, as I'm fed up with bickering and want to see
things done.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussio
Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
Hi,
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:02:59 +0200
Nicola Ken Barozzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm the moderator there, and I didn't see your mail.
I apologise for missing it, it was not intentional. Sorry.
Okay, then can the config of the [EMAIL PROTECTED]
be ch
wrote:
On 10/3/2003 10:37 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
My simple question about who is actually on the PMC has also gone
unanswered, though it has only been three days.
Aaron Bannert
Nicola Ken Barozzi (Chair select)
Noel Bergman (new member)
Ken Coar
Roy Fielding
B. W. Fitzpatrick
, and will
always be like this.
Therefore I propose that we move the STATUS files of incubator CVS into
incubator-site, so that they will be included in the website, then kill
off incubator and rename incubator-site to incubator.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROT
counselor, and
Shepherd as a a guide. Hence I think that Mentor is both more
appropriate for the name and more understandable.
(KenC seems to prefer it too IIRC)
My take: leave Mentor, and take a quick poll in case others really won't
take it.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROT
s, we have new members that are
active and we are making th esite easier to update.
Case closed. :-)
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code re
Sam Ruby wrote:
Berin Lautenbach wrote:
...
If there isn't - does anyone mind if I set up a cron job to update the
site from CVS every six hours?
I just added this to the list of sites that I automatically update
(every six hours).
Thanks :-)
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [
he Incubator Logo
3 - They all have as a bottom line disclaimer a note that the roject
is in incubation
Note that point 2 and 3 have not much to do with infrastructure, and
point 1 is not under direct control of this list, as the project members
would still have access to the incuba
Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 11:49:01 +0200
Nicola Ken Barozzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Sorry, but this has not worked.
I guess you had a karma for jakarta-site2 and you had left
1. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
..
at http://jakarta.apac
Sam Ruby wrote:
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
Sam Ruby wrote:
...
It seems to me a disclaimer on the website, perhaps also in the root
directory of the associated CVS trees, and a process which prevents
any official "release" to be created by projects in incubation should
be more than
ort.
Does this sound reasonable?
As for the titular topic, I have no problem with the two modules merging.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just co
he
STATUS files and incubator-site for the site.
I hope that in a couple of days we will be ready to switch.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussio
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
...
I'll checkin today the draft version of this site in the "incubator" CVS
module, and will be working on it to polish it.
Done. Tomorrow it's about integrating the html files that are in the
root dir and moving the STATUS files.
Suggestions we
issue tracker can easily be made to
do it. In any case, we are not talking about 200 action items, but 20.
And as I said, they are free to *also* use an issue-tracker, as long as
the mentor reports these in CVS in a reasonabe timeframe (ie a couple of
weeks)
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
I agree with Nicola Ken (and you) about using the STATUS file for
project status, and had originally thought to suggest that such
change requests could be entered into the STATUS file, too.
I have checked in the incubator
e, ie incubator. But
it's a WIP, so I also kept the other site. The new proposed site in in
inbcubator CVS.
BTW, I wrote two mails about it on this list, did you miss them? I mean,
are we still having problems with mails?
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
On Sat, Oct 04, 2003 at 11:49:01AM +0200, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
I knew that many did not want renamings to occur, being touted as
"expensive", so I still stand behind my last proposal (that has been
trimmed here) which seems to me like a possible "co
ubation process)
- learn/ (learn about Apache)
- projects/ (incubation status of projects
*one* file per project)
/success/ (projects that have exited positivly)
/failure/ (projects that have not made it out of incubation)
Does this sound good?
--
Nic
Berin Lautenbach wrote:
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
...
I noticed in the new version that Drafts now takes a reader to the Wiki,
and there is a "Final Drafts" subsection of the main incubation pages.
Is this giving the Wiki pages a more official status than previously?
Nope, I just
take place.
You will then need a Mentor, that has to be an Apache member, that will
be responsible for your project and become part of this PMC for all the
incubation.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions
ble project status boilerplate doc
2 - update site/projects/index.cwiki to reflect real resources
3 - start voting the RFCs
[1]
http://www.apache.org/~nicolaken/whiteboard/incubator-draft-new-site/index.html
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, sc
s ready, so you
can help me on that one later. Thanks.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
-
--
/ViewLists
You can quote entire threads there too:
http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED]&by=thread&from=386622&to=386622
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discuss
PMC.
