Well, I gave it the ol' college try and did a bunch of searching through
the mailing list archives, but I am afraid I am getting no closer to a
working build. During the build process, the compiled lilypond is
unable to locate libguile.so.17 which results in help2man being unable
to do its job
Hi David,
> No. You propose replacing (cons 3 4) as a time signature designation
> with (cons 3 (ly:make-duration 2)). You have failed to give any
> indication of what you want to see (cons 8 20) replaced with.
Well at least now you’ve asked the question you clearly meant to ask earlier,
in a
Hi Carl,
>> Did my explicit answer in the other email (i.e., “one
>> quintuplet-sixteenth-note”) not suffice?
> Would that be \times 4/5 16 ? Or \tuplet 5/4 16 ?
\tuplet
In an Adès score, for example, you might see
(4/4) q q q q | q q \triplet { q q q } | (1/6) q q | (4/4) q q q q | …
an
On 11/13/21, 4:05 PM, "David Kastrup" wrote:
Kieren MacMillan writes:
> Hi David,
>
>> It doesn't answer the question.
>
> Did my explicit answer in the other email (i.e., “one
> quintuplet-sixteenth-note”) not suffice?
No. You propose replacing (con
On 2021-11-13 3:42 pm, David Kastrup wrote:
Aaron Hill writes:
On 2021-11-13 1:22 pm, David Kastrup wrote:
Aaron Hill writes:
David, do you know any reasons why FRACTION is a token and not a
parser rule?
Wagonloads of lookahead?
I think the only practical action is for me to play around
On 2021-11-13 3:34 pm, Aaron Hill wrote:
On 2021-11-13 1:22 pm, David Kastrup wrote:
Aaron Hill writes:
David, do you know any reasons why FRACTION is a token and not a
parser rule?
Wagonloads of lookahead?
I think the only practical action is for me to play around with the
lexer and parse
Aaron Hill writes:
> On 2021-11-13 1:22 pm, David Kastrup wrote:
>> Aaron Hill writes:
>>> David, do you know any reasons why FRACTION is a token and not a
>>> parser rule?
>> Wagonloads of lookahead?
>
> I think the only practical action is for me to play around with the
> lexer and parser myse
On 2021-11-13 1:22 pm, David Kastrup wrote:
Aaron Hill writes:
David, do you know any reasons why FRACTION is a token and not a
parser rule?
Wagonloads of lookahead?
I think the only practical action is for me to play around with the
lexer and parser myself.
Is it strictly necessary to s
Kieren MacMillan writes:
> Hi David,
>
>> It doesn't answer the question.
>
> Did my explicit answer in the other email (i.e., “one
> quintuplet-sixteenth-note”) not suffice?
No. You propose replacing (cons 3 4) as a time signature designation
with (cons 3 (ly:make-duration 2)). You have faile
On 11/13/21, 3:44 PM, "Kieren MacMillan" wrote:
Hi David,
> It doesn't answer the question.
Did my explicit answer in the other email (i.e., “one
quintuplet-sixteenth-note”) not suffice?
Would that be \times 4/5 16 ? Or \tuplet 5/4 16 ?
Carl
Hi David,
> It doesn't answer the question.
Did my explicit answer in the other email (i.e., “one
quintuplet-sixteenth-note”) not suffice?
— Kieren
Kieren MacMillan writes:
> Hi David,
>
> What duration is equal to 1/20th of a whole note in LilyPond?
>
> This works as expected:
>
> {
> \time 1/4
> \tuplet 5/4 { c''16 16 16 16 16 }
> \time 1/20
> \tuplet 5/4 { c''16 }
> \time 1/4
> \tuplet 5/4 { c''16 16 16 16 16 }
> }
>
> The de
Hi Lukas,
> To make matters worse
I think you meant “better”…? ;)
— Kieren.
Kieren MacMillan, composer (he/him/his)
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: kie...@kierenmacmillan.info
Hi David,
> What duration is equal to 1/20th of a whole note in LilyPond?
This works as expected:
{
\time 1/4
\tuplet 5/4 { c''16 16 16 16 16 }
\time 1/20
\tuplet 5/4 { c''16 }
\time 1/4
\tuplet 5/4 { c''16 16 16 16 16 }
}
The denominator of a #'note-denom time signature would look
> I certainly interpret “note value” as “duration”, not “number”.
Indeed, following the “note value” link leads to this: “In music notation, a
note value indicates the relative duration of a note”.
That seems pretty definitive to me.
Cheers,
Kieren.
For reference, Wikipedia gives the following definition:
“The time signature (also known as meter signature,[1] metre signature,[2] or
measure signature)[3] is a notational convention used in Western musical
notation to specify how many beats (pulses) are contained in each measure
(bar), and wh
Kieren MacMillan writes:
> Hi David,
>
>> A time signature is written with numbers, not durations.
>
> Perhaps more completely (and, some might say, accurately): A time
> signature is written with numbers, the second (“lower”) of which
> represents a musical duration — specifically, the time sign
Hi David,
> A time signature is written with numbers, not durations.
