The ASF loves the Greek Myth :-) Mentor was Odysseus's good teacher and
mental supporter. I prefer Mentor to Shepherd.
Er, the ASF rarely speaks with one voice -- Stefano loves the Greek
Myth,
and the rest of us just tolerate it because we like Stefano. ;-)
Personally, I prefer Shepherd, since o
The STATUS file is passive. Jira is active. The STATUS file requires
the
submitter to have CVS commit access to that module, and CVS knowledge.
Jira
has its own access control, and a built-in UI. The STATUS file
requires
human parsing to understand the priorities. Jira has a prioritization
I have checked in the incubator CVS a new version of the Incubator
site, with a proposed new layout.
I am now stuck with exactly this issue, the STATUS files.
Could you give me a hand in making a version that can be effectively
used for identifying action items in order?
We could use a status.x
Assuming the Apache DB PMC approves Axion as a new subproject:
1) Other than the attribution of copyright to the ASF, the switch to
the
ASL, and the submission of a signed CLA for those that haven't already
done so, what specfic criteria/goals need to be met in order to
succesfully complete incub
The page is obsolete and does not reflect reality, the distinction is
really not there.
Right, the existing web site is nothing more than a draft. That is why
it is a bit silly to create all these other "draft" and "whiteboard" and
"wiki" places for other drafts. Please move all relevant content
Cannot open /home/cvs/CVSROOT/commitlogs/incubator: Permission denied
The group permissions on that file are wrong -- I've asked root to
fix it.
Roy
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One of the things that happened when we updated the main incubator
site is
that it blew away the project site(s). What do we want to tell a
project to
do about its site. How should Geronimo link a project site into what
is now
their STATUS page?
Obviously, they can just "do it", but is there
I think that producing a single repository, or at least a set of
mechanisms that allow a single storage facility to look like a
repository with multiple interfaces, is a task for infrastructure
and commons to work out (meaning that the people who have interest
in such a thing will work together to
So if I understand this correctly the discussions on [EMAIL PROTECTED]
should now be conducted on infrastructure where we are talking about
the
physical layout of the repository in a file system that is accessible
via http.
It is my understanding that repository is a topic-specific mailing list
on
Small note - some of the participants on the [EMAIL PROTECTED] are
discussing the actual requirements - which from my (and other) point(s)
of view go beyond a file-system http protocol cut-and-dried
implementation
solution. Some consider this area to be much more than an HTTP
download
handler. I
It is usually unwise to mix insults with requests. However,
the point of collaboration is not to obtain the civility of a
collegial discussion over tea; the point is to accomplish the
task. Continual discussion of issues that are not relevant to
the task being collaborated upon is not collaborati
I would add one more requirement to above statement - namely
"machine-friendly". There is an emerging requirement for application
driven downloading that has the potential to significantly exceed the
classic browser driven requirements that the ASF is addressing today.
This has a direct impac
The /www/incubator.apache.org/ directory tree on minotaur contains
both a checked-out incubator-site *and* the generated output of a
forrestbot via incubator. It obviously can't be both.
Personally, I've had my fill of this kind of crap being left on
our public infrastructure. I shouldn't have to
onger
need to be incubated.
....Roy
===
From: "Roy T. Fielding" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed Mar 12, 2003 9:46:04 PM America/Los_Angeles
To: members at apache.org
Subject: PMCs gone wild
I am getting a bit frustrated at what appears to be a serious attitude
problem w
Secondly, given the original intent of the concept of a PMC, I am
curious as to why the board permitted umbrella PMCs such as XML and
Jakarta.
The board did not create umbrella PMCs -- XML was Xerces and Jakarta
was Tomcat/Watchdog. They grew beyond that because their names implied
more, and nob
-1: Repo is an American colloquialism that is short for "Repossession",
which is not something you want in a distribution tool. You need
to find a neutral name.
Roy
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For addi
Why do we need grand site publications schemes? Geronimo is using Maven
and it's trivial to site:deploy.
Umm, it took three weeks to find someone capable of running site:deploy
for Geronimo. I think I was the third person who tried (and failed).
I think it would be better to build from CVS, but fo
We're going take Sander's advice here and would like to
make sure that all the following users are added to the
[EMAIL PROTECTED] list. We will shutdown
the sf.net mail lists once we have confirmation that all
users have been added.
