Re: Decrescendo on last note

2012-10-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 10/02/2012 07:20 AM, Keith OHara wrote: There is also \endSpanners { \endSpanners b1\> } What about where you want the hairpin to end on a specified dynamic (e.g. decresc. to \p)? Does this also work in the _middle_ of a piece, not just at the end of it?

Re: Decrescendo on last note

2012-10-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 10/02/2012 03:02 PM, Carlo Stemberger wrote: Keith OHara oco.net> writes: > There is also \endSpanners > > { \endSpanners b1\> } Another question: how to get something like the attached image (\pp at the end)? Note that this is a common notation in plenty of places other than at the en

Re: Tuplets in Orthodox Liturgical Music

2012-10-06 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 10/06/2012 01:17 AM, The Doctor (Michael D) wrote: I am using the gregorian to arrange Eastern Orthodox chant music. I am working on music from the eight tones (which has a lot of 'recitatives') and *would like* to be able to use tuplets to 'group' and indicate notes and thus syllables that s

Re: Tuplet Ratios

2012-12-18 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 12/18/2012 05:16 PM, carltesta wrote: I am working on typesetting another composer's music. In their music they prefer to notate a 5:4 tuplet (5 sixteenth notes in the space of 4 sixteenth notes) as 5:1 (5 sixteenths in the space of 1 pulse (quarter note). Is it possible change Lilypond's MIDI

Re: Guide to Writing Orchestral Scores with Lilypond?????

2013-01-09 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 01/08/2013 09:35 PM, Urs Liska wrote: During the development of a musical edition some others and me created the base for a kind of LilyPond toolkit library. When the edition is finished we'll change that to be an open source project hosted on Github. This will consist of sets of functionalit

Re: Guide to Writing Orchestral Scores with Lilypond?????

2013-01-10 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 01/10/2013 12:09 AM, Urs Liska wrote: It was already discussed on this list: It was a silly idea to use copyrighted material at all for this tutorial. It was just something I was working on at that time, and I didn't really think about it ... To be honest, I disagree. This is something that

Re: Guide to Writing Orchestral Scores with Lilypond?????

2013-01-10 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 01/10/2013 10:24 PM, Graham Percival wrote: Unless you are planning this as a protest, I doubt that deliberately setting out to infringe on copyright is a great strategy. Are you really equipped to deal with a lawsuit from music publishers -- especially since there's now a public record of yo

Re: Guide to Writing Orchestral Scores with Lilypond?????

2013-01-10 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 01/10/2013 10:19 PM, Urs Liska wrote: But there had been quite some discussion here whethere lilypond.org could link to such a tutorial or not, and I tend to agree that an Open Source project should have Open Documentation. I agree, but I also think there's a difference between official docu

Re: Guide to Writing Orchestral Scores with Lilypond?????

2013-01-10 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 01/11/2013 01:24 AM, Urs Liska wrote: Sorry, forgot to post where it is: http://lilypond.ursliska.de/notensatz/lilypond-tutorials/tackle-complex-tasks/part-1-entering-the-music.html Thanks for that. :-) One note -- there was something I was wondering about looking at your example, and the

Re: Guide to Writing Orchestral Scores with Lilypond?????

2013-01-11 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 01/11/2013 12:44 AM, Urs Liska wrote: Bottom line: They didn't make very explicit statements, but they probably don't really care about the case. From a pragmatical perspective this comes quite close to 'fair use' (although it probably isn't). Well, I am not a lawyer, but my impression is th

Re: Guide to Writing Orchestral Scores with Lilypond?????

2013-01-11 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 01/11/2013 07:52 PM, Urs Liska wrote: I think it boils down to: - can a GNU project link to (or promote in any other way) non-free documentation? - can I license a tutorial as free if it contains copyrighted material (considered I got explicit permission to display the example on my web site

Re: Guide to Writing Orchestral Scores with Lilypond?????

2013-01-11 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 01/11/2013 10:10 PM, David Kastrup wrote: Not as much "can" but rather "should", and the answer to that is "no". "Should" needs to be tempered by a measure of common sense about whether doing so serves the goals of the GNU project. Since the goal of a tutorial as described here would be t

Re: Guide to Writing Orchestral Scores with Lilypond?????

