r having an errata page, it wouldn't be difficult to write a
program to automatically convert news items to guidexml. I suspect that
ciaranm could even be talked into writing it, if such a page were to
become reality.
-g2boojum-
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of portage just doing a little bit of maintenance work for
> external tools and nothing else.
I'm not sure exactly what you're arguing here. Is it just that you
think that the news stuff should be a post-sync hook instead of being
triggered explicitly by "emerge"?
l.
I was going to say that the only way new news items could appear is
during an emerge --sync, but of course that's not true for people who
either add an overlay or use CVS. I'd be comfortable with making it run
only at --sync time, or if it were triggered explicitly (--check-news,
or so
e.
>
> No, 43. Not 34. Bleh.
Whoops, 43 just requires local approval, since it isn't really
cross-project, so I've approved it (as the lead GLEP editor).
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ogs/20051013.txt
According to CVS, the GLEP hasn't been updated since the last meeting,
so I'm assuming that the GLEP's authors aren't ready yet.
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evised.
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st pushy. *Grin*
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one, but clearly I did. Did it get
sent out to -dev for comments?
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ference is that the subdomain chosen should succinctly reflect the
role that arch testers serve. My personal preference would be to choose
something like "aide", "helper", "assistant", or something similar.
(Indeed, I'd have preferred "volunteer"
Jakub Moc wrote: [Fri Nov 18 2005, 06:07:48PM CST]
>
> 19.11.2005, 0:58:29, Grant Goodyear wrote:
>
> > My preference is that the subdomain chosen should succinctly reflect
> > the role that arch testers serve. My personal preference would be
> > to choose som
It's just not clear to me that
it applies here. *Shrug*
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l, and I don't think it was wholly
unreasonable. The Council did go out of their way to emphasize that
there should not be a repeat of this event.
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nd cluttering them? Use CVS
> commit messages to track such things if you think you need it.
I generally suggest that devs follow agriffis' lead and use a tool that
generates the CVS commit message from the ChangeLog message.
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you have
my apology for not doing a very good job with this one.
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server than a CVS pull does.
In any event, do we need a new server anyway? We actually do have some
money that could be spent on such things, and the CVS server is really
high on the list of for which I, personally, would be more than willing
to spend it.
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problem is currently being
fixed.
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nurt when he left. You're welcome to
ask his permission to use it on the new site, as he might have changed
his mind since then.
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t;Community" panels with
limited scrolling.
As an aside, I would prefer to see something fairly soon, even if it's
more a face lift than a redesign, than wait another year before we
update the site.
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Grant Goodyear
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can choose to do so
from a stage 1 or 2, but would have to remove packages after the fact if
starting from a stage 3? I wouldn't have a problem with that, as long
as we document it, but it just seems that the claim that the old and new
methods produce _exactly_ the same results seems to be stret
Ciaran McCreesh wrote: [Tue Nov 22 2005, 12:17:47PM CST]
> On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:03:49 -0600 Grant Goodyear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> | I keep hearing this, isn't there a real difference between a stage 1
> | and a stage 3 install inasmuch as somebody who needs (or wan
how to do that would be nice. If that were done, then I would have no
complaints about the stage 1 and stage 2 tarballs going away altogether.
*Shrug*
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d be easier for people to create and maintain, and
its presence would quickly alert devs to potential quirks with a
possibly unfamiliar package. Of course, the drawback would be the
additional tree bloat.
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much rather see the nascent support go in, even at the
cost of expanding the tree a tad, rather than push it off into the
fairly distant future.
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suboptimal decisions in the past is a
> fact, but why aren't there more contributors to the GWN so that we two
> aren't single points of failure?
I suspect that the devs most likely to write an article for the GWN are
also those most likely to have a blog on planet.g.o. Given
Philip Webb wrote: [Wed Nov 30 2005, 04:34:56PM CST]
> As one of the "masses", I am certainly disturbed at that implication.
> I don't remember any such need when I upgraded 2.9.5 -> 3.x (now 3.3.6).