Why don't you simply ask those people to subscribe to the new lis
Apache was named after the Apache tribes -- "a patchy" server was an
afterthought. We've generally avoided any discussion of the topic
because involvement of a native american "activist" will only result
in trouble for us. Those people are not Apache -- they don't even have
a clue. The various t
I honestly didn't think the use of the name in this context was an
abuse.
I don't think it is abuse -- he is a historical figure and he died
over 100 years ago, so there is no real fear of being sued for it.
I just think it is wrong.
Roy
The project was initiated on condition that the name would be
reconsidered prior to becoming a TLP. I don't really care at this
point, except to note that if we do get an objection regarding the
name from folks who have a right to object, then the project will
have to change its name and everyone
Roy made a comment that a condition for leaving the incubator is that
the
name be changed. I hadn't heard that before, but those are two
incompatible
views.
I said that the condition was that it would be reconsidered; basically,
that any comments to the effect that it is now "too late" or the na
There is no reason for a project to have a final destination until
it has to go somewhere other than incubator, at which point it can
decide whether it wants to be a TLP (calling for a board vote) or
part of an existing project (calling for that project's pmc to vote).
Maybe we should have a six mo
I also don't think it's really that much work on the behalf of a
project
trying to enter Apache to do a little leg work in resolving that before
entering.
I didn't say they shouldn't try -- I said it wasn't necessary.
As far as I am concerned, no existing project should be allowed
to create autono
We need to finish voting here, but in the meantime go ahead and fill
out a
new copy as axion.cwiki. When the vote passes, we will make sure that
you
and/or the DB PMC Chair has karma for the CVS module to check it in.
Then
the PPMC can review it, and if there are no issues, we can probably
ho
If this isn't constructive criticism, I don't know
what is. Axion was told one thing, and now that
incubation time has arrive, they're being told
another. That's the critical part. I think we should
honor the original plan of incubation. That's the
constructive part.
I don't believe for a secon
+1
Roy
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Normative material seems to indicate otherwise. Reference?
Moving an Apache project to TLP is a decision by the board. They
might ask incubator to help do something, but they haven't yet.
Roy
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There was a VOTE on [EMAIL PROTECTED] and we are VOTE'd to graduate JaxMe.
Please go ahead and adjust
the web site and wish you all best of luck :)
thanks,
dims
Dims, as I have mentioned before, we cannot vote on such things
on a private list, which is why I did not vote and why you did not
recei
what happens if a ASF sponsored project (lets take jakarta for example)
is the subject of a patent dispute say 2-3 years from inception.
We either ask the patent owner for a license or wait until the patent
owner demands we have one, depending on the nature of the patent.
and lets say that the pate
+1
Roy
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It's also interesting to note that the current ASF license,
"Apache License 2.0" (http://apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0),
includes text (see paragraph 5) that basically says that any
time someone makes a contribution to Apache, they are implicitly
agreeing to license their contribution under the A
+1
Roy
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I would like to get personally involved in this project. I'll add
myself to the ppmc and dev lists when they are created, but whether
or not I am listed as an initial committer I'll leave up to the
folks proposing the project [OTOH, if I am, that will pretty much
obligate me to stay involved, at l
+1
Roy
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Under no circumstance is it ever appropriate to cc the pmc list
when talking on a public list. Just don't do it. The only reason
we have that list is to talk about things that cannot be discussed
in public. It is not "where the PMC lives". It is not necessary
to get the "PMC's attention". The
On Monday, May 24, 2004, at 02:47 PM, Cliff Schmidt wrote:
Based on the Incubator's approval* of the Beehive project, please
create the following public mailing lists and enable them to be
viewable through Eyebrowse:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Done. I have sub'd Cliff to both lists, as w
On Friday, June 11, 2004, at 04:01 AM, Leo Simons wrote:
[is the rule that a project just needs 3 independent committers, or is
there an additional rule that no more than 50% of the committers must
be part of a single company?]
IIRC that 50% rule applies, but IANAL. Roy, Nicola?
I have no idea
Personally, I'd like to see one or two quantitative rules (such as one
about independent committers to allow for vetoes) and then leave the
rest
up to a voting body that will evaluate graduation against some general
guidelines. I also think the voting body should be the PPMC, which is
made up of
+1
Roy
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+1
Roy
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+1 (never been much for voting templates)
Roy
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On Tuesday, August 10, 2004, at 12:52 PM, Michael Wechner wrote:
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
I assumed that no votes would be counted as positive silent votes
Nope. There is a notion of "Lazy Consenus", but silence is not a
vote.