2013-01-14 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 01/13/2013 12:09 AM, Antonio Gervasoni wrote: However, I'm not a lawyer so I'm sure if this would work. Well, there are surely organizations out there (Creative Commons, Software Freedom Conservancy, ...) who can advise. That said, as long as you secure the copyright holders' permission f

Re: Quarter-tone glissando

2013-01-18 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 01/18/2013 03:06 PM, Yannick CHARLES wrote: Regarding the typesetting, the quarter tone is written on the score, but not the glissando. Is there a way to make it visible ? Perhaps by tweaking minimum-length settings for the glissando? Most likely (from my experience) it "appears" but is ju

Re: Holst's "Mars"?

2013-01-27 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 01/27/2013 03:52 AM, Evan Driscoll wrote: I was surprised to look on IMSLP not find a download of The Planets score that is better than a somewhat mediocre scan. Not sure which you're using, but the full-score PDF seems to my eye to be superior to the individual-movement ones. I'm not sur

Re: Woodwind Fingering diagrams problem

2013-01-28 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 01/28/2013 11:34 AM, Jeffrey Trevino wrote: It should be pointed out that it's a common notational practice to hide the unused non-center keys in fingering diagrams; this behavior is idiomatic. Common, but not ubiquitous or standard, I'd say. On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 2:27 AM, Eluze wrote: p

Re: Woodwind Fingering diagrams problem

2013-01-28 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 01/28/2013 01:54 PM, Wim van Dommelen wrote: Agreed, but for a series showing e.g. a scale it would be nice to have similar diagrams, so I would like to control the behaviour myself. Personally I prefer to see all the keys when it's a visual diagram. That said, I think my preference _in gen

Re: Woodwind Fingering diagrams problem

2013-01-29 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 01/28/2013 11:54 PM, Wim van Dommelen wrote: Me too, but having individual control satifies everyone. Agreed. :-) The big challenge will be to find some optimum which satifies the multitude of brands and models. I've played on two brands, three models and these were all different, I checke

Re: [ANNOUNCE] ly2video 0.3.0

2013-01-29 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 01/29/2013 07:37 PM, Adam Spiers wrote: I'm happy to announce the release of ly2video 0.3.0. Nice! :-) Re the Lilypond version requirement -- is this an "... or later" requirement or is it really fixed to only work with 2.14.2? Might be worth clarifying in the README. _

Re: [ANNOUNCE] ly2video 0.3.0

2013-01-29 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 01/29/2013 07:57 PM, Adam Spiers wrote: I didn't notice that - I've certainly been using with later versions. It actually uses convert-ly internally, but I'm not entirely sure why :) One other thing -- re the python-midi dependency -- does this correspond to a particular package in Debian/U

Re: [ANNOUNCE] ly2video 0.3.0

2013-01-29 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 01/29/2013 09:12 PM, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote: One other thing -- re the python-midi dependency -- does this correspond to a particular package in Debian/Ubuntu that you know of? python-imaging and python-pypdf were easy to find, it's not obvious what package (if any) correspon

Re: Woodwind Fingering diagrams problem

2013-01-29 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 01/29/2013 09:50 PM, Wim van Dommelen wrote: 6. Lot's of models have a right-hand low-ees key (with the thumb), There is no such key. Wishlist. Not recent French models, in my experience, but I agree it's often found. The trouble is its placement is not uniform. The Selmer privilege has on

Re: Woodwind Fingering diagrams problem

2013-01-29 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 01/29/2013 10:46 PM, Wim van Dommelen wrote: Uhh, never too old for a challenge, as I see it the register key is also inherited, so it is one and the same definition. Can give it a try. What were you thinking about? Just a register key that looks like an actual clarinet register key, rather

Re: Woodwind Fingering diagrams problem

2013-01-29 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 01/29/2013 10:29 PM, m...@mikesolomon.org wrote: Just a note to say thank you to all those who want to make this code better. It's tough for me to take it any farther with my non-expert knowledge of woodwind instruments, but I would be glad to answer any and on questions addressed to lilypond-

