On Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 02:22:28PM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
> You seem to be very effective at just not seeing people's complaints.
> Just because people do not reiterate their complaints mean that they are
> happy with the change. Just that they think that any level of
> complaining wi
On Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 05:09:29PM +0300, Dekel Tsur wrote:
> > Indeed. Looks managable, however, if you can express one idea in one
> > statement and do not have to wait until the phase of the moon is ok.
>
> Should you implement this in mathed?
> For example: if you have \mathbf{a}b\mathbf{c},
On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 04:14:07PM +0200, Andre Poenitz wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 04:08:17PM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
> > Andre> depth-increment can be implemented as cut, insert inset of the
> > Andre> same kind, move cursor, paste. Prefarably without touching the
> > Andre> cut
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
| Lars Gullik Bjønnes wrote:
>> So instead you do the opposite and decides that all complains are
>> because of "pissed off" users.
>
| I personnally have had complaints (that you conveniently do not remember
| about) and I can tell you I was pisse
Lars Gullik Bjønnes wrote:
> So instead you do the opposite and decides that all complains are
> because of "pissed off" users.
I personnally have had complaints (that you conveniently do not remember
about) and I can tell you I was pissed off...
JMarc
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
| Lars Gullik Bjønnes wrote:
>> | ERT inset, removal of latex environment, removal of dirty tricks
>> | (spacing around tables, automatic centering of figures, setting the
>> | layout to caption when creating a float...), removal of 'space at end o
Lars Gullik Bjønnes wrote:
> | ERT inset, removal of latex environment, removal of dirty tricks
> | (spacing around tables, automatic centering of figures, setting the
> | layout to caption when creating a float...), removal of 'space at end of
> | math formula inserts a space in main text). Peopl
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
| Lars Gullik Bjønnes wrote:
>> | I agree that my statement is a bit extreme, but we pissed of a lot of
>> | people with changes that were designed to ease our lives.
>> *what* changes?
>
| ERT inset, removal of latex environment, removal of dirty
Lars Gullik Bjønnes wrote:
> | I agree that my statement is a bit extreme, but we pissed of a lot of
> | people with changes that were designed to ease our lives.
>
> *what* changes?
ERT inset, removal of latex environment, removal of dirty tricks
(spacing around tables, automatic centering of
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
| > "Lars" == Lars Gullik Bjønnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
|
| Lars> | Forget about the code. Think usability.
|
| Lars> I prefere to keep both in mind, thank you very much.
|
| I agree that my statement is a bit extreme, but we pissed of
> "Andre" == Andre Poenitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Andre> I would like to fix that but don't know how. But I have not
Andre> tried lately.
Nice to know...
JMarc
On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 05:05:34PM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
> >> And usability? Complaints from users? How many people do we have
> >> complaining that pressing space at the end of a math inset does not
> >> insert a space anymore.
>
> Andre> All of them I. Including me.
>
> Huh?
I wo
> "Lars" == Lars Gullik Bjønnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Lars> | Forget about the code. Think usability.
Lars> I prefere to keep both in mind, thank you very much.
I agree that my statement is a bit extreme, but we pissed of a lot of
people with changes that were designed to ease our liv
> "Andre" == Andre Poenitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> And usability? Complaints from users? How many people do we have
>> complaining that pressing space at the end of a math inset does not
>> insert a space anymore.
Andre> All of them I. Including me.
Huh?
>> So I do not care too much
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
| > "Lars" == Lars Gullik Bjønnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
|
| Lars> | It is very convenient to use 99% of the times. It just works.
|
| Lars> and it makes the core a lot more complicated than it needs to
| Lars> be. removing the depth var
On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 04:08:17PM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
> Andre> depth-increment can be implemented as cut, insert inset of the
> Andre> same kind, move cursor, paste. Prefarably without touching the
> Andre> cut buffer.
>
> Except that you may want to go into an existing inset. And
> "Andre" == Andre Poenitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Andre> When I proposed it without immediately moving old stuff to it,
Andre> it was called "bloat".
You were doing the easy part and ignoring the hard part. That's
cheating. And you did not address the face that the label part of the
par
> "Andre" == Andre Poenitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Andre> depth-increment can be implemented as cut, insert inset of the
Andre> same kind, move cursor, paste. Prefarably without touching the
Andre> cut buffer.