In the case of AltRMI, FtpServer, Geronimo there is no sponsoring
destination PMC, so it's the Incubator PMC.
As for other resources, AFAIK each project uses what it wants, if not
against the rules of the eventual destination
initiated. Should that not be the case?
That's the expected timeframe, IOW what time the project thinks it will
take to satisfy all the STATUS points.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just
currently defined Sponsor follows the
project and that the Mentor is always pre-proposed by the candidate (so
we don't need go hinting for it).
What do you think?
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgo
site not updated and the Wiki
stuff still there after being already moved to the CVS, I will fix this
just after sending this mail.
BTW, things like the CLA form do not belong in incubator. I'll start
moving them to the www.apache.org/dev site.
Ok.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi
ocal "incubator" CVS dir
execute "forrest run"
point the browser to http://localhost:/ to see the site
edit the docs *in place* and see changes in teh browser by reloading
the page
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, script
es when there is good
consensus.
Objections?
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
-
---
MAIL PROTECTED] list.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
-
size: http://cocoon.apache.org/
ATM I'll go with (1).
Now that the site changes are in place, what are the odds we can get the
Directory project setup before I leave for Software Summit?
Added to the list of incubated projects.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jim Jagielski wrote:
At yesterday's board meeting, the ASF board made it official.
Nicola Ken Barozzi is the new Incubator PMC Chair.
>
> Congrats!
Thanks :-)
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions ge
champions a new candidate and works to see it
through the incubation process.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains
"Project being incubated"?
BTW, in Google, search for "incubator", and you will find "Apache
Incubator Project" under "Business > Venture Capital > Incubators".
-
Berin Lautenbach wrote:
BTW - Have checked changes in - how do I update the site?
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
My understanding was that there will always be a PMC (or
the board) that accepts a candidate on behalf of the ASF.
Where there is no Sponsor, the Incubator PMC acts in that
role and votes
the rest should be simply docs that complement it as HOWTOs.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotte
te on development. Basically a common dev- list.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code re
Berin Lautenbach wrote:
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
I also want to make sure that we well know where things stand in every
incubation moment, as there has been enough confusion
withdouble-triple PMC concurrent votes.
+1
That said, I also think that we need *one* document to guide us, and
all
Berin Lautenbach wrote:
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
...
I've tried to draw a very clear distinction in all my e-mails that there
is one main document (that I've been calling normative, or the policy)
only. Everything else (such as the process document or roles and
responibilities) is
pens.
Over at krysalis.org and here with Geronimo I have seen that when there
is a bunch of people with the same itch and an open CVS space, things
happen.
Shall we try it with Repo?
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(disc
peter royal wrote:
On Nov 7, 2003, at 4:15 AM, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
Proposal:
This is a new kind of incubation that I'd like to try. It's not an
established project that wants to come to Apache, rather an effort
that wants to try and see if it can work, similar to Geronimo b
peter royal wrote:
On Nov 7, 2003, at 11:29 AM, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
The developers of Ruper in the meantime have become Apache committers
(two for Gump and one is coming in with JUDDI). The issue here is that
Maven already has some code for this, and
http://greebo.sourceforge.net/ is
ss.
Hmmm, the different thing is the fact that it's not a single community
and codebase. Other than that, I tend to agree.
There is no guarantee that it will succeed, but there
isn't supposed to be one.
Yup, of course.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
am. If it "feels big" and/or infrastructure is hinky
about taking it on, *then* we could find a different home.
Yes, IMHO we should not decide the final destination of it. What we need
though is some PMC that accepts to make incubation. I'll ask the
Incubator PMC then.
--
Nic
Jason van Zyl wrote:
On Fri, 2003-11-07 at 12:16, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
peter royal wrote:
On Nov 7, 2003, at 11:29 AM, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
The developers of Ruper in the meantime have become Apache committers
(two for Gump and one is coming in with JUDDI). The issue here is that
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
On Friday, November 7, 2003, at 11:29 AM, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
It has already been done there, at http://www.krysalis.org/ruper/ .
Wasn't it already done with jjar and whatever the thingy in Maven is
called?
Not really, it does more... and to some extent less
Jason van Zyl wrote:
On Sat, 2003-11-08 at 05:09, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
Ok, I read what you said and we'll chalk it up to miscommunication and a
misunderstanding. I am admittedly obstinate and can be unflexible, I
never meant the level of animosity to grow to the point that it d
ssion.