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/new-upgrade-to-gentoo-1.4.xml
-g2bo
d even have a fix-portage.sh script in
/usr/portage/scripts that would do the downloading and unpacking, if we
wanted to be particularly nice.) Backwards compatibility is nice, but
I'd really rather not see good ideas take a year to fully be implemented
unless absolutely required.
-g2b
, to reflect the new
format.
> If not, i'll commit my diff in 24h...
I actually had in mind a couple of days, just to make sure that people
had a reasonable chance to respond
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x27;ll be the one approving it, but I can agree that
having the change documented would be useful.
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t that I
have no problem with people doing hard work for little gain, if that's
what people want to do. *Shrug*
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hing a robust API between the readers and portage such that
> > | future changes won't cause breakage.
Wouldn't it suffice for the GLEP to simply have a statement that it will
query portage for a list of repositories, once there's a way to do that,
but until then the default r
Henrik Brix Andersen wrote: [Tue Dec 13 2005, 03:41:55PM CST]
> Since I have no idea on how to use docutils, I'd be grateful if
> someone familiar with the process (Grant?) could commit this to CVS.
Committed to CVS.
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Grant Goodyear
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> Modifications are required to portage anyway. Why postpone it until after
> several readers are written and force all of them become broken?
Okay, so what is the portage team proposing to use for a repo query API?
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Grant Goodyear
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t. The GLEP Last-Modified string is autogenerated
from CVS, so it's not in the -mm-dd format that the GLEP requires.
Help?
Thanks,
g2boojum
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ce.)
*Shrug* My feeling is that Gentoo is not advancing all that quickly
right now, but that it's being maintained fairly well. More
importantly, we still ensure that people _can_ make sweeping changes, if
they want to put in the work to do so. I'm actually fairly confident
about Gentoo
lack of sufficiently exciting goals, and a
concomitant lack of people sufficiently motivated to shepherd those
goals to a successful conclusion.
I think I'll stop here, since I'm not expressing my thoughts all that
well. *Sigh*
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lity and individual ideas.
[remainder snipped]
Well, that was said much better than I managed.
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e to anything that might add additional work to
already-overwhelmed package maintainers, however, and I believe that
the lack of an acceptable solution there is what stalled things the last
time around.
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dent of arch/os/whatever and (b) sent upstream. Consequently,
work on non-Linux actually does a fair bit to improve the entire
community.
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Grant Goodyear wrote: [Fri Jan 06 2006, 10:46:55AM CST]
> Addressing your point about Enterprise Gentoo, I think you're probably
> right about it needing focus, direction, and a leader, but that's quite
> different from needing Gentoo as a whole to have any of those. The
>
thing, it might also be useful to put
> something about "how to solve parallel make issues" and similar things
> that are tricky but usually just requires little knowledge of tricks.
Again, I like devspace for these things. Of course, particularly useful
docs would likely be adopted
it's ciarnanm has already put work in on developing an RST to
guidexml converter, so I wouldn't worry too much about RST not scaling.
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h means it's useless on most GLEPs unless someone goes through and
> does some serious whitespace cleanups...
I'm actually willing to do that, albeit not until after my brief vacation.
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G
ng anything.
> 5) What actual progress/work has been done thus far (no, don't need to
> document something publically viewable like "wrote bylaws")
> 6) A rough schedule of when things are going to be accomplished. Not
> asking for hard figures, but if you're held
ss you were
suggesting that you were going to remove the package yourself?
Does that make sense?
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Mark Loeser wrote:
> * In case of emergency, or if package maintainers refuse to cooperate,
> the QA team may take action themselves to fix the problem.
My suspicion is that the more common problem is going to be inaccessible
developers, rather than uncooperative ones. Certainly, if a maintaine
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> My point is that that's a nasty QA bug that's relying upon input from
> Stuart to be fixed. Whilst that one's still alive, I'm not going to go
> around filing more similar "breaks non-interactively" bugs because the
> discussion will just get repeated over and over.