Re: Woodwind Fingering diagrams problem

2013-01-31 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 01/30/2013 09:42 AM, Wim van Dommelen wrote: That is why the "low-bass-clarinet" stencil exists. That is (as I reverse engineer it) intended for bass-clarinet toward low-C (the concert model) whereas the "bass-clarinet" is the low-Ees (streetmodel). Well, my point is that "low-bass-clarinet"

Re: Woodwind Fingering diagrams problem

2013-02-01 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/01/2013 07:06 PM, Wim van Dommelen wrote: Ia there any rule in using Trademarks and mentioning these in the documentation? This could open up a quagmire because several models of regular clarinets also have key additions What key additions did you have in mind? For example low F vent

Re: Woodwind Fingering diagrams problem

2013-02-01 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/01/2013 07:06 PM, Wim van Dommelen wrote: That would necessarily involve a diagrams for each brand/model combination ? Otherwise it would be a nightmare to control which key to show and which not. And to do it so others really can follow it we should name it accordingly, e.g.: "Selmer-Priv

Re: Questions on re-organizing the woodwind (bass-)clarinet stencils

2013-02-05 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/05/2013 07:46 AM, David Kastrup wrote: Disagree. The default conversation language of LilyPond (all its command and function names) is English, the default note language is dutch. side-ees is perfectly consistent with LilyPond's defaults. The problem is not so much the use of Dutch as t

Re: Questions on re-organizing the woodwind (bass-)clarinet stencils

2013-02-05 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/05/2013 01:38 PM, Wim van Dommelen wrote: As for the mainstream of users: it is marvellous all these languages are supported natively for all notes to enter. Building a rather specialized diagram is only for a very small fraction. So I'll go for having the diagram right based on the Dutch (

Re: Streamlining my thoughts on the clarinet woodwind-diagrams

2013-02-07 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/07/2013 02:26 PM, Wim van Dommelen wrote: clarinet-family --> clarinet (what we have now, but without the "hole") "hole" ? I guess you mean the extra touchpiece on the LH 1st finger? Ideally you'd like to have some backwards compatibility, so I suggest keeping "clarinet" for the b

Re: Streamlining my thoughts on the clarinet woodwind-diagrams

2013-02-07 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/07/2013 09:22 PM, Wim van Dommelen wrote: Mmmh, that (lh . (gis)) is already taken for the upper key, using the same, not completly describing name will again confuse others. OK, fair enough, clarinet-lh-low-gis is better, then. I'd use clarinet-full-boehm as the name for the clarinet w

Re: Streamlining my thoughts on the clarinet woodwind-diagrams

2013-02-08 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/08/2013 10:11 AM, Wim van Dommelen wrote: But that also has the low-ees, because it still is a "soprano" it sounds higher then the low-ees in the bass-clarinet. The key lay-out is similar as the basset-clarinet (which is in A, not B flat). Confusing all this is ... Not really ... ? T

Attempted spec for low-C bass clarinet diagrams

2013-02-08 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/07/2013 02:26 PM, Wim van Dommelen wrote: The "clarinet-with-low-gis", "bass-clarinet" and "low-bass-clarinet" will then be "intermediate" stencils, but otherwise complete and callable from the outside, which is fine for example for writing down a specific thing in the high registers or a s

Re: Attempted spec for low-C bass clarinet diagrams

2013-02-08 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/08/2013 12:58 PM, Wim van Dommelen wrote: Have never seen these 4 key-versions, but might very well be possible. Used to be the norm -- the earliest examples in the clarinet family are basset clarinets and basset horns dating from the end of the 18th century (i.e. contemporary with Moza

Re: Attempted spec for low-C bass clarinet diagrams

2013-02-08 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/08/2013 05:30 PM, Wim van Dommelen wrote: Mmmh, but the correct use of it is vital. See e.g. Sparnaay pages 57 and 58. By looking back to these pages I noticed he writes the usage of the hole with a cross in circle "one". Henri Bok does the same. I like the graphical representation along th

