Jeff: interesting about the fuel-soaking tests that you've been running. I've
been using "EZ Turn Fuellube" on my threaded fuel system fittings rather than
any sort of pipe dope or Teflon tape, but then again I've got a gravity fuel
system on my Piet... very low pressures in the system. EZ Tur
y, December 11, 2018 at 11:08 AM
> *From:* "Jeff York via KRnet"
> *To:* KRnet
> *Cc:* "Jeff York"
> *Subject:* Re: KR> Mogas Blues... One last update
> Jeff,
>
> I am curious. You refer to pipe dope several times but I am not sure which
> pipe dop
18 at 11:08 AM
From: "Jeff York via KRnet"
To: KRnet
Cc: "Jeff York"
Subject: Re: KR> Mogas Blues... One last update
Jeff,
I am curious. You refer to pipe dope several times but I am not sure which
pipe dope you are referring to.
Is it standard plumbers pipe dope ? Is it
Jeff,
I am curious. You refer to pipe dope several times but I am not sure which
pipe dope you are referring to.
Is it standard plumbers pipe dope ? Is it teflon based pipe dope ? Or is it
some other pipe dope compound ?
Im sure you know that there is pipe dope for water, pipe dope for gas and
v
Yep. I think Langford hasn’t has his morning tea yet. 😁
Mark Jones
Oldsmar, Fl
N771MJ “WunderBird”
www.flykr2s.com
flyk...@gmail.com
> On Dec 11, 2018, at 10:02 AM, Chris Kinnaman via KRnet
> wrote:
>
> My guess is that the tail lifted because the thrust of the prop pulled the
> airplane
My guess is that the tail lifted because the thrust of the prop pulled
the airplane to the extent of the tiedown rope, which was attached to a
trailer hitch, not down at ground level. I once came within about an
inch of a similar prop strike due to this same tiedown configuration.
FWIW
Chris
Gary Sack wrote:
> I tied the tail, but this time it
> was easiest to tie it to the trailer hitch on the Subaru. WARNING! Don't do
> this. When she came to life, her tail lifted and ground down my pretty wood
> prop just like a pencil sharpener
You must not have had it anywhere near idle speed to
Not too quiet. After not going to the airport in some time, my battery was
down so I prop started my KRII. Of course I tied the tail, but this time it
was easiest to tie it to the trailer hitch on the Subaru. WARNING! Don't do
this. When she came to life, her tail lifted and ground down my pretty w
Has anybody ever tried using vinylester resin to fasten a layer of
heavy-duty aluminum foil to the inside of the tank.? Then as far as the
gasoline is concerned, you'd essentially have an aluminum tank, and if you
had a lot of overlap on the seams, the gas would never get near the
fiberglass at al
Hi Jeff... regarding the quiet KRnet I agree but you hit it right on the nose.
I have been busy finishing the brake assemblies, wiring my instrument panel and
rigging the control cables. I will be installing the firewall and getting the
engine mounted over the Christmas and New Years holidays.
-Jeff Scott
Cherokee Village, AR
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2018 at 11:04 AM
From: "Ken Henderson via KRnet"
To: krnet@list.krnet.org
Cc: "Ken Henderson"
Subject: KR> Mogas Blues
New to this discussion but I have a question. Why don't more people use
alum
New to this discussion but I have a question. Why don't more people use
aluminum fuel tanks? I remember reading of people making wing tanks that
laid along the spar out of irrigation pipe of 4-6" diameter. A header tank
similar to the stock glass one could be fabbed up easily as well. It would
prob
Mogas blues.
I traded my Evans Volksplane for mu KR2 and warned the new owner about
using ethanal tainted fuel.
He didn't listen and starting the engine while standing beside it he had
opened the revflow and closed it
but the gunk kept the throttle WIDE OPEN. It almost killed he and his wife
who w
I screwed that up, so to clarify:
Sparky wrote:
>>I had the same problem in my KR-2 that I built in 1982 using shell
epon and vesimid hardner. The fiberglass lining fell to the bottom of
the tank causing fuel starvation so, I relined the tank and went to 100
low lead and it was ok. <<
Epon
> There has been a bit of interest in my misadventure with GAS and the
> damaged fuel tank system in my SuperCub Clone.