*sigh*
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code re
Jason van Zyl wrote:
On Sat, 2003-11-08 at 16:07, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
...
What I meant is not about implementation, but about doing things
collaboratively rather than in competition.
Hopefully this can start with the repository effort. We've got Ruper,
Greebo and Wagon (Michal's r
peter royal wrote:
On Nov 9, 2003, at 3:59 AM, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
At the end a community vote decides the codebase to adopt or we can as
well be left with just one proposal.
This is what I had in mind from the beginning; what do you think?
Repo != a codebase. Its just a spec.
[EMAIL
I have said more than once on this list that I would take care in
updating the site if others do not want to do so. So just edit the files
in CVS, what's the problem?
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
Roy T. Fielding wrote:
The /www/incubator.apache.org/ directory tree on minotaur contains
both a checked-out incubator-site *and* the generated output of a
forrestbot via incubator. It obviously can't be both.
...
/geronimo (old CVS dirs)
Wait a sec, you mean
geronimo/
eventual extra stuff
projectX/
eventual extra stuff
...
projects/
geronimo/ (project site, use their CVS preferably)
projectX/ (project site, use their CVS preferably)
...
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [
but not linked from anywhere,
hence not on the site. I'm fixing it right now.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions
ly the specific
claims but also the code base in general.
"
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotte
link to the above message to the wiki
(which is the nearest to a project website that we have) and I'm
updating the incubator docs.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussion
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
Brian Behlendorf wrote:
...
Can I suggest putting this someplace more obvious, like
/www/incubator.apache.org/UPDATING, or something?
How to render and update the _incubator_ site is here:
http://incubator.apache.org/howtoparticipate.html#Updating+the+site
Oops, I was
actice, it all boils down just to change our docs to have more than
one Mentor, and that all project members that abide to the Mentor
definition should become Mentors.
What do you think?
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(d
Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
From the current incubations, it's becoming quite clear IMO that a
single Mentor is not enough for most, if not all, incubated projects.
As far as JaxMe is concerned, we had so far more problems with missing
replies on [EMAIL PROTECTE
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
...
How to render and update the _incubator_ site is here
Improved docs, should be better now:
http://incubator.apache.org/howtoparticipate.html
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 05:46 AM, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
...
In any case, the Mentors are on the PMC, so the PMC responsiveness
would increase with more Mentors that are active on the projects being
there.
Am I on the incubator PMC? I'm now assi
27;s evident enough IMO.
Does it have to be formally done? There can be a single "Mentor" with
others involved and helping out.
It does, as these Mentors would all be on the Incubator PMC, and all
participate as Mentors in full.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTEC
Stephen McConnell wrote:
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
...
If the accountable person fails, what can we do? Nothing.
>
I think the accountable individual is an important criteria!
If the accountable person fails
We have to make it so that he does not fail. This proposal is based on
the fact t
://incubator.apache.org/projects/juddi.html
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains
Berin Lautenbach wrote:
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
Berin Lautenbach wrote:
Nicola,
I suppose the only slight reservation would be who is accountable?
The old "Fred Bloggs is looking after that" can kick in. I think the
Incubator PMC also wants to be able to hold people accou
so, but it's their decision; what I have linked to is the baseline.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten,
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
-
-
To unsu
B. W. Fitzpatrick wrote:
Umm, what are you doing and why?
-Fitz, completely confused
Sorry, I thought it was your wish. It does not mean that you are off the
PMC. I'll revert and leave it to you eventually. Sorry :-/
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
dvise, as I am trying to get the Directory project STATUS setup.
We need to sort this out first IMHO. Let's finish a new version of the
status file, and start using that for the Directory project.
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?NewProjectSTATUSTemplate
--
Nicola K
ence to what may prove it (for some action items)
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussio
is is exactly
why we have the Incubator.
2 - Hivemind has not applied to incubation, as it could have done.
If it would have done so, it would have been treated in exactly
the same way.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta m
sue a non-issue?
Ideas?
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code re
Leo Simons wrote:
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
...
2 - every project has this URL space where to publish the site:
http://incubator.apache.org/projectname
+1 (or under the wings of their TLP if they wish)
Actually this is the point. I tend to think that they should publish the
site here always
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
Leo Simons wrote:
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
2 - every project has this URL space where to publish the site:
http://incubator.apache.org/projectname
+1 (or under the wings of their TLP if they wish)
Actually this is the point. I tend to think
Leo Simons wrote:
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
What do you think?