Re: Attempted spec for low-C bass clarinet diagrams

2013-02-08 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/08/2013 09:03 PM, Wim van Dommelen wrote: I agree it needs an explanatory diagram at hand and it also calls for a possibility to have a numeric entry for specifying which key(s) to use for which note. But through the years I've learned that coming back with these kind of global things later

Re: A must-see for anybody on this list

2013-02-10 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/10/2013 05:21 PM, Luca Rossetto Casel wrote: Another one, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5uPPJj_M_o Does anyone know anything about the computer engraving software shown in this second video? I don't recognize it, but it's striking how similar it looks to Lilypond. _

Re: A must-see for anybody on this list

2013-02-10 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/10/2013 09:08 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote: No it doesn’t ;-) I know it's _not_ Lilypond, but it does appear to share some similarities. It’s SCORE, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCORE_(software) Doesn't look like SCORE markup to me: http://www.ccarh.org/courses/253/handout/scorei

Re: A must-see for anybody on this list

2013-02-12 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/12/2013 03:05 AM, David Kastrup wrote: The advantage LilyPond has over the hand engraver is that it does not need to say "I don't make mistakes". The hand engraver puts down the staff lines, and short of throwing the plate(s) away and starting over, the layout has to fit those lines, and t

Re: A must-see for anybody on this list

2013-02-12 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/12/2013 12:48 PM, David Kastrup wrote: Looks we are missing the proper command for this. With \pitchedTrill, transposition works. Yes, absolutely. A proper command would also help with the appearance -- as it stands getting the accidental placed just right over the trill sign is a bit

Re: A must-see for anybody on this list

2013-02-12 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/12/2013 01:24 PM, Janek Warchoł wrote: we have a snippet Documentation/snippets/transposing-pitches-with-minimum-accidentals-smart-transpose.ly The problem with this snippet is that it's conceived as a function that "wraps" a given piece of music. But as I recall, if you put a transposi

Re: A must-see for anybody on this list

2013-02-12 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/12/2013 02:50 PM, David Kastrup wrote: Joseph Rushton Wakeling writes: What you actually want to see in a given passage is something like, { \set Staff.transposition = #'chromatic c'4 bf' gs' e'% any transposition applied to this passage

Re: A must-see for anybody on this list

2013-02-13 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/12/2013 08:41 PM, David Kastrup wrote: If you want different passages in music behave differently when included in a single \transpose command, that more or less means that they need to use different callbacks at least in some anchoring expressions (like we use a relative-callback for doing

Re: A must-see for anybody on this list

2013-02-14 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/14/2013 01:36 PM, David Kastrup wrote: a) a reliable and scaleable mechanism to make individual problems go away by manual labor. WYSIWYG systems offer that. I think that Frescobaldi tries offering a bit of that as well. The really simple way of putting this: "It needs to be as easy as

Re: A must-see for anybody on this list

2013-02-14 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/14/2013 04:17 PM, David Kastrup wrote: Uh, they fired the original developers and their team without much of a migration strategy. It is unlikely that substantial new developments are planned, or this would have been an economically stupid course. I'm not saying it was a smart thing to d

Re: A must-see for anybody on this list

2013-02-14 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/14/2013 04:44 PM, Urs Liska wrote: While it may not seem to be intuitive you can actually write extremely robust "house style" sheets (or rather libraries which I find much more reliable than any preset templates or whatever you could use with WYSIWYG software. With the additional advantage

Re: A must-see for anybody on this list

2013-02-14 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/14/2013 05:32 PM, Urs Liska wrote: Maybe I'll get in touch with you before. I already intended to present the outline of the presentation here and ask for feedback - I think it's an issue that concerns many of us ... (The presentation is due at the end of April, so it will be some time stil

Re: 19th-cent. accidental notation

2013-02-17 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/17/2013 01:10 PM, Javier Ruiz-Alma wrote: I found an accidental notation rule in 1803 music introductory textbook by M. Clementi, says accidental was also omitted on the following bar it when happened to be first note played of same pitch as prior bar accidental (explicit example shown invo

Re: 19th-cent. accidental notation

2013-02-17 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/17/2013 04:48 PM, Luca Rossetto Casel wrote: In present editions, this notation is generally uniformed to the modern one - eventually putting the added alterations in parentheses or brackets. Is this really a case where brackets would be used? The typical reason for inserting a brackete

Re: 19th-cent. accidental notation

2013-02-19 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/18/2013 03:17 AM, Luca Rossetto Casel wrote: Yes, in most cases brackets are indeed unnecessary. But I know some over-accurate editions that aim to reproduce the original text as faithfully as possible, giving evidence to every critical intervention - for example, the Ricordi critical editi

Re: Hushing up Sibelius news?