Huh?
Stephen P. Becker wrote:
> Grant Goodyear wrote:
>> Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
>>> My point is that that's a nasty QA bug that's relying upon input from
>>> Stuart to be fixed. Whilst that one's still alive, I'm not going to go
>>> around filing
Renat Lumpau wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 28, 2006 at 04:31:37PM -0500, Mike Frysinger wrote:
>> today's lesson: proactive QA is frowned upon, it's only a bug when a user
>> files a report at bugs.gentoo.org
>
> I don't think that's the lesson. It oughtta be: we need a way to figure out
> which QA issues
Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Wednesday 01 March 2006 19:19, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
>> Unless there are any huge flaws found, I'd like this to be voted on by
>> the council -- looks like it'll have to wait until April's meeting to
>> fit in with the two weeks rule.
>
> may push council meeting back t
Sending this from the right address this time
-g2boojum-
Grant Goodyear wrote:
> Jakub Moc wrote:
>> Please, until something is clarified/some consent reached, avoid changing
>> the docs w/ funny stuff like "just flip a coin"...
>
> I don't believe the te
Jakub Moc wrote:
> Erm, how exactly will you find out that you need to recompile that package
> after such extensive build? You'll spend a couple of hours debugging when
> your server app stops working? Yay! :P
I had assumed that in such a case the ebuild would output a
scary-looking ewarn that no
Stuart Herbert wrote:
> I agree. Adopting a policy like this is a low quality solution for
> servers. I've no opinion on how this affects desktops, but packages
> for servers need to be precise.A policy that says "if two USE
> flags deliver the same benefits, but conflict, pick one" is fine.
After reading through that fairly lengthy thread, I'm afraid that I can
no longer tell exactly what is being proposed. Who has read access?
Who has write access? Bugs are handled where, and by whom? Are we
considering a fairly tightly controlled system, or a wild free-for-all?
Exactly which pro
urgency that required infra to do so? Wasn't that the outcome of the
recent discussions?
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ed from the action. WHO will view these behaviors as
> a security and stability threat to Gentoo? Is this a statement the
> existing developers are making? The foundation? Infra?
Here I'll certainly agree. In fact, I agree with the rest of your
statements, so I can stop here.
-
fect, start.
> I agree some of the wording should be altered, but I do think it's
> sensible for infra to cover when devrel falls on its rear.
Of course, it is possible that rational people might disagree that such
an event has happened here.
-g2boojum-
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Gentoo
f the doubt; ask what is meant instead of merely assuming
that your interpretation is correct If nothing else, it helps limit
escalation.")
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wer to
"How do I print from within vim?" than actual detailed instructions
would be.
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ks who made the ultimate decision. (Of course, if there's
general consensus, then that's not really necessary.)
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Vapier wrote: [Tue Apr 04 2006, 12:12:28AM CDT]
> On Monday 03 April 2006 22:57, Grant Goodyear wrote:
> > Oh, one more probably useless comment: I would argue that the decision
> > to enforce an etiquette guide that devs never really got to vote on has
> > lead to a lot
ould spend time
tracking Gentoo development (through bugs and the mailing lists) and
submit status reports to the GWN. Care to volunteer? I'd be happy to
provide pointers on how to get started.
-g2boojum-
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Curtis Napier wrote: [Mon Apr 10 2006, 09:53:04AM CDT]
> I'm willing to theme *.gentoo.org to match [...].
Speaking of which, what is the current status of the web redesign?
Thanks,
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GPG Fin
us, one thing that he
kept was the flying saucer guy. I believe that he was allowing us to
use it while we got the redesign put together, but since that's dead it
seems unfair to hold on to that flying saucer guy indefinitely.
-g2boojum-
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Vapier wrote: [Mon Apr 10 2006, 05:25:23PM CDT]
> On Monday 10 April 2006 15:37, Grant Goodyear wrote:
> > In any event, I think we need to remove the flying saucer guy. When
> > drobbins left and turned over the Gentoo IP to us, one thing that he
> > kept was the flying s
Whoops
--- Begin Message ---
I've attached a log of today's meeting.