Perhaps more completely (and, some might say, accurately): A time signature is
written with numbers, the second (“lower”) of which represents a musical
duration — specifically, the time signature n/d means “n events per measur
Carl Sorensen writes:
> On 11/13/21, 1:09 PM, "David Kastrup" wrote:
>
> Carl Sorensen writes:
>
> > I have not been a strong contributor to this thread. And I have not
> > been a strong advocate for the time signatures with a notehead in the
> > denominator. I think all
> In which case \macMillan would be the better choice anyway.
But wouldn’t people possibly be confused and think that Sir Ernest coded it in
the mid-20th Century…? ;)
— K
Aaron Hill writes:
> On 2021-11-13 11:50 am, Carl Sorensen wrote:
>> I'm not sure it is worth the work to get semantically correct, but
>> semantically, \time 4/4 should not be a fraction of two integers; it
>> should be a pair of a count and a duration.
>
> Currently, the lexer consumes the numb
Hi Carl,
>> 3/16 + 2/16 != 2/16 + 3/16 ;)0
> I get that. How would that show up in the music? I guess in beam
> subdivision?
Yes, beat-structure etc.
Coincidentally, just yesterday I walked one of my composition students through
her first big piano piece and discussed/corrected her irregul
Yes. The numerical representation of traditional time signatures is a pair of integers. But the
"numerator" can be any integer. While the "denominator" can also be any
integer, it doesn't really represent an integer. It represents a duration; a fraction of a whole
note.
To make matters
Hi all,
>> Here you are talking about the _entry_ rather than the names used
>> internally. So what is your beef with the _entry_?
> I can't enter \time 3/2., even though 2. is a valid duration.
That is also my “beef” with the entry.
> I'm not asking for it, as I'm not willing to do it.
I’m ha
Hi Lukas,
>> 1. Is there any objection to me adding a TimeSignature style which would
>> immediately apply to all already-accepted time signatures?
> I think that would be a great first contribution for you.
> As for the name: Probably "denominator" and "note" should be a part of the
> name. "no
Hi Carl,
Thanks for weighing in!
> I think all of those time signatures can be expressed just as well as a
> compound meter.
1. I’d love for Lilypond to be capable of respecting the desires of a composer
(e.g., Orff) in how it displays time signatures.
2. I’m pondering whether 1/6 is superior
Hi Aaron,
On 2021-11-13 7:15 am, Aaron Hill wrote:
> Continuing my trend for hastily written/researched code, consider the
> attached.
Amazing! Thanks for the assist.
> There is almost certainly an easier way of doing things, and who knows what I
> have broken in the process.
I’ll look throug
On 11/13/21, 1:00 PM, "Kieren MacMillan" wrote:
Hi Carl,
Thanks for weighing in!
You're welcome
> we could not tell the difference between 8.~8 and 8~8., although I can't
imagine how the difference between these two representations would be
important; both repre
Hi Carl,
Although the time signature looks like a fraction, it is not. A fraction has numbers in the
denominator and the numerator (and strictly speaking, a fraction properly has integers in the
numerator and denominator -- if they are not integers, it's a quotient, not a fraction, IIUC). An
On 11/13/21, 1:09 PM, "David Kastrup" wrote:
Carl Sorensen writes:
> I have not been a strong contributor to this thread. And I have not
> been a strong advocate for the time signatures with a notehead in the
> denominator. I think all of those time signatures can be ex
On 2021-11-13 11:50 am, Carl Sorensen wrote:
I'm not sure it is worth the work to get semantically correct, but
semantically, \time 4/4 should not be a fraction of two integers; it
should be a pair of a count and a duration.
Currently, the lexer consumes the number/number pattern as the token
Carl Sorensen writes:
> I have not been a strong contributor to this thread. And I have not
> been a strong advocate for the time signatures with a notehead in the
> denominator. I think all of those time signatures can be expressed
> just as well as a compound meter.
>
> HOWEVER,
>
> In lookin
I have not been a strong contributor to this thread. And I have not been a
strong advocate for the time signatures with a notehead in the denominator. I
think all of those time signatures can be expressed just as well as a compound
meter.
HOWEVER,
In looking at this, is seems the lexer (and
Kieren MacMillan writes:
> Hi all,
>
>>> P.S. Kieren: I apologize if my naming things "kieren" in the code
>>> offends. Hopefully, you would consider it an honor for the feature to
>>> carry your name, as you are certainly the strong voice for its
>>> inclusion.
>>
>> I think that where a feat
Hi all,
>> P.S. Kieren: I apologize if my naming things "kieren" in the code
>> offends. Hopefully, you would consider it an honor for the feature to
>> carry your name, as you are certainly the strong voice for its
>> inclusion.
>
> I think that where a feature is not generally associated with
Aaron Hill writes:
> On 2021-11-13 7:15 am, Aaron Hill wrote:
>> It makes perfect sense that it could be generalized to accept any
>> music.
