Relevant?
https://dl.acm.org/doi/10./2431518.2431951
---
Frank Wimberly
My memoir:
https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly
My scientific publications:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2
Phone (505) 670-9918
On Fri, Jan 17, 2020, 9:37 A
Re: the use of a special term like "artifact" or "explanandum", I agree
completely. "Model" is as good as any.
Re: the usefulness of obtuse models - I did give a description of how obtuse
(indeed, totally opaque) models can be useful for science. It's possible you
didn't receive that post. So,
Glen,
I mean... assuming I know what you mean by "obtuse"... which I'm not sure
of... an "obtuse model" could be useful for many, many things... but the
more obtuse it is, the less one can science with it... so it is not useful
regarding where the future chapter of that book are headed. I would rea
[sigh] Fine. We can change what I wrote from:
"artifact = model absent the usage context"
to
"artifact = model in a non-modeling context"
The toy train isn't a useful example for this distinction. But a wooden sphere
as a model for, say, a baseball, *is* a useful example. In the "sphere mod
AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] description - explanation - metaphor - model - and reply
Nick: Oh no, you've morphed Glen and myself into an interchangeable entity!
You must be flying at high altitude!
On 1/16/20, 8:59 AM, "Friam on
<https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/>
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
From: Friam On Behalf Of Prof David West
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2020 1:39 AM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] description - explanation - metaphor - model - and reply
Nick,
Not sophmoric smarmi
Friam On Behalf Of u?l? ?
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 1:52 PM
To: FriAM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] description - explanation - metaphor - model - and
reply
It would be easier if you would use a word like "artifact" or somesuch when
you talk about the model abse
--
From: Friam On Behalf Of u?l? ?
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 1:52 PM
To: FriAM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] description - explanation - metaphor - model - and reply
It would be easier if you would use a word like "artifact" or somesuch when you
talk about the model absent it's co
ck
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam *On Behalf Of *Eric Charles
> *Sent:* Wedne
m:* Friam *On Behalf Of *Eric Charles
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 15, 2020 1:27 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] description - explanation - metaphor - model - and
> reply
>
> There is an interesting issue that often comes
nicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
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> *From:* Friam *On Behalf Of *Eric Charles
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 15, 2020 1:27 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subje
It would be easier if you would use a word like "artifact" or somesuch when you
talk about the model absent it's contextual analogies. E.g. some yahoo back 10k
years ago draws a picture and some teenage spelunker comes upon it in 2020.
That picture is better described as "artifact" than "picture
From: Friam On Behalf Of Eric Charles
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 1:27 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] description - explanation - metaphor - model - and reply
There is an interesting issue that often comes up in these contexts, in wh
To be clear I did NOT assert that a model means something on its own. Nor did I
ask what the model intends. I do see a risk that others might go in that
direction, though.
In fact, I agree completely that models are only models by way of analogy. I'd
also claim that referents can be models of t
There is an interesting issue that often comes up in these contexts, in
which someone asserts that the models mean something all on their own. If
it is someone who has picked up our language, they might, for example,
ask "What does the model intend? The Model, itself? "
Glen does this by saying
Did Epstein ever respond to your & Derr's response paper?
Well, there are 2 ways I know of that they can help you understand a referent.
There may be more.
1) Parallax
2) Expressibility
If I have 1 totally opaque model of a referent, I'm limited to (2 -
Expressibility), establishing what the m
: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 11:14 AM
To: FriAM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] description - explanation - metaphor - model - and reply
Did Epstein ever respond to your criticism?
For what little it's worth, I disagree with your lesson. Obtuse models can be
very useful. In fact, there's good
Did Epstein ever respond to your criticism?
For what little it's worth, I disagree with your lesson. Obtuse models can be
very useful. In fact, there's good reason to believe you will *never* actually
understand how your model works, any more than you'll ever understand how that
model's referen
2020 6:10 AM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] description - explanation - metaphor - model - and reply
Eric and Nick,
Two more references for MacCormac
[MacCormac 76] MacCormac, Earl R., Metaphor and Myth in
Science and Religion, Durham, N. Car.: Duke University
uch a response as
>> Eric provided.
>>
>> Hope now that the light is coming back Amsterdam is perhaps not quite so
>> gloomy.
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
>>
>> Nicholas Thompson
>> Emeritus Pr
niversity
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam *On Behalf Of *Eric Charles
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 12, 2020 8:41 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> *Subject:* [FRIAM] description -
m: Friam On Behalf Of Eric Charles
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2020 8:41 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: [FRIAM] description - explanation - metaphor - model - and reply
[Eric] A much belated larded reply to David's generous comment regarding the
descri
[Eric] A much belated larded reply to David's generous comment regarding
the description-explanation issue.