2013-02-22 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
(Apologies to David, I hit "Reply" instead of "Reply List" when first writing this response.) On 02/22/2013 12:10 AM, David Kastrup wrote: If the file format describes exactly how the finished score will appear, what will happen with the spacing when transposing? Presumably it is ingrained int

Re: Hushing up Sibelius news?

2013-02-22 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/22/2013 09:02 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote: I think his point was that _no_ file format ever describes exactly how the finished score would appear No? We have PDF. Maybe they have too. >:->> Write once, read many, edit difficult ;-) ___ l

Re: Advocating non-free softwares

2013-02-27 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/27/2013 11:41 AM, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote: I am and have been ambivalent about being part of the GNU project. It has come with a lot of harping about how we should say things (like insisting on naming Linux as "GNU/Linux"), with little in return. At the risk of opening up a can of worms,

Re: Hushing up Sibelius news?

2013-02-28 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/28/2013 02:30 AM, Adam Spiers wrote: I don't follow your logic here at all. Being large and complex doesn't rule it out from being a starting point. If it *wasn't* large, there wouldn't be as much to gain from starting with it vs. starting from scratch. You make two rather big assumptio

Re: #'stencil vs. #'transparent

2013-02-28 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/28/2013 02:11 PM, Daniel Rosen wrote: I'm typesetting a piece of vocal music, and I want to have a melisma without a slur being drawn. I tried \override Slur #'stencil = ##f, but when I compiled it, the output appeared as if I had written \override Slur #'transparent = ##t--in other word

Re: Hushing up Sibelius news?

2013-02-28 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/28/2013 06:20 PM, Adam Spiers wrote: I strongly disagree, unless your definition of "difficult" ignores the time dimension of such a project. http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog69.html It can go horribly wrong, yes, but it doesn't have to. Git for example was a from-scra

Re: How can I do this ...

2013-03-01 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 03/01/2013 06:17 PM, Guy Stalnaker wrote: Is it possible to modify the brace from a GrandStaff or the positioning of the brace for the PianoStaff version so that it is more like the B&H engraving? I know the example from the LP documentation is acceptable (the Peter's Edition of the Bach is en

Re: Hushing up Sibelius news?

2013-03-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 03/02/2013 06:22 PM, Urs Liska wrote: OTH we might take this as an opportunity to do something else as a showcase project. I wouldn't suggest Goldberg Variations but rather something complex from the end of the 19th century (i.e. just out of copyright). Maybe something for string quartet too

Re: Hushing up Sibelius news?

2013-03-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 03/02/2013 06:27 PM, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote: Alban Berg 4 Pieces for Clarinet and Piano. Out of copyright in the US (pre-1922 publication) and Europe (more than 70 years since composer's death). On IMSLP here: http://imslp.org/wiki/Special:ImagefromIndex/12907 To me this

Re: Hushing up Sibelius news?

2013-03-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 03/02/2013 06:30 PM, Urs Liska wrote: I also thought of Berg already. Maybe also his songs? (could prove useful for me when having to play transpositions ...) But the Clarinet Pieces are beautiful too. Good point. Well, tell you what. If I put together a rough version of the 4 Pieces and ge

Re: Hushing up Sibelius news?

2013-03-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 03/02/2013 06:43 PM, Jethro Van Thuyne wrote: "Renewed copyright 1952 by Helene Berg". How long did/does such a renewal run? Well, this is the discussion on the subject on IMSLP's forums: http://imslpforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3503 I believe that typical terms of copyright renewal were

"dodecaphonic-first" accidental style

2013-03-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
Hello all, Taking a look at Berg Op. 5 (see Sibelius-related discussion) I realized that it uses a slight variant of the "dodecaphonic" accidental style: every note has an accidental, but only for its _first_ appearance in the bar. Any advice on how to achieve this automatically? Thanks & be

Re: Hushing up Sibelius news?