Please apologize if I don't fully understand, but how
do you define "
CK, Tools, Docs
1.5. Identify the initial set of committers
+---------+
|Roy T. Fielding |Day |ASF, httpd, APR, incubator|
|-++---
+1
Roy
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What are the chances that you would consider Subversion instead of CVS?
We are already using cvs. Subversion would be an added distraction,
and I am not yet convinced that it is adequately protected against
database corruption and password guessing.
Roy
Could someone aware of its status please add MyFaces to the
incubator projects section, like the other incubating podlings:
http://incubator.apache.org/projects/index.html
http://incubator.apache.org/howtoparticipate.html#Updating+the+site
Roy
---
start
creating the status files, mailing lists, etc. In order to save
infrastructure some work, the developers have decided to start
with SVN instead of CVS.
Roy
[*] binding +1s from Roy T. Fielding, Noel J. Bergman,
Nicola Ken Barozzi, Berin Lautenbach, Leo Simons, Greg Stein,
Cliff Sc
On Sep 6, 2004, at 5:37 AM, David Crossley wrote:
As i have said in other threads i would like to assist more
with the Incubator website. This would be the case no matter
what documentation system is going to be used. So would i have
karma to commit to the Incubator CVS.
Karma is granted. Thanks f
I was working on the initial docs and mailing lists over the weekend
and got stuck on making a distinction between the JCR API (JSR 170)
and the Apache podling creating an implementation of it. As Gianugo
said on the Slide mailing list
...my first proposal would be rethink the name: jcr or jcrr
That is correct. 2 main issues with any codebase
that the ASF develops is that (1) it be under the
Apache License and (2) that the Copyright be assigned
to the ASF.
So it must be licensed "by" the ASF (via the AL) and
"owned" by the ASF.
That is not correct: CLAs and software grants are licenses,
n
On Sep 15, 2004, at 2:55 PM, Jennifer B Machovec wrote:
I think the short-term (and maybe even long-term) resolution to the
copyright notice issue may be having the ASF copyright notice in each
main
file clearly apply to the whole project. This could read, for example:
"Apache Derby is (c) Copyri
Collective work Copyright 2004 The Apache Software Foundation.
[AL 2.0 Template]
Derivative work Copyright 2004 Some Other Contributor.
Licensed to the ASF under a contributor agreement.
Copyright 2004 Contributor Company, Inc.
Licensed to the ASF under a contributor a
On Sep 24, 2004, at 4:27 AM, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
okey, after discussing this in seven different directions, we
have a clear conclusion, which i'll summarise here:
A conclusion by whom? The board? Robyn? IBM?
1. the NOTICE file (or NOTICE.txt) gets created if it doesn't
already exist
Never cross-post to community.
what if incubating mentors would abuse their powers to interfer with
the
normal evolution of Apache incubation projects.
What is "normal evolution"? For that matter, what are the mentor powers
that you are speaking of here? Mentoring is a burden, not a power.
I thi
We should create https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/agila, and
move
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/site-publish/
project
s/agila to wherever under the agila project's structure you want to
keep
your site sources. The same is true of the generated artifacts, wh
On Oct 4, 2004, at 7:23 AM, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:
Jennifer B Machovec wrote:
I thought it might be helpful to give some background on the "all
rights
reserved" phrase. The requirement for this phrase originated in the
Buenos Aires Convention of 1910, which provided that a copyright
owner
The Jackrabbit project has completed all of the Incubator checklist
items in terms of moving to Apache and getting the IP transfer done.
With the help of Maven, we have a full website set up at
http://incubator.apache.org/jackrabbit/
with a few link bugs due to the svn/viewcvs integration. Our
Please vote on the Castle incubation proposal:
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/CastleProposal
-1. Find more people interested in the project.
Sorry, but I have nothing positive to say about containers in terms
of engendering useful communities, let alone CLI containers.
And I am not going to v
There is no problem. There is no reason at all for any one project
to "own" the CMS space at Apache. It makes sense for Slide to replace
its back-end with Jackrabbit for one and only one reason: such an
architecture will enable substitutability of its back-end and simplify
Slide's implementation.
-1 The incubator status file does not reflect any progress towards
clearing the IP (you MUST update that file).
