06, Adam Kennedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I tell you what, I'm going to add the same code to all 100+ of my modules. And what if then Audrey and Ovid and Miyagawa and a hundred others did. For an application with 50 dependencies, that's 50 x 20 second pauses, or you get to sit there h

Re: Unintended consequences

2006-05-26 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 5/26/06, Adam Kennedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Andy Lester wrote: > Here's an example of why I'm not real excited about CPANTS: > > http://community.livejournal.com/perl/120747.html Ironically, posted by someone that also makes all her modules phone home at install time. Let's be clear,

Re: CPANTS is not a game.

2006-05-23 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 5/23/06, Andy Lester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > How do you get authors to actually look at the CPANTS information > and > make corrections? Well, we like competition. Make it a game! > > So it was you -- or somebody impersonating you on this list -- who > managed to persuade me that a

Re: CPANTS is not a game.

2006-05-23 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 5/23/06, David Golden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: How does "is_prereq" improve quality? Can we avoid getting side-tracked by individual indicators? Move it to another thread, please.

CPANTS is not a game.

2006-05-23 Thread Michael G Schwern
I haven't looked at what's going on in CPANTS for a while but Andy's post made me have a look and oh dear. There's a problem. CPANTS is not a game. If you make it a game, the system does not work. Let's review. CPANTS is not a measure of module quality since module quality is not well defined

Re: Changing permissions on temporary directories during testing

2006-05-22 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 5/21/06, James E Keenan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: This code is intended to achieve that goal but doesn't DWIM: This is the right idea, but... my ($file, $workdir, $destdir); { $workdir = File::Temp::tempdir(); chdir $workdir or die "Cannot change to $workdir"; $file = sys

Re: Changing permissions on temporary directories during testing

2006-05-22 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 5/22/06, David Golden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: How portable does this need to be? My inclination is not to mess with file permissions in a test suite if you can avoid it. ... For system interaction tests, I prefer to fake failures rather than try to manufacture them. All things bei

Re: MAKE SCHWERN PAY!]

2006-02-21 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 2/20/06, Steve Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Remeber you are helping a good cause by getting and extra $500 to the > Perl Foundation, but you're also helping to tear Schwern away from > Worlds of Warcraft for a few minutes to write the check. Sad but true. Now if the tests were written

Re: Test::Harness spitting an error

2005-12-20 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 12/19/05, Troy Denkinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The error is related to my pod.t which is, just as in the docs: > > use Test::More; > eval "use Test::Pod 1.14"; > plan skip_all => "Test::Pod 1.14 required for testing POD" if $@; > all_pod_files_ok(); > > Running this under my test harness

Re: Test::Harness spitting an error

2005-12-20 Thread Michael G Schwern
On 12/15/05, Troy Denkinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I wrote a test harness - you'll find the code below my signature, if > you're interested. When I run it, I get the following: > > You said to run 0 tests! You've got to run something. > # Looks like your test died before it could output

Re: First (developers) Release of Test::Shlomif::Harness

2005-11-02 Thread Michael G Schwern
n continue to emulate the old one. -- Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pobox.com/~schwern Don't try the paranormal until you know what's normal. -- "Lords and Ladies" by Terry Prachett

Re: First (developers) Release of Test::Shlomif::Harness

2005-10-10 Thread Michael G Schwern
r. An external object interface will require a lot more thought. -- Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pobox.com/~schwern Ahh email, my old friend. Do you know that revenge is a dish that is best served cold? And it is very cold on the Internet!

Re: Test::More & Test::Builder::Tester

2005-10-09 Thread Michael G Schwern
be ignored. I want them returned in the > Test::Harness::Point object. *sigh* But you're not going to parse the contents. -- Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pobox.com/~schwern I do have a cause though. It's obscenity. I'm for it. - Tom Lehrer

Re: Test::More & Test::Builder::Tester

2005-10-09 Thread Michael G Schwern
changed the ones that it emits from its own ok() method. Its allowed to do that, the diagnostics output by ok() were never specified in Test::Builder and still are not. But because it had remained the same for so long people started to rely on it. Shit like this happens. TAP is really not involved here. -- Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pobox.com/~schwern Life is like a sewer - what you get out of it depends on what you put into it. - Tom Lehrer

Re: Test::More & Test::Builder::Tester

2005-10-09 Thread Michael G Schwern
hey just happen to have a # in them by historical accident, but it has an explicit format. Maybe it should be made more explicit in the TAP docs that you shouldn't throw just any ol thing after the # sign. -- Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pobox.com/~schwern

Re: [ANNOUNCE] Test::Simple/More/Builder 0.62

2005-10-09 Thread Michael G Schwern
On Sun, Oct 09, 2005 at 11:34:50AM -0500, Steve Peters wrote: > I've just added this to bleadperl. With or without Test::Builder::Tester? -- Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pobox.com/~schwern Insulting our readers is part of our business model.

Re: Test::More & Test::Builder::Tester

2005-10-09 Thread Michael G Schwern
sers ignore. There was no protocol change here because there never was a protocol. Test::Builder::Tester parses comments! BAD! EVIL! WRONG! -- Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pobox.com/~schwern Insulting our readers is part of our business model. http://someth

Re: Test::Builder::Tester and all that Jazz

2005-10-08 Thread Michael G Schwern
ter. Its all taken care of. You can fry your brain in peace now. -- Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pobox.com/~schwern Hating the web since 1994.