2013-03-04 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 03/02/2013 08:02 PM, Urs Liska wrote: But let me make a further suggestion: As I already mentioned in an earlier thread I'm going to write a paper on plain-text, git-driven work-flows, and I would be pleased if I could use this project as example material for that. The motivation for the paper

Re: Hushing up Sibelius news?

2013-03-04 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 03/02/2013 07:45 PM, Urs Liska wrote: AFAIK (but I'm not a lawyer either) you can't renew the copyright of the music but only on editions. That's why one sometimes has to pay royalties for really old music. This is UnitedStatesian copyright law, which has historically had some amusing devia

Re: Ferneyhough-style flared hairpins?

2013-03-04 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 03/04/2013 05:29 PM, Trevor Bača wrote: Is anyone else out there using Ferneyhough-style flared hairpins? I'd probably use them if they were available. I'm considering sponsoring the work and I'm curious to know if there would be any other adopters if the feature were implemented. Actual

Re: Ferneyhough-style flared hairpins?

2013-03-04 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 03/04/2013 05:29 PM, Trevor Bača wrote: I'm considering sponsoring the work and I'm curious to know if there would be any other adopters if the feature were implemented. ... could we make this a 2-in-1 to also cover his brackets-to-show-extent-of-dynamic notation? This actually couples wit

Re: Suggestions for participating institutions?

2013-03-26 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 03/26/2013 09:52 AM, David Kastrup wrote: > I met a former colleague in the bus to Chemnitz, and he is at least > knowledgeable about EU research programmes. Do people here have ideas > about possible institutions who could be made to participate? Imperial College, London has a fairly close re

Lilypond \include statements and the GPL

2013-03-28 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
Hello all, A question which has come up, and where I'm not sure what the answer or intention is. Lilypond is licensed under the GPL and reading through the license file, I didn't come across any granted exceptions (IIRC the fonts have an exception for embedding them into a document). So, how doe

Re: Lilypond \include statements and the GPL

2013-03-28 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 03/28/2013 06:35 PM, David Kastrup wrote: > I don't see that. \include is an instruction, not an actual inclusion. > As opposed to dynamic linking, there is no combined entity being formed > for the sake of execution where one could possibly claim "contributory > infringement". The inner worki

Re: Lilypond \include statements and the GPL

2013-03-29 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 03/28/2013 08:28 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: > My understanding is always been that the GPL applies to the software used to > produce a file, not to the file itself. I think (at least in this case) you mean "process", not "produce". You can draw an analogy to e.g. shell scripts, where the fact th

Re: Lilypond \include statements and the GPL

2013-04-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 03/29/2013 10:39 PM, Urs Liska wrote: > First of all, I think we have quite a consensus on what we intend - which is > a good start. Yup. :-) > I slightly disagree, although your considerations are valuable and give some > good insights in the situation. > I think the 'ambiguity' Joe is talk

Re: Lilypond \include statements and the GPL

2013-04-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 03/29/2013 11:26 AM, Janek Warchoł wrote: > On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 7:26 PM, Joseph Rushton Wakeling > wrote: >> but aside from that I think there are >> probably several other ways in which it could be done, including ensuring >> that >> all files intended to be

Re: Lilypond \include statements and the GPL

2013-04-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 03/30/2013 01:02 AM, Alexander Kobel wrote: > On the other hand, user C /should/ be allowed to distribute source code under > whatever license he wants to /as long as he doesn't ship the GPL libraries > with > it./ It's useless without them, but anybody who wants to run or compile the > code i

Re: Lilypond \include statements and the GPL

2013-04-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 04/02/2013 03:52 PM, David Kastrup wrote: > The main difference is "work as a whole" vs "mere aggregation". If you > include some file as a form of invoking its documented interface, you > form no new combined work. Indeed, which if I recall right is how Google was able to provide non-GPL'd he