Furthermore, the release artifacts use names that are trademarked and in
use by other projects. Some questions need to be answered, while others
require a rename:
1) Has Matt Wals
+1
Roy
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Niclas Hedhman wrote:
Janus is "God of Gates and Doorways" and a moon of Saturn was named
after him in 1966.
http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/profile.cfm?Object=Sat_Janus
The sited web page is about arbitration of a domain name and to
regain control of such domain name. Janus Capital Group do
On Dec 27, 2004, at 8:16 PM, Alex Karasulu wrote:
Before discussing each specific item below I'd like to point out a few
things. The ASF had through the incubator given us a link to an
online service for looking up trademarks. We were told this service
should be used to determine if there were
On Dec 28, 2004, at 6:22 PM, Trustin Lee wrote:
I'm the author of MINA (Multipurpose Infrastructure for Network
Applications) subproject in Apache Directory project. We are checking
our project names before releasing them. I checked the name 'MINA',
and I found three trademark holders. None of t
On Dec 30, 2004, at 10:26 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
I believe that there are some misunderstandings. There is an
architecture
for a unified Directory Server. That server is made from a number of
components: the core JNDI backend, the local JNDI code, the network
support,
ASN.1 encoding support
Noel recognized the vote, you need three +1s from the
following group of people (the incubator pmc):
Aaron Bannert
Noel Bergman
Nicola Ken Barozzi
Ken Coar
Morgan Delegrange
Roy T. Fielding
Ceki Gulcu
Paul Hammant
James Holmes
Ted Husted
Jim Jagielski
On Jan 5, 2005, at 1:24 AM, Raphaël Luta wrote:
I have the following requests pending for Graffito:
Mailing-lists:
--
Name: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Archives: public, Eyebrowse
Moderator:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
done except for eyebrowse
Name: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Archives: public, Eyebrowse
Modera
The update system Eclipse uses requires stable (unchanging) URLs
for the plugins. We'd like to get the Derby plugin for Eclipse
into that system, which means we'd like to see about getting a
URL which won't change when/if Derby graduates.
In what address space?
In any persistent address a.o space
On Jan 17, 2005, at 2:25 PM, Doug Cutting wrote:
I don't appear to yet have the Karma to do this, so I've attached a
diff. Since I'll expect to update this frequently, I should probably
get the required Karma. How do I do that?
You now have karma, mailing lists, and a subversion repository.
Ple
+1, have fun.
Roy
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and you willingness/ability
to sign and submit a Contributor License Agreement found at
http://www.apache.org/licenses/#clas
Feel free to decline the nomination if you do not desire
commit access at this time, or if you are unable to sign the
CLA for any reason.
Cheers,
Roy T. Fielding
I hereby nominate Jukka Zitting ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) on the
basis of his sustained interest, quality of work, and desire
to contribute to the project on a long-term basis. Please vote
with your +1 for yes, +0 for abstain, or -1 (not at this time).
+1
Roy
-
jackrabbit site was offline for about 24 hours before it was noticed
by the developers.
Begin forwarded message:
From: Roy T. Fielding <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: February 8, 2005 1:17:20 PM PST
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: is http://incubator.apache.org/jackrabbit/ down?
Reply-To:
On Feb 8, 2005, at 1:58 PM, David Crossley wrote:
Do you have a clue as to how this would have happened?
Do you mean that it disappeared when the top-level Incubator
site was generated? It should not, because the project sites
are separate from the top-level site.
I have no idea -- the entire direc
With no objections and plenty of +1s, the Jackrabbit PPMC and
Incubator PMC hereby approve the addition of Jukka Zitting as
a committer on the Jackrabbit project.
Jackrabbit PPMC:
+1 Roy Fielding
+1 Stefan Guggisberg
+1 Stefano Mazzocchi
+1 David Nuescheler
+1 Peeter Piegaze
+1 Gi
+1
Personally, I needed to see the PPMC make a decision first.
Roy
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On Feb 13, 2005, at 6:50 PM, Clinton Begin wrote:
How do you all deal with autoresponders when they're responding to
mailing list posts?
Do you kick the user? Is there a filter?
kick them
Roy
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On Feb 28, 2005, at 7:25 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:
Dave Johnson wrote:
Proposal for [EMAIL PROTECTED] (prepared by Dave Johnson - Feb 28, 2005)
We the committers and friends of the open source Roller Weblogger
project propose that the project become part of the Apache Software
Foundation. The rest
+1
Roy
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On Mar 7, 2005, at 8:05 AM, Ceki Gülcü wrote:
Is there any opposition or reservations in relation to the log4net
snapshot release mentioned by Nicko and myself a few days ago?
If not could we allow log4net to move forward?