+1 to redundancy. -0 on making it an 'absolute' requirement.
Of course.
1 Mentor is a requirement.
>1 Mentor is a *strong* suggestion.
We need to make sure we ourselves don't get so completely
lost in figuring out
use of commit (the above url explains
why).
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get
changing, and I'm confident that in the future the reasons of these
discussions will be more clear to all.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code re
ed (I don't think so, but who who knows ;-) or more
probably needs to add logo definitions, the script in in the committers
CVS under apachelogos/ (projects.xml file).
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get
Michael Wechner wrote:
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
Andreas Kuckartz wrote:
I have stopped reading the Apache Incubator mailing list some time
ago due
to such debates.
If you think that it is important to create new senseless rules for new
projects - do so. But please do not create new useless
Steven Noels wrote:
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
For now, just change the project logo with the incubator one
http://cvs.apache.org/~nicolaken/whiteboard/apachelogos/ and decide
what Lenya wants to do.
Why the fuzz about the logos? I think projects should be allowed to list
themselves under the
o too BTW.
[1] http://incubator.apache.org/howtoparticipate.html#Mailing+lists
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotte
:
-
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
The Incubator should try to minimize cross-votes, as they have shown
in practice to be very confusing and not productive.
...
I don't like this Mentor+Lenya+IncubatorPMC double vote either. The
alternative is to have all Lenya committers o
incubating project
wants.
So the only way out of this catch22 is that all project committers are
PMC members (and hence the core-group proposal). :-)
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent
over Apache. Finally we are all
discussing on these things and getting somewhere, and I'm positive that
things will soon change. :-)
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get for
they could run such a vote and
get it past the majority of incubator members, then they no longer
need to be incubated.
This is a possibility, that is ok for me.
Another possibility would be to define in the rules that the incubating
project cannot voe itself out.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi
Leo Simons wrote:
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
Committers could be given commit access long before having project
member status, and would thus be able to commit but not vote. This
makes it possible to keep a high bar for membership of the project but
a lower bar for committing.
Is this
:
* incubator
* incubator-site
This means that they can partecipate by updating the status
document and publishing their site when needed.
If there are problems committing, please tell me and I'll fix them.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROT
(5) identify apache sponsoring individual
Nicola Ken Barozzi ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions ge
rican. I had already decided to stop giving fancy names to
things to stop this happening, so I simply did repo-sitory->repo, but
it's still not working ;-)
Then I'd call it Ruper for now, which is the name of the initially
proposed codebase, where Ruper = resourc
apache.org/projects/ftpserver
|
v
http://incubator.apache.org/ftpserver
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just co
Finally I have finished the new draft for a project incubation status
page that should be more workable.
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/NewProjectStatusTemplate
Comments, suggestions, blah blah blah welcome.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant
t. Can you do a real one for the Directory project,
and we'll see how that looks?
I was hoping to hear this :-)
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions ge
ommitters would probably
be more than the prospected ones.
Till now we have (except Roy's -1 about the name):
dims +1
noel +1
Other votes? Are all PMC members on the general list?
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
Conor MacNeill wrote:
hi Greg,
Maybe it would be a good idea to forward this or somethign similar to the
committers list. I'd say there is a number of a committers who are not
aware of these legal issues.
Whaddayareckon?
Add members to it too, please.
--
Nicola Ken Ba
need updating (the code), but the new Incubator
Wiki looks right.
Thanks guys, really appreciated :-)
I've already started using it, and the changes are now sent to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discu
e the issue becomes bigger and
bigger. Personally, I don't see any issue.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussio
eater detail, to sign up to the CVS diffs
of the incubator site to be notified of changes in the incubation status
of Ruper.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code re
MC who gets to name this project - and hold them
accountable for their decision.
We are not deciding on the name but on the need or not to have a name
change. In case for a name change, this will surely be the case.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- ve
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
Aaron Bannert wrote:
The Geronimo folks are talking about making logos and there seems to
be a desire to have official signoff on the name. Please vote on one
of the following choices:
[ ] - Let them keep "Geronimo" as the official name.
[ ] - Punt th
ne.
On to problem solving...
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just co
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