Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

Jaromil, >we struggle to have no systemd at all in Devuan, >In the alpha releases there is *no systemd daemon running* Thanks for clearing that up! Linux O'Beardly @LinuxOBeardly http://o.beard.ly On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 3:21 PM, Jaromil wrote: > On Mon, 23 Mar 2015, Nuno Magalhães wrote: >

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On Tue, 24 Mar 2015, Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 04:47:32PM -0700, Go Linux wrote: > > > > A link to Revolution OS was recently posted on irc. I had never > > seen it before. It seems that the cycle has come full circle and now > > Devuan is going back to the future and reinven

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 04:47:32PM -0700, Go Linux wrote: > > A link to Revolution OS was recently posted on irc. I had never > seen it before. It seems that the cycle has come full circle and now > Devuan is going back to the future and reinventing the wheel all