>
> Continuing my trend for hastily written/researched code, consider the
> attached. There is almost certainly an easier way of doing things,
> and who kn
On 2021-11-13 7:15 am, Aaron Hill wrote:
It makes perfect sense that it could be generalized to accept any
music.
Continuing my trend for hastily written/researched code, consider the
attached. There is almost certainly an easier way of doing things, and
who knows what I have broken in the p
On 2021-11-13 8:22 am, David Kastrup wrote:
Time_signature_performer does not have access to a grob.
Sure, but how is that relevant? This discussion is regarding a cosmetic
issue. As I see it, Time_signature_performer would not need to care as
long as the normal Timing properties are well s
Aaron Hill writes:
> On 2021-11-13 6:14 am, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
>>> Functions can accept ly:music? and you can drill down to determine if
>>> it contains TimeSignatureMusic and modify its properties. The only
>>> issue is that currently \time (and TimeSignatureMusic) require the
>>> denomina
Hi Kieren,
Am 13.11.21 um 16:19 schrieb Kieren MacMillan:
1. Is there any objection to me adding a TimeSignature style which would
immediately apply to all already-accepted time signatures?
2. If not, does anyone have opinions on what that style name should be? (Ones
that seem like obvious ca
Hi Lukas,
> You can very well have both: A TimeSignature style that turns old-fashioned
> \time 3/4 into "3 over a crotchet", and a vast generalization of the \time
> machinery that also accepts durations, tied combinations of durations etc.
> (and which, for simple durations like 4,8,16 etc.,
On 2021-11-13 7:09 am, Lukas-Fabian Moser wrote:
{
\time 4/4
c'1
\time \kieren 5 { 8~8.} c'4
}
Oh, and here I was thinking the denominator was only ever a simple
duration.
It makes perfect sense that it could be generalized to accept any music.
-- Aaron Hill
Hi Kieren,
See my “stylesheet” comment earlier in the thread: in a perfect world, a user
should be able to take any existing score and simply add
\override Score.TimeSignature.style = #'note-denom
and the output would be “as expected” — with a new function, a
search-and-replace (with pos
On 2021-11-13 6:14 am, Kieren MacMillan wrote:
Functions can accept ly:music? and you can drill down to determine if
it contains TimeSignatureMusic and modify its properties. The only
issue is that currently \time (and TimeSignatureMusic) require the
denominator to be a number. You can convert
Wouldn't it be easier to define an independent \kierenTime function
that expects an integer (index?) numerator and a music (ly:music?)
denominator? Then we could just write
\version "2.22"
kierenTime =
#(define-void-function (num den) (index? ly:music?)
(format #t "~a\n" num)
(displ
Hi Lukas,
> It's probable that I'm missing a point (since I only skimmed the discussion
> so far), but:
>
> Currently, \time is defined (in ly/music-functions-init.ly) with the signature
>
> #(define-music-function (beat-structure fraction)
>((number-list? '()) fraction?)
>
> Now the predi
Hi Kieren,
You’re not extrapolating the concept, as I have been asking people to, so I’ll
once again make it more explicit for you:
I want the user to be able to say
\tweak style #'note-denom \time 3/4.
or
\tweak style #'note-denom \time #'(3 . "4.")
or
\tweak style #'note-deno
Kieren MacMillan writes:
> Hi David,
>
>> Since they are the same, I have no idea how you arrive at the conclusion
>> that it is possible to have one work but not the other.
>
> You’re not extrapolating the concept, as I have been asking people to,
> so I’ll once again make it more explicit for y
Hi David,
> Since they are the same, I have no idea how you arrive at the conclusion
> that it is possible to have one work but not the other.
You’re not extrapolating the concept, as I have been asking people to, so I’ll
once again make it more explicit for you:
I want the user to be able to s
Hi Aaron,
> It should be possible for the helper to accept a single fraction as well, so
> both of these usages could work:
>
> \time \note-denom 6/8 ;; slash means simple numeric fraction
> \time \note-denom 2 4. ;; no slash means scalar and duration
>
Well, that’s something — than
Hello,
Here is the current patch countdown list. The next countdown will be on
November 15th.
A list of all merge requests can be found here:
https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/merge_requests?sort=label_priority
Push:
No patches in Push at this time.
Countdown:
!999 mf: Tig
Kieren MacMillan writes:
> The the optimal solution would not affect the behaviour of \time. Currently
>
> \time 3/4
>
> and
>
> \time #'(3 . 4)
>
> both work.
They don't "both work", they are the same.
> I was initially hoping that something along the lines of
>
>\tweak style #'note-de
Hi Elaine,
The first is, how is the usage of \time different in lyrics than anywhere
else?
Frankly, I was not aware that using \time inside lyrics was a thing.
What is the reason to use \time inside lyrics?
It is a suggested practice, is it the only way of doing certain things?
I'm not claimin
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