Except that you may want to go into an existing inset. And you would
have to d
On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 03:50:38PM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
> Andre> Indeed. And I called it InsetEnvironment last time I
> Andre> implemented it.
>
> What I propose is a much dumber thing, that would not replace
> anything, just artificially add structure in places where there is no
>
On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 03:26:25PM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
> Asfor why I find it convenient, I do not like to use gratuitously the
> mouse or the cursor key to change the depth of something (think about
> a nested enumeration, and how you might not be sure how to organize
> it; would y
> "Andre" == Andre Poenitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Andre> That made it.
Come on Andre, you are not giving up now, are you?
JMarc
On Thursday 19 September 2002 12:59, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
>
> For example, the use of layouts (a flat thing) and depth to nest
> environments is great. Of course, as it is now, it causes problems
> (like two consecutive theorems), but this is something that can be
> solved with enough thoug
> "Andre" == Andre Poenitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Andre> On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 02:58:17PM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes
Andre> wrote:
Lars> and it makes the core a lot more complicated than it needs to
Lars> be. removing the depth variable and to proper paragraph nesting
Lars> is one of
On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 03:35:51PM +0200, Andre Poenitz wrote:
> > This is exactly what happens when I change sizes in lyxtext. Or are you
> > talking about region changes with multiple fonts ?
>
> Can you revert the innermost change without touching the outer ones?
I don't understand what you
On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 03:11:02PM +0200, Andre Poenitz wrote:
> As long as it concern my lunchtime talk I am interested in certain
> aspects that are of interest for certain power users.
But please don't punish the other 99% of users just so they may have
their wicked way ;)
> Having two theor
On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 01:59:17PM +0100, John Levon wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 02:52:57PM +0200, Andre Poenitz wrote:
>
> > > > - arbitrary nesting of font changes, including the possibility
> > > > of differentating \fontfoo{\fontbar{...}} from \fontbar{\fontfoo...}
> > >
> > > An
On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 02:58:17PM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
> Lars> and it makes the core a lot more complicated than it needs to
> Lars> be. removing the depth variable and to proper paragraph nesting
> Lars> is one of my goals when cleaning up.
>
> Forget about the code. Think usabili
> "Andre" == Andre Poenitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Andre> On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 02:38:23PM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes
Andre> wrote: No, it is not
>> It is very convenient to use 99% of the times. It just works.
Andre> It does not work and it can't be worked around.
What does not
On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 01:41:13PM +0100, John Levon wrote:
> I'd rather have this than have 99% of the thing unusable to benefit some
> theoretical "correctness" yardstick that nobody but the developers care
> about. Sure, the theroem problem is a bad one. But I don't see why we
> have ANY requir
On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 02:38:23PM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
> Andre> No, it is not
>
> It is very convenient to use 99% of the times. It just works.
It does not work and it can't be worked around.
[Btw: Have you noted that you are accusing me of
being ignorant to certain kinds of
On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 02:52:57PM +0200, Andre Poenitz wrote:
> > > - arbitrary nesting of font changes, including the possibility
> > > of differentating \fontfoo{\fontbar{...}} from \fontbar{\fontfoo...}
> >
> > And what does this mean to the USER ?
>
> That with nested size changes t
> "Lars" == Lars Gullik Bjønnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Lars> | It is very convenient to use 99% of the times. It just works.
Lars> and it makes the core a lot more complicated than it needs to
Lars> be. removing the depth variable and to proper paragraph nesting
Lars> is one of my goals
On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 01:35:32PM +0100, John Levon wrote:
> Granted. Though I can't see I've had too many problems without this.
>
> > - arbitrary nesting of font changes, including the possibility
> > of differentating \fontfoo{\fontbar{...}} from \fontbar{\fontfoo...}
>
> And what doe
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> "Andre" == Andre Poenitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
| Andre> On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 01:59:35PM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes
| Andre> wrote:
>>> For example, the use of layouts (a flat thing) and depth to nest
>>> environments is great.