[ANNOUNCE] Test::Simple/More/Builder 0.62

2005-10-08 Thread Michael G Schwern
very limited way. It simply looks to see if they have the same referent. [rt.cpan.org 14746] -- Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pobox.com/~schwern What we learned was if you get confused, grab someone and swing them around a few times -- Life&#

Re: Spurious CPAN Tester errors from Sep 23rd to present.

2005-10-07 Thread Michael G Schwern
On Wed, Oct 05, 2005 at 06:26:17PM -0400, David Golden wrote: > Michael G Schwern wrote: > >AFAIK there is only one module of consequence which does screen scraping > >on Test::More and that's Test::Builder::Tester (Test::Warn, it turns out, > >fails because of Test::B

Test::More & Test::Builder::Tester

2005-10-07 Thread Michael G Schwern
ld Test::More diagnostics and translate it into the new format/regex/whatever. Since the old format is very regular this should be fairly straightforward. Above all, I want patches. I want fixes. I want code. I haven't seen a single patch in all this talk. -- Michael G Schwern [EMAIL

Re: Test::Builder proposed enhancement

2005-10-06 Thread Michael G Schwern
the "correct" way or not, its easy to put in and more information is better than less. So I hopped into my time machine and added this to the wishlist. http://rt.cpan.org/NoAuth/Bug.html?id=14944 -- Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pobox.com/~schwern '

Re: Spurious CPAN Tester errors from Sep 23rd to present.

2005-10-05 Thread Michael G Schwern
Test::Builder::Tester wants Test::Builder 0.12 which is rather old. The fact that you're the first person to report this problem, two weeks after Test::More was released, that its not nearly as widespread as you think. I'm done talking about this until I see some attempt at fixing

Re: Spurious CPAN Tester errors from Sep 23rd to present.

2005-10-05 Thread Michael G Schwern
not rolling back the entire release. Take a stab at fixing Test::Builder::Tester. -- Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pobox.com/~schwern You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til you understand who's in ruttin' command here. -- Jayne Cobb, "Firefly"

Re: Spurious CPAN Tester errors from Sep 23rd to present.

2005-10-05 Thread Michael G Schwern
://rt.cpan.org/NoAuth/Bug.html?id=14931 -- Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pobox.com/~schwern Stabbing you in the face for your own good.

Re: How to test an overloaded @{} operator?

2005-09-30 Thread Michael G Schwern
dom of having something which is both string and array overloaded. -- Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pobox.com/~schwern ...they shared one last kiss that left a bitter yet sweet taste in her mouth--kind of like throwing up after eating a junior mint. -- Di

PodWiki for Test/MakeMaker::Tutorial/FAQ now available

2005-09-26 Thread Michael G Schwern
rg/podwiki/ Gentlemen, edit away. -- Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pobox.com/~schwern 'All anyone gets in a mirror is themselves,' she said. 'But what you gets in a good gumbo is everything.' -- "Witches Abroad" by Terry Prachett

Re: Howto make 'require' fail ?

2005-09-25 Thread Michael G Schwern
equire($_[0]); }; sub _my_require { CORE::require($_[0]) } goes into infinite recursion because Perl thinks its smarter than you and calls CORE::GLOBAL::require instead of CORE::require inside _my_require. Its been perlbug'd. -- Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pobox.com/~schwern Stabbing you in the face for your own good.

Re: Testing dual XS/Perl modules

2005-09-25 Thread Michael G Schwern
der (Swig?), the above should be fine. And as the author of the module you know the guts of your module. -- Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pobox.com/~schwern ROCKS FALL! EVERYONE DIES! http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp05032002.shtml

Re: Howto make 'require' fail ?

2005-09-25 Thread Michael G Schwern
mber of the require), maintaining backwards compat (the behavior of CORE::GLOBAL::require changed between 5.6 and 5.8) and avoiding circular references (some of the magic around CORE::require appears to be broken) is tricky enough that I couldn't get it to work fiddling around for about 10 minut

[ANNOUNCE] Test::Simple/More/Builder 0.61

2005-09-23 Thread Michael G Schwern
there be no failures but the wrong number of tests the exit code will be 254. - Avoiding an unbalanced sort in eq_set() [bugs.perl.org 36354] - Documenting that eq_set() doesn't deal well with refs. - Clarified how is_deeply() compares a bit. * Once again working

Re: Graphing Perl Packages, updated

2005-09-23 Thread Michael G Schwern
use aliased; my $Customer = alias 'My::Company::Customer'; * Loading of modules on demand, such as Class::Autouse's superloader. In this case your dep scanner has to find class method calls and infer module use from that. use Class::Autouse qw(:superloade

Re: Graphing Perl Packages, updated

2005-09-23 Thread Michael G Schwern
27;ll redesign the code to be more re-usable and move away from the "file" > methodology. But I won't have time until mid-October. Ok, thanks. I'll let you know if I get any tuits to work on it before then. -- Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pobo

Re: Graphing Perl Packages, updated

2005-09-23 Thread Michael G Schwern
only be when I return. :) Is the dependency detector pluggable? The code I'm interested in graphing requires modules indirectly through things like aliased.pm, base.pm and Class::Autouse's superloader. It would be nice if I could extend its dep scanner to take these into account.

Re: ENV problems with testing

2005-09-20 Thread Michael G Schwern
nger valid. I forgot to give a solution. Basically, either require every module before chdir'ing, or run @INC through File::Spec->rel2abs(). -- Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pobox.com/~schwern Life is like a sewer - what you get out of it depends on what you put into it. - Tom Lehrer

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