>
I believe this was the problem that I had, causing the carberator to clog on
takeoff.
Joe Nunley Baker Florida
null
___
Search the
I had the same problem with my KR II built in 1981 of unknown materials.
Went to the airport one day to find the fuel had drained through the
cockpit. I cut the top off, made a cardboard template, and had my son weld
up an aluminum tank to fit the space. I lost a couple of gallons capacity:
I had 2
I had the same problem in my KR-2 that I built in 1982 using shell epon and
vesimid hardner.
The fiberglass lining fell to the bottom of the tank causing fuel starvation
so, I relined the tank
and went to 100 low lead and it was ok. Sparky
Sent from Windows Mail
From: Jeff Scott
There has been a bit of interest in my misadventure with MOGAS and the damaged fuel system in my SuperCub Clone.
Today I made it to the airport and cut the top out of the fuel tanks. The mess I found inside the tanks is incredible, and disheartening.
It would appear these tanks were fabrica
I don't think there is one. The well-established user test for ethanol
before fueling a plane is to fill a test tube part way with water and make
a mark. Then fill it the rest of the way with gasoline (which will float
on top) and shake it. If the line has moved up, there's ethanol in the
gasoli
I have a question in this same vein. If I mix 50/50 of 100LL and a 93 octane
autogas with 10% ethanol don't I end up with something like 95-ish octane with
5% ethanol? At what point can I ignore the ethanol. 6%, 4% maybe 3%?
Craig
> On September 11, 2018 at 10:25 AM "brian.kraut--- via KRn
Earlier in this thread there was talk of mixing ethanol containing mogas
with water to remove the ethanol. That does remove the ethanol from the
fuel (not sure if it removes 100%, but it does remove a lot of it), but
there is still one problem. From what I have researched, the ethanol
they normal
Earlier in this thread there was talk of mixing ethanol containing mogas with water to remove the ethanol. That does remove the ethanol from the fuel (not sure if it removes 100%, but it does remove a lot of it), but there is still one problem. From what I have researched, the ethanol they normal
I guess you missed the beginning of this thread? It was about mixing fairly
large quantities of water with ethanol gasoline to remove the ethanol,
which passes into the water. Then you have to to separate the water from
the gasoline, which is what we were talking about.
Mike Taglieri
On Sun, Sep
Ok thanks kibd of like what i made for fuel for me skidder
On Sun, Sep 9, 2018, 17:35 Jeff Scott via KRnet
wrote:
>
> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2018 at 4:00 PM
> From: "Joel LaRock via KRnet"
> To: KRnet
> Cc: "Joel LaRock"
> Subject: Re: KR> Moga
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2018 at 4:00 PM
From: "Joel LaRock via KRnet"
To: KRnet
Cc: "Joel LaRock"
Subject: Re: KR> Mogas
Whats everybody using for fuel tank,tanks?
For transporting and mixing fuel, I have a
Whats everybody using for fuel tank,tanks?
On Sun, Sep 9, 2018, 10:59 Flesner via KRnet wrote:
>
> Anyone fueling their aircraft from containers, I'd recommend the
> transfer pump sold by Harbor Freight.