>
On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 02:22:15PM +0200, Andre Poenitz wrote:
> The only "solution" that can be implemented using the current approach is
> having four layouts
>
>"Single-paragraph theorem"
>"Multi-paragraph theorem, first par"
>"Multi-paragraph theorem, middle par"
>"Multi-par
> "Andre" == Andre Poenitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Andre> On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 01:59:35PM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes
Andre> wrote:
>> For example, the use of layouts (a flat thing) and depth to nest
>> environments is great.
Andre> No, it is not
It is very convenient to use 99%
On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 02:07:33PM +0200, Andre Poenitz wrote:
> > I do not see in what way font insets are any more
> > structural than what the main text does.
>
> Pretty easy:
>
> - clear indication where we are exactly if the cursor is at
> the "boundary" of a font change
Granted. T
On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 01:59:35PM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
> For example, the use of layouts (a flat thing) and depth to nest
> environments is great.
No, it is not
> Of course, as it is now, it causes problems
> (like two consecutive theorems),
... because of that. Moreover, it
On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 12:48:16PM +0100, John Levon wrote:
> This is assuming that your font insets is the only structural approach.
> Which is wrong.
Possibly. I've not seen another solution so far, though...
> I do not see in what way font insets are any more
> structural than what the main t
> "Andre" == Andre Poenitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Andre> I never objected to that. But as long as we do not discuss real
Andre> code, it's hard to use non-political arguments.
Andre> My idea of LyX (which is btw supported by the propaganda items
Andre> on lyx.org) is that it is (a) _not
On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 11:08:23AM +0200, Andre Poenitz wrote:
> My idea of LyX (which is btw supported by the propaganda items on
> lyx.org) is that it is (a) _not_ a conventional wordprocessor, and (b) that
> it supports writing _based on the stucture_ of the document.
>
> So at least from a t
On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 10:46:00AM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
> So before going this way, we have to think hard about usability
> problems.
I never objected to that. But as long as we do not discuss real code,
it's hard to use non-political arguments.
My idea of LyX (which is btw support
> "Andre" == Andre Poenitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Andre> On Wed, Sep 18, 2002 at 05:24:42PM +0300, Martin Vermeer wrote:
>> I believe it is 'go back to default math font'. You are in math
>> when you press this button -- or at least you're supposed to be...
Andre> This does not play wel
On Wed, Sep 18, 2002 at 05:28:35PM +0300, Martin Vermeer wrote:
> I see. Explanation accepted. So what you're saying is that we actually
> should have buttons for both \mathsf and \textsf within math (no matter
> how implemented)?
Yes.
> Anyway, I suggest you do something that fixes the 'haywir
On Wed, Sep 18, 2002 at 05:24:42PM +0300, Martin Vermeer wrote:
> I believe it is 'go back to default math font'. You are in math when you
> press this button -- or at least you're supposed to be...
This does not play well with the "font changes are insets" idea very well.
Of course one could jus
On Wed, Sep 18, 2002 at 12:44:06PM +0200, Andre Poenitz wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 09:36:24AM +0300, Martin Vermeer wrote:
> > While we're at it (and this is a apropos the textsf bug too) why
> > (mathed/formulabase.C):
> >
> > // Math fonts
> > case LFUN_GREEK_TOGGLE: handleFont
On Wed, Sep 18, 2002 at 12:14:57PM +0200, Andre Poenitz wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 14, 2002 at 03:17:54AM +0100, John Levon wrote:
> > Choose mathfrak then choose "reset. You get "textnormal" in frak.
>
> What is "reset"?
>
> > Has anybody ever used any of this stuff ? :)
>
> \mathfrak? Certainly.
On Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 09:36:24AM +0300, Martin Vermeer wrote:
> While we're at it (and this is a apropos the textsf bug too) why
> (mathed/formulabase.C):
>
> // Math fonts
> case LFUN_GREEK_TOGGLE: handleFont(bv, cmd.argument, "lyxgreek"); break;
> case LFUN_BOLD: handleFo
On Sat, Sep 14, 2002 at 03:17:54AM +0100, John Levon wrote:
> Choose mathfrak then choose "reset. You get "textnormal" in frak.
What is "reset"?
> Has anybody ever used any of this stuff ? :)
\mathfrak? Certainly. But I haven't used reset so much since I switched
to Linux eight years ago...
An
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