The agenda included Gentoo's participation in Google's Summer of Code
and an update on portage gpg signing. In the former case, Gentoo has
applied to participate, and assuming we get one of the handful of
remaining slots then ge
hat the proposed changes would actually improve things.
There's a lot here, but perhaps we can streamline things a tad. What's
the major problem that you're looking to solve? Is it the shortage of
developers, or the lack of progress in a certain area, or the
(perceived?) difficulty in getting "foo" accomplished?
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Grant Goodyear wrote: [Fri Apr 28 2006, 01:55:01PM CDT]
> It's not quite true that the Council votes on GLEPs, but that's not
> really germane to your overall point.
Oh, that was your point. Mea culpa.
Okay, to address that point, the way that the current system works is
tha
what the Gentoo Foundation is for.
> Does anyone agree that having a council is too political? I strongly
> believe it stifles gentoo.
Do you have some specific examples of how you've seen the Council
stifle Gentoo, or is it mainly just a general impression?
-g2boojum-
--
Grant Goody
an't think of right now? (Please feel free to add.)
(As an aside, it's perfectly possible to set up git so that anybody in
the appropriate group can make changes.)
You seem to have an obvious preference for svn; care to to the
benchmarking for that case?
-g2boojum-
--
Grant Goody
A. Khattri wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Apr 2006, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
>
>> A. Khattri wrote:
>>> Does this sound right or is there a better (preferred?) way?
>> Try to fix --enable-conf-install to respect DESTDIR or whatever other
>> install method you're using, or look to see what flag it will take at
ybody know if we do still need people to help w/ LDAP?
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xplain why we have a cow's face on a 404 page or trying to
> explain why we like Larry is like trying to explain a love story: You
> just can't without everybody looking strange at you afterwards.
True!
-g2boojum-
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evidence to
the contrary, please let me know, and I'll see what I can do to obtain
any necessary rights.
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Chris Gianelloni wrote: [Wed May 10 2006, 08:32:01AM CDT]
> I have a copy of the font.
>
> It is ©2000 Ethan Dunham ‐ Fonthead Design ‐ http://www.fonthead.com
Thanks! Okay, it's part of their freeware font "font heads".
-g2boojum-
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Gentoo Develope
ad was if it wouldn't be simpler to add the
paludis-specific stuff to the existing files, and have portage ignore
it.)
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paludis installed-package database and can
generate the equivalent portage db)?
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that
sort of discussion is certainly not something that I would want to
discourage!
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Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> | 4) Will Paludis ever become a Gentoo Project?
>
> Pretty unlikely, past events considered. Personally I kind of like
> having commit access to my own code...
I thought we (Gentoo) already had SVN repositories with non-Gentoo-dev
committers? I'm pretty sure that was one
Paul de Vrieze wrote:
>> At present I ask not for support, but for a minor addition for
>> convenience purposes.
>
> One that has more disadvantages than advantages as already pointed out.
Many of your comments have been quite valuable, but I've noticed that
your recent posts fail to distinguish
Grant Goodyear wrote:
> Incidentally, in reading this thread it seems to me that a tendency to
> offer opinions (or predictions) as though they were facts has been a
> common theme. Please try to separate the two, whenever possible.
Just to clarify, I was not limiting that comment
Carsten Lohrke wrote:
> Stop making such odd and wrong comparisons. The package manager is part of
> what defines a distribution, choosing a shell is the users choice. If you
> want to make the package manager matter of choice, start your own
> distribution.
Just because it has historically bee
king things harder
> for the people who do real work around here. If you don't have anything
> useful to contribute, shut up and go away.
*Sigh* Be nice, please. Incidentally, he did have a point that this
thread is now darn hard to follow. Perhaps it's time to split of
ouldn't Gentoo then just fork the package manager? Am I
missing something obvious?
-g2boojum-
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Grant Goodyear
Gentoo Developer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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rating
release media" being on obvious example).