Re: Lilypond \include statements and the GPL

2013-04-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 04/02/2013 05:07 PM, Alexander Kobel wrote: > This certainly applies to compiled code, with the GPL'ed library statically > linked, and also (I stand corrected) with dynamic linkage, AFAIU. I still > cannot see how it /could/ possibly apply to source code: Well, the examples you cite consider

Re: Lilypond \include statements and the GPL

2013-04-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 04/02/2013 07:07 PM, Urs Liska wrote: > My suggestion would be to either have a sort of "lilypond license" or > (better) an explicit exception/clarification stating that the use of > functions defined in the LilyPond distribution (either implicit or through an > explicit include) do not requi

Re: Lilypond \include statements and the GPL

2013-04-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 04/02/2013 07:33 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: > If I do not copy the actual file into my .ly file but only have the \include > statement, I have not violated copyright. It would be up to any subsequent > user to obtain the copyrighted Bob Jones file to use with \include or to come > up with a wor

Re: Lilypond \include statements and the GPL

2013-04-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 04/02/2013 08:53 PM, David Kastrup wrote: > LilyPond is a GNU program and so follows the licensing policies of the > GNU project. Sure, but I don't see that this prevents you from making a permissive licensing choice for parts of your program where this is appropriate -- I imagine the GNU proje

Re: Lilypond \include statements and the GPL

2013-04-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 04/02/2013 09:50 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: > On Apr 2, 2013, at 12:47 PM, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote: >> But now suppose that bobjones.ly defines a number of new functions, \bobFoo, >> \bobBar, etc., and that you use them on a number of occasions throughout your >> own .l

Re: Lilypond \include statements and the GPL

2013-04-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 04/02/2013 10:33 PM, David Kastrup wrote: > Since I can't share your concerns, I can't give you any advice what to > ask the SFLC in order to address them. That's quite up to you. Fair enough. I was concerned that you might actively disapprove of my doing so, in which case I'd have wanted to

Re: Lilypond \include statements and the GPL

2013-04-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 04/02/2013 11:17 PM, Anthonys Lists wrote: > So as long as Google stuck to using interfaces that the kernel devs explicitly > published to user space, then using those header files EXPLICITLY does NOT > create a derivative work, and therefore the GPL can NOT cross that boundary. That's exactly

Re: Lilypond \include statements and the GPL

2013-04-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 04/02/2013 11:28 PM, Anthonys Lists wrote: > A derivative work is whatever the LAW says it is (whatever that is :-). NO > open > source licence defines the term "derivative work", although they may give > their > own interpretation of what they think it is. The actual GPL term is a "covered w

Re: Lilypond \include statements and the GPL

2013-04-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 04/02/2013 11:25 PM, David Kastrup wrote: > Uh, so far I have just seen fantasizing about TeX users having similar > concerns. I did post a link before: http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/69007/the-gpl-and-latex-packages Sure, it's not a huge wellspring of concern, but as you say, that's .

Re: Lilypond \include statements and the GPL

2013-04-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 04/03/2013 12:01 AM, Anthonys Lists wrote: > But as I understand it, the lawsuit as actually sued said "apis are copyright" > and you would have needed a licence to use the apis - to use Oracle's Java. That's exactly in line with what David said. Google were providing a clean-room re-implement

Re: Lilypond \include statements and the GPL

2013-04-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 04/02/2013 11:57 PM, Anthonys Lists wrote: > On 02/04/2013 22:47, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote: >> Indeed, and a consequence of distributing a "covered work" under >> GPL-incompatible terms is that you lose the permissions granted under that >> license. > &

Re: Lilypond \include statements and the GPL

2013-04-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 04/02/2013 11:38 PM, Anthonys Lists wrote: > On 02/04/2013 22:01, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote: >> (Function names and APIs are generally considered to be uncopyrightable.) >> However, I think the consensus of opinion about free software licensing would >> be that, in dis

Re: Lilypond \include statements and the GPL

2013-04-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 04/03/2013 01:45 AM, Tim McNamara wrote: > Is that in fact correct? The quibbles here is what constitutes derivation. > If you write a program that calls a library during its function, is that > program derived from the library? Or is the library just a resource that the > application uses