If the subproject has cleared its IP issues sufficient to make
a release,
On Mar 9, 2005, at 3:00 AM, Ceki Gülcü wrote:
At 01:39 AM 3/9/2005, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
See Roy's message about the need to update the status file. One would
expect that this is simply an oversight, and that the Logging PMC did
not
vote for a release with IP issues still open.
Indeed, the soft
On Mar 10, 2005, at 2:20 AM, Ceki Gülcü wrote:
Roy et al.,
Done. I committed the updates yesterday as shown by the SVN
notification message below. I now go on and update the section about
3rd party libraries.
I would say that all IP concerns related to log4net have been
addressed. Would you con
On the contrary, the rule is that you must have at least three
binding +1 votes from the PMC in order to make a release of anything.
I don't believe in umbrella projects, so from my perspective log4net
is just one subdirectory in logging. If logging wants to take
responsibility for it and logging
On Mar 14, 2005, at 3:08 AM, Ceki Gülcü wrote:
At 07:53 PM 3/12/2005, Roy T.Fielding wrote:
On the contrary, the rule is that you must have at least three
binding +1 votes from the PMC in order to make a release of anything.
Roy,
For me, the accepting responsibility over a project, say X, translate
common
denominator of project success.
Cheers,
Roy T. Fielding<http://roy.gbiv.com/>
Chief Scientist, Day Software <http://www.day.com/>
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Fo
On Mar 21, 2005, at 2:57 AM, Jukka Zitting wrote:
Hi,
The Incubator mailing list archives at
http://incubator.apache.org/mail/
seem to be last updated about a month ago at 2005-02-22. Is there
something wrong, or have I missed something?
(Cross-posting to incubator-general and infrastructure, as
+1
Roy
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Sorry, I'd like to vote for this, but someone was being cute
and removed a lot of relevant questions from the template at
http://incubator.apache.org/projects/derby.html
and thus I don't have the answers that the ASF needs. For
comparison, see the tables in
http://incubator.apache.org/projects
There are more important issues with graduation as Roy just pointed
out with his veto. I think once these technicalities are settled this
project is ready.
Er, just a vote -- there is no veto for this type of decision.
I will change my vote to +1 as soon as the documentation is fixed.
Roy
--
Pardon my ignorance but where does this file live and do I have karma
to update it?
Any committer on an incubator project has karma
Information on how to make incubator site changes can be found at
http://incubator.apache.org/howtoparticipate.html
The incubator site uses Forrest, not Maven; most
On Apr 18, 2005, at 3:16 PM, Doug Cutting wrote:
http://www.apache.org/licenses/software-grant.txt
Is that what I should file?
Yes, at least for now.
I suppose we could also transfer the Nutch copyright, trademark, logo,
etc. if desired. Nutch does not have a registered trademark. I don't
know
On Apr 22, 2005, at 2:22 PM, Daniel John Debrunner wrote:
I personally don't see this problem with Derby, all Derby design
decisions seem to be happening on the list. So I'm not sure if
Jackrabbit and Derby have the same problems.
How can you know? I know the amount of progress that we are
making
On Apr 22, 2005, at 8:55 AM, Brian Behlendorf wrote:
It's not so much "dissonance" as an exception. In an incubating
project, the developers are usually new to the ASF, and skipped the
meritocracy step by virtue of association with the project before it
entered Apache ("here's the list of commi
ue to the unfinished nature of the
JSR 170 Content Repository for Java Technology API. JSR 170 is
expected to be submitted for final draft status in early May,
after which all of the discussion can be moved to Apache lists.
We anticipate graduating from Incubator sometime soon after that.
Cheers,
+1
Roy
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On May 6, 2005, at 9:20 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
The aforementioned issues between GPL and AL aside, I am still trying
to see
how the TCK licensing restrictions are compatible with the GPL.
According
to the FSF licensing page, the Apache License is deemed by the FSF to
be
"incompatible with t
On May 7, 2005, at 12:38 PM, Paul Hammant wrote:
Unless I am mistaken, Apache licensed code will never be able to
'legally' import GPL code.
You are mistaken -- the copyright owner can do whatever they want,
as can users. It is only redistributors that are constrained on
how they can combine and
+1
Roy
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On May 21, 2005, at 12:08 AM, Jukka Zitting wrote:
David Crossley wrote:
There is no need to Cc this to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
This stuff is a concern of the project.
OK, I'm sorry for that, just learning the correct procedures...
No need to be sorry -- David is confused. Incubator is the projec
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