>
> https://www.harborfreight.com/battery-operated-liquid-transfer-pump-64124.html
>
> I
+
I put hundreds of hours on the Tripacer and KR using MoGas without a
problem but not any more. I've purchased fuel (Shell) at a local
station that charged a higher price for "no-alcohol" fuel and fo
On 9/9/2018 8:17 AM, peter via KRnet wrote:
The more thorough the mixing of water and gas, and the longer you let the
mixture settle out before filtering, the better. Remember that all mogas
contains traces of alchohol because of cross-contamination in distribution. The
stickers on the pumps t
Anyone fueling their aircraft from containers, I'd recommend the
transfer pump sold by Harbor Freight.
https://www.harborfreight.com/battery-operated-liquid-transfer-pump-64124.html
I'm impressed with the quality for such a low price. I've used similar
pumps from another supplier and they d
The more thorough the mixing of water and gas, and the longer you let the
mixture settle out before filtering, the better. Remember that all mogas
contains traces of alchohol because of cross-contamination in distribution. The
stickers on the pumps tell you this. 100LL is a pain for refiners to
On 9/8/2018 10:02 PM, Mike T via KRnet wrote:
Yes, but if you had to run gasoline with 10 gallons of water in it through
the funnel, where does the water go?
+++
How much fuel are you filtering that has 10 gallon of wa
Great info, nicely done test.
Thanks
Jeff York
On Fri, Sep 7, 2018, 12:34 PM Jeff Scott via KRnet
wrote:
> I thought I would make a followup report on the Mogas testing I have
> conducted and the little bit that I have learned from it.
>
> I attached a photo of the same five jars of fuel after
Yes, but if you had to run gasoline with 10 gallons of water in it through
the funnel, where does the water go?
On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 10:55 PM, Flesner via KRnet
wrote:
> On 9/8/2018 9:06 PM, Mike T via KRnet wrote:
>
>> I think it could in theory, but I have to assume these funnels are
>> desi
On 9/8/2018 9:06 PM, Mike T via KRnet wrote:
I think it could in theory, but I have to assume these funnels are designed
to remove small amounts of water and contaminants from fuel and they'd clog
or fail to work right if there's a huge amount of water.
+
I think it could in theory, but I have to assume these funnels are designed
to remove small amounts of water and contaminants from fuel and they'd clog
or fail to work right if there's a huge amount of water. Ethanol and water
are miscible -- they can blend in any proportion -- but if you don't us
If that's really the case, then de-ethanolized gasoline (or whatever you
want to call it) from a major brand might be a more reliable fuel than some
off-brands of non-ethanol gasoline. You are, of course, losing 1/10 of the
fuel you buy, but commercial gasoline is so much cheaper than aviation gas
On 9/8/2018 8:15 PM, peter via KRnet wrote:
ethanol cannot be separated from gas by funnels using "phase-change"
properties. The fuel that is de-alchololed with water is identical to other fuels in the
retail stream.
Larry; ethanol cannot be separated from gas by funnels using "phase-change"
properties. The fuel that is de-alchololed with water is identical to other
fuels in the retail stream. The ethanol is added to each tanker truck as it is
filled for wholesale delivery, partly because it is too corrosive
On 9/8/2018 6:53 PM, Mike T via KRnet wrote:
I once tried this process on a larger scale, churning a 5 gallon bucket of
E-10 and water with a toilet plunger (outdoors), and I was easily able to
lower the ethanol content to zero.
++
Would you consider trying one more test? I've been wanting to do a test of
E-10 -- the standard gasoline today that has 10% ethanol -- to see if
"washing" it removes all harmful substances. It's well known that if you
thoroughly thorough mix E-10 and water, you wind up with all the ethanol in
the
Jeff - Thanks for posting, great information.
Chris K
On 9/7/2018 10:34 AM, Jeff Scott via KRnet wrote:
I thought I would make a followup report on the Mogas testing I have
conducted and the little bit that I have learned from it.
___
Search the
I thought I would make a followup report on the Mogas testing I have conducted and the little bit that I have learned from it.
I attached a photo of the same five jars of fuel after a month of soak testing various parts that might be in the fuel system with some surprising results, but more imp
Scott via KRnet
wrote:
Bottle #2 in the photo certainly looks like shine. I wasn't willing to taste
test it though.
-Jeff Scott
Subject: Re: KR> Mogas Blues... continued
Jeff I hate to disillusion you but up there in Arkansas they are running
moonshine in those pumps. It’s kind o
Bottle #2 in the photo certainly looks like shine. I wasn't willing to taste
test it though.