Perhaps something like the following would suffice:
GLEP: xx
Title: Supporting alternative package managers
Version: $Revision: 1.3 $
Last-Modified: $Date: 2005/11/13 17:16:50 $
Author: Grant Goodyear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Status: Dr
Mark Loeser wrote:
> At long last the devmanual is official. You can find it at
> http://devmanual.gentoo.org. I would like to thank plasmaroo for helping
> me with converting it to XML (since he did all of the XSL work to add in
> the features we needed to make it easy to write and expand upon).
that my name was not listed in the section titled
"Authors".)
Finally, the whole issue goes away by either changing the heading on that
first page from "Authors" to "Maintainers" or "Editors", or by adding
the list of contributors back to this page. It'
s additional detail, perhaps) would suffice, I'd think:
Authors
---
Ciaran McCreesh, Grant Goodyear, Aaron Walker, Robert Coie, Tom
Martin, Paul Varner, Ilya Volynets-Evenbakh, Diego Patteno Fernando J.
Pareda, Simon Stelling, Alin Dobre, and Joseph Jezak
Seem reasonable?
-g2boojum-
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Gran
Mark Loeser wrote: [Wed May 24 2006, 04:37:44PM CDT]
> Grant Goodyear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> > How was the conversion done? Do we now have a tool to convert rst to
> > guidexml, or was the conversion all done by hand (which would be a truly
> > frightening
Mark Loeser wrote:
> Basically, it would be something that allowed you to "browse" the current
> tree of submitted ebuilds. This way users that submit something can
> categorize it for devs to easily look for ebuilds they may be interested
> in, and we can make it so we could easily grab the ebuild
t;) that was either
overlooked in the rest of that thread or ignored because people
considered it to be useless; I'm not sure which. In any event, I just
want to bring it to the council's attention as an alternative approach.
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Grant Goodyear
Gentoo Developer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nk it's still required.
> -motif - is unmaintained in portage and rather outdated, does not look good.
> Should not be default for optional interfaces
I believe that flag is mainly there to reduce the "Hey, my xpdf package
lacks the xpdf binary" bugs.
-g2boojum-
--
Grant Goodyear
peer review? Do we have
any statistics or anecdotal evidence for what's improving, and whether
or not anything is getting worse as a result?
-g2boojum-
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Grant Goodyear
Gentoo Developer
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ion. Probably the
> same for a few archs.
I didn't say that the x86 policy was a bad one. I was rather hoping
that x86 was doing peer review and at least one other arch team wasn't,
since then we could try to make some sort of quantitative comparison.
-g2boojum-
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Grant Goodyear
ES, CFLAGS, and CXXFLAGS per package? (Of course,
I do realize that it's the lack of such files that lead vapier to
propose his solution, which is rather more convenient for one-off
builds.)
-g2boojum-
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Grant Goodyear
Gentoo Developer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum
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, I'd think that would make life
much simpler for everybody.
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Grant Goodyear
Gentoo Developer
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So, what would people think of moving herds.xml from gentoo/misc into
the portage tree, with the rationale being that local tools could use
that information for various useful purposes (compiling statistics,
doing something that I can't think of right now, whatever)?
-g2boojum-
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Grant Goo
entoo.org address and add a portage hook that warns whenever the
project sunrise overlay is used, then our reputation isn't really likely
to suffer even if it's a complete disaster.
So, Chris, what have I failed to address that would make this a really
bad idea?
-g2boojum-
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Grant
l-knowing Zen argument isn't
particularly helpful
-g2boojum-
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Grant Goodyear
Gentoo Developer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum
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at people are likely to
install outside of portage, the kernel would be it.)
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Grant Goodyear
Gentoo Developer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum
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es and then create local accounts
with those values. Anybody who actually has a clue want to chime in?
Oh, it might be a good idea to ask in [EMAIL PROTECTED], too.
-g2boojum-
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Grant Goodyear
Gentoo Developer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.gentoo.org/~g2boojum
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