[David] Lacking the wit tore- weave the argument that has unraveled into
several threads and posts; an attempt to begin afresh from one of the
points of origin - the Introduction to a
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/y4bkJTtG3s5d6v36k/stupidity-and-dishonesty-explain-each-other-away
I can't help but hope there are other causes for being wrong. 8^) For example,
in a Kierkegaardian "throw down with your best guess" sense, e.g. the champions
like Krugman, when their simplificatio
Schadenfreude. Sad- happiness, I think. Don't forget the final "e".
---
Frank Wimberly
My memoir:
https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly
My scientific publications:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2
Phone (505) 670-9918
On Fri, Dec 27, 2
Glen -
Well found. I am digging into it now. Thanks to both you and Eric S.
for this acute but interesting/relevant bend to the thread at hand.
A fascinating twist in our "Climate Complexity Summit" in Stockholm
earlier this month (thanks Merle for instigating/organizing) was what
felt to me
s. I don’t
> know why I am giving way of football metaphors today.
>
>
>
> Larding below.
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>
> Thanks Glen,
>
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>
> Nick
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> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Cla
Message-
From: Friam On Behalf Of u?l? ?
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2019 4:43 PM
To: FriAM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] description - explanation - metaphor - model
I don't know what you mean by "base" or "foundational". But I suspect there are
plenty of postmodernists who *
I'm sure I've met Rescher at Pitt. In the mid-sixties (I think) most of
Yale's philosophy department moved en masse to Pitt resulting in it's being
ranked second to Harvard in the Carter Study q.v.
---
Frank Wimberly
My memoir:
https://www.amazon.com/author/frank
Heh... ask and ye shall receive!
https://fewd.univie.ac.at/fileadmin/user_upload/inst_ethik_wiss_dialog/Rescher__Nicholas__2008_Moral_Objectivity.pdf
Rescher, seemingly a Peircian pragmatist, goes through a hypothetical in an
attempt to argue that for a moral principle to be objective, the commu
I don't know what you mean by "base" or "foundational". But I suspect there are
plenty of postmodernists who *allow* for a truth of the matter. They simply
don't think such truth is directly accessible, which I *thought* postmodernism
held in common with both pragmatism and pragmaticism. Doesn't
t;
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
Clark University
thompnicks...@gmail.com
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
-Original Message-
From: Friam On Behalf Of Eric Smith
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2019 11:33 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] description - explanation
Awesome! I love it when the thread forks but so clearly maintains its pre-fork
core.
The pragmatism of truth-flexible power analytics is revealed, perhaps, in
Krugman's "taking sides". It's clear that partisanship (think Pelosi) need not
involve a total loss of non-partisan credibility. Some of
In spite of this review, I still agree with Krugman.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/01/review-paul-krugman-arguing-with-zombies/603052/
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 26, 2019, at 9:25 AM, uǝlƃ ☣ wrote:
And this is one of the reasons postmodern rhetoric is more pragmatic than
I am relieved you brought up the Truth/Power bundling, Glen, because I wanted
to but was too much of a coward to do it.
There is a style of speech that I hear often, which goes something like “It
doesn’t matter what so-and-so says, or thinks he means. He is just claiming he
owns truth, but I k
And this is one of the reasons postmodern rhetoric is more pragmatic than
modern rhetoric, because it shifts the concern away from Truth and toward
Power. It's nothing more nor less than the standard gumshoe technique of
following the money. If you want to know why some yahoo said what he said,
mpson
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
> Clark University
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam On Behalf Of Steven A Smith
> Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2019 11:09 AM
> To: f
friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] description - explanation - metaphor - model
Dave (et al) -
I haven't had the bandwidth/focus to follow this line of discussion closely nor
well, much less stick my fat foot in the middle of it, however your
synopsis/redux/refactor here is very well pr
Dave (et al) -
I haven't had the bandwidth/focus to follow this line of discussion
closely nor well, much less stick my fat foot in the middle of it,
however your synopsis/redux/refactor here is very well presented and
while I have some pause with some of your assertions/conclusions,
overall rings
"Absent a "true" description at its root, a theory becomes a Jenga tower of
speculation"
Ah, I see you've been to an American Psychological Association conference!
That aside... ;- ) thank you for this excellent critique! I will
endeavor to do it justice in reply when I get to a real compute
Bravo, Dave.
---
Frank Wimberly
My memoir:
https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly
My scientific publications:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2
Phone (505) 670-9918
On Tue, Dec 24, 2019, 5:26 AM Prof David West wrote:
> Lacking the wit
Lacking the wit tore- weave the argument that has unraveled into several
threads and posts; an attempt to begin afresh from one of the points of origin
- the Introduction to a book by Nick and Eric.
First a common ascription: " A description is understood as a simple statement
of a fact, where
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