-Jeff Scott
Subject: Re: KR> Mogas Blues... continued
Jeff I hate to disillusion you but up there in Arkansas they are running
moonshine in those pumps. It’s kind of like our Coke machine
Jeff I hate to disillusion you but up there in Arkansas they are running
moonshine in those pumps. It’s kind of like our Coke machine back in college.
Back then there was no cola in that Coke machine. It may have said Coke but
every other can was Budweiser. First quarter got you a dummy can of C
I don't believe there were any atmospheric conditions (altitude, pressure, humidity) that could credibly be attributed to causing mogas to react with my composite tanks. No mogas was transported here from NM. Since I tested for alcohol and confirmed there was no alcohol present in the fuels here in
> "it would be interesting to know if atmospheric conditions can
significantly affect fuel that is sitting around for extended periods in
our tanks..."
I hadn't given this thought any consideration until now. I know Jeff had
fueled up the Cub just the day before he intended to fly so it hadn't
be
Sent from my iPhone
> On 13 Aug 2018, at 5:09 am, t Johnson via KRnet wrote:
> behavior" of the fuel? I.e. much higher humidity, etc...
> ———-
In Australia I have been told by many not to leave ULP in your tanks for more
than a few weeks as it goes off. If I can not fly for extended time pu
her of those could change the percentage of any added compounds over an
extended period of time.
TJ
On Sun, 8/12/18, Mike Stirewalt via KRnet wrote:
Subject: KR> Mogas Blues
To: krnet@list.krnet.org
Cc: laser...@juno.com
Date: Sunday, August 1
es without further damage.
-Jeff Scott
Cherokee Village, AR
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2018 at 1:01 PM
From: "Mike Stirewalt via KRnet"
To: krnet@list.krnet.org
Cc: laser...@juno.com
Subject: KR> Mogas Blues
Based on several of the comments on
Based on several of the comments on this subject, some guys are missing
the point of Jeff Scot's account of his gas problems. It wasn't the
ethanol that damaged his fuel system components, it was something else .
. . some additive(s).
Jeff York makes the point that such extensive damage had to
You guys are mixing unlike octane units without really knowing it. That's an incredibly dangerous thing to do when you are talking about fuels for your aircraft.
There are 3 different ways Octane is calculated, and the resulting numbers are all significantly different. You can't add octane calcula
On 8/11/2018 5:56 PM, Ken Hurley via KRnet wrote:
All I've seen around here is 91. That's what I'm gonna use.
At 7:1 compression the 0-200 cut it's teeth and grew in to old age with
80 octane fuel. You guys are running higher comp
free.
>
>
> Paul ViskBelleville Il.618-406-4705
> Original message From: Mike T via KRnet <
> krnet@list.krnet.org> Date: 8/11/18 3:24 PM (GMT-06:00) To: KRnet <
> krnet@list.krnet.org> Cc: Mike T Subject: Re: KR>
> Mogas Blues.
> I wish FB
Il.618-406-4705
Original message From: Mike T via KRnet
Date: 8/11/18 3:24 PM (GMT-06:00) To: KRnet Cc: Mike T
Subject: Re: KR> Mogas Blues.
I wish FBOs at airports would just sell ethanol-free auto gas. Then people
could use it with confidence or blend it with 100 LL to
by putting the integrity of my fuel systems at risk
> is folly. That effectively renders Mogas unsafe for me to use in the
> future.
>
> Thanks for the research and discussion.
>
> -Jeff Scott
>
>
>
> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 at 10:49 PM
> From: "Jeff Yor
Thanks Jeff York for the great overview of how mogas is handled.
In the case of new builders or a new owner just getting started on
running their airplane, I thought it might be useful to relay how I've
done it since I bought N335KC. Steve Bennett used to use a "clean"
source of mogas he had th
On 8/11/2018 11:06 AM, Jeff Scott via KRnet wrote:
Ash Flat, AR
+
Aaaa Ha..., Ash Flat, ARKANSAS. This is starting to make
sense. :-):-) You're not in New Mexico any more Toto..
Larry Flesner
_
y
putting the integrity of my fuel systems at risk is folly. That effectively
renders Mogas unsafe for me to use in the future.
Thanks for the research and discussion.
-Jeff Scott
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 at 10:49 PM
From: "Jeff York via KRnet"
To: KRnet
Cc: "Jeff York
Jeff Scott,
As promised I was finally able to run down my next door neighbor from
Valvoline.
Im going to try and glean this down as,we talked about your situation for
over an hour. He said that the mogas you started using just since April
could not by itself have compromised your fuel system. He s
parts stores. Will handle FI pressures in excess of 60PSI and
lots of ethanol.
Hope this helps?
Wayne
> KR> Mogas Blues.
> Pete Klapp pkengr at hotmail.com
> Tue Aug 7 19:59:29 EDT 2018
> Previous message (by thread): KR> Mogas Blues.
> Next message (by thread): KR>
Pete,
I have used regular over the counter fuel Injection hose for my turbo
dodge projects, it's been available since the advent of E-10 auto fuel
at auto-parts stores. Will handle FI pressures in excess of 60PSI and
lots of ethanol.
Hope this helps?
Wayne
KR> Mogas Blues.
Pe
Failed to delete the previous posts when I posted..
My BAD
Gary
___
Search the KRnet Archives at https://www.mail-archive.com/krnet@list.krnet.org/.
Please see LIST RULES and KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html.
see http://list.krnet.org
line
> to the Ellison fuel injector.
>
> Pete Klapp
>
>
>
> From: KRnet on behalf of Mark Langford via
> KRnet
> Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2018 3:42 PM
> To: Jeff Scott via KRnet
> Cc: Mark Langford
> Subject: Re: KR> Mogas Blues
, August 5, 2018 3:42 PM
To: Jeff Scott via KRnet
Cc: Mark Langford
Subject: Re: KR> Mogas Blues.
See enclosed photo of what some
chemicals can to do high quality aircraft hose, not to mention carbs,
pumps, etc.
Check out the enclosed photo
Mark Langford
m...@n56ml.com
http://www.n56ml.
ott)
2. Re: Mogas Blues. (Ken Hurley)
3. Re: Mogas Blues. (Jeff York)
4. Re: Mogas Blues. (Jeff Scott)
------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2018 02:35:24 +0200
From: "Jeff Scott"
To: krnet
Subject: KR> Mogas Blu
Jeff Scott wrote:
> After years of running Mogas in both the O-200 in my KR, and the O-320
> in my SuperCub, I have run into a particularly nasty bunch of Mogas
> after moving to Arkansas.
Welcome to the boondocks Jeff! I used to buy my ethanol-free mogas (for
the Swift and the KR2S) at an el
I would be really interested to see the petrolium chemist's opinion.
Thanks.
-Jeff
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2018 at 8:03 AM
From: "Jeff York via KRnet"
To: KRnet
Cc: "Jeff York"
Subject: Re: KR> Mogas Blues.
My neighbor is a recently retired chemist
My neighbor is a recently retired chemist and engineer with Valvoline which
is based here. Him and I have often discussed fuel additives and effects
and such. I am going to show him your email to get his thoughts. I too am
having or had some fuel related failures but never used mogas. I think mine
I'm sealing my wing tanks with a product from KBS Coatings
(KBS-Coatings.com). Randy, 877-548-9323 ext 123, was very helpful. I hope
to eliminate future problems.
Ken Hurley
On Aug 4, 2018 7:36 PM, "Jeff Scott via KRnet" wrote:
After years of running Mogas in both the O-200 in my KR, and the O
After years of running Mogas in both the O-200 in my KR, and the O-320 in my SuperCub, I have run into a particularly nasty bunch of Mogas after moving to Arkansas. In NM, I had a good source for alcohol free premium Mogas and burned it for years with no issues at all. But after moving to a new a
Sid's statement may result in someone thinking that
they could use the gas without alchohol in it and not
have trouble with the epoxy used to make the fuel
tank.
I have worked with the fire marshal's office here in
town and from what I heard, the alchohol content of
commercially available gas is
Mogas handling leaves a lot to be desired regarding exact content of the
product as pumped versus that which is advertised. Avgas is certified to be
alcohol-free, but it certainly is not free. How much longer Avgas will be
available is also in question. I still recommend that composite fuel t
I have a tank from a Flaglor Scooter that was built in 1975 with West
System (called Gougeon at the time) epoxy and fiberglass with no sloshing
compound. It is two layers of 10 0z boat cloth and is very light. It
has never leaked in the 25 plus years and the inside surface shows no
degradation.
D
My KR is constructed using the west system, so that is good news to hear
Dick Hartwig has had no problems for 25 years. Insofar as mogas use in
the continental, I plan on using av fuel occasionally to add the lead
content. We have FBO's here in Canada supplying MOGAS and I'm told it
has n
Bill: I worked for both Shell and Esso hauling both Avgas and Mogas to
various locations throughout Canada. The only chemicals added to mogas are
the various additives that clean the internal engine components (fuel
injectors, carburetors and the like, also octane boosters) much the same as
motor o
Bill,
Interesting to hear your 150 didn't do well on Mogas, (or did you just mean
that the gas "stinks"). We used a lot of it in the 150 that we had. Couldn't
tell any difference in performance. Used only Amoco gold (93 octane). Some
claim that the vapor pressure is lower with mogas and wi
>\My brother owns a vari-ez and the right tank developed a leak that desolved
>about 6" of the foam in the wing. He swears that using mogas only on 2
>occasions caused the failure. However it's anyone's guess as to what kind
>of epoxy
>was used as he didn't build it.
A Vari-Eze is supposed to
In a message dated 6/23/2004 8:41:22 AM Eastern Standard Time,
donr...@erols.com writes:
A Vari-Eze is supposed to be built with Urethane foam around the
tanks. Urethane is impervious to gasoline. Assuming that you mean the
outboard wing panels that are made from polystyrene, any gas (Mo or Av
Is there any evidence that motor gas will affect the fibre-glass fuel
tanks in our KR's? I have a continental and have always used avgas, but
with the increasing costs i am considering mogas.
William J.G. (Bill) Crawford
Senior Research Consultant
Research in Building Science
CMHC, Ontario
41
Bill,
The glass fiber in fiber glass is totally immune to any chemical attack from
anything that might be contained in any gasoline, and is also oblivious to
ultraviolet light from the sun. The resin is another story. Epoxy resin is
subject to UV attack. Vinyl Ester resin is also subject to U
William wrote:
"Is there any evidence that motor gas will affect the fibre-glass fuel
tanks in our KR's? I have a continental and have always used avgas, but
with the increasing costs i am considering mogas"
I recently went through this type of research when trying to decide fuel
tank configuratio
Is there any evidence that motor gas will affect the fibre-glass fuel
tanks
++
I would be very happy to see a comprehensive answer to this question.
I recall when Safe-T-poxy first came out - word was that it was bullet
proof for auto or avgas fuel tanks. Not sure how many t
On the subject of fuel tanks and resins
Lancair use the vinyl-ester resin in the construction of their tanks, but in
an application where you are likely to be laying up over the foam, the
vinyl-ester resin will dissolve it. There are quite literally 1000's of the
Rutan style aircraft and others fl
>Is there any evidence that motor gas will affect the fibre-glass fuel
>tanks in our KR's? I have a continental and have always used avgas, but
>with the increasing costs i am considering mogas.
>William J.G. (Bill) Crawford
+++
I think
///the compression ration is higher than in an
equivalent automotive engine. Use of lower octane ULP can lead to
pre-ignition problems which can dramatically shorten engine life///
Peter and netters,
Scott Cable and I had a discussion of auto engines a short time ago, and
prevent a misinformation
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