Re: Lilypond \include statements and the GPL

2013-04-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 04/03/2013 01:22 AM, David Kastrup wrote: > Yes, it is. The terms of use of a proprietary program generally presume > a binding contract _restricting_ the scope of rights normally granted > with the legitimate purchase of media. > > The difference is that the proprietary vendor needs to establ

Re: Lilypond \include statements and the GPL

2013-04-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 04/03/2013 01:14 AM, Anthonys Lists wrote: > If your work does not include any of their work, then you don't need any > permission to not copy their work! :-) But I'm not talking about copying. I'm talking about the right to use. > And if you read the GPL, version 2 (I presume 3 has similar w

Re: Lilypond \include statements and the GPL

2013-04-03 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 04/03/2013 01:08 PM, Wols Lists wrote: > Dare I suggest you look at section zero? The second paragraph of which > says, and I quote: You're talking about GPL version 2, not GPL version 3. Compare: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html ... where the second paragraph of Section 0 is exactly

Re: Lilypond \include statements and the GPL

2013-04-04 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 04/04/2013 02:50 PM, Alexander Kobel wrote: > Then, everybody is free to use "my-app.C" constraint to my terms, since they > are > imposed on this very file. However, nobody would be allowed to use /GSL/ to > compile this program, because GPL considers "my-app.C" a covered work > /whenever >

Re: lilypond source and music sheet database

2013-04-06 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 04/06/2013 10:50 PM, Janek Warchoł wrote: > The things is, use git for tracking source files, not pdfs. If you > put \version statements in all your .ly files, you can always recreate > a pdf with appropriate LilyPond version. > > Actually, it might make sense to track some pdfs as well, but i

Re: lilypond source and music sheet database

2013-04-07 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 04/07/2013 09:23 AM, David Kastrup wrote: > Have you tried with LilyPond PDFs? I think they tend to compress on the > object level which _might_ work reasonably with some of git's packing > techniques. No. I did take a look inside them before writing my previous email -- they certainly have m

Re: lilypond source and music sheet database

2013-04-07 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 04/07/2013 06:51 PM, Stjepan Horvat wrote: > I realy like git too..Once i tried to make my own git server on my private > web-server so when i finish the work i can send the customer his pdf folder > link..but..that didnt work becouse you cant see actual files on git web > server..like you can o

Re: Cropped output (à la -dpreview) possible in Finale and Sibelius

2013-04-09 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 04/09/2013 06:26 PM, Urs Liska wrote: > When I used Finale one had to draw a rectangle with the mouse that then was > exported. > Needless to say that this is a poor way to consistently line up music > fragments > in a text document. I doubt this is the way a hardcore professional engraving pe

Re: Off-topics : vibrato

2013-04-24 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 04/24/2013 04:36 PM, Owain Sutton wrote: > Another common option is simply indicating 'vib.', 'senza vib.', 'molto vib.' Depends how precise a visual indicator you want to have of the type of vibrato, particularly with respect to precise indication of the 'vertical' extent (i.e. the range of pi

MIDI export and partial bars

2012-04-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
Hello all, A query about MIDI export, which relates to a feature request I have in mind but would like to confirm is feasible. Lilypond's MIDI export has problems with partial opening measures. This means that import into other programs will fail to place barlines correctly, and that MIDI p

Re: MIDI export and partial bars

2012-04-02 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 02/04/12 22:55, Nils wrote: Midi understands time signatures: What I did in Laborejo.org is to start with a measure which has a timesignature of the length of the upbeat and after that place the original timesig. Ahh, from a playback point of view that's a nicer tweak than rests at the star

Re: Appreciation / Financial support

2012-06-03 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 30/05/12 02:12, Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote: One of the problems of LilyPond is that C++ had very poor support for things we desperately need: reflection, automatic memory management and callbacks. How about D? http://dlang.org/ This seems to me to be a great choice for much of LP's needs. C/C

Re: Appreciation / Financial support

2012-06-03 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling
On 03/06/12 14:17, David Kastrup wrote: How about first getting C++/Scheme right? As I already explained, cleaning up the mess of layers and control flow will a) give a better basis for judging that approach b) make it easier to migrate individual layers to something else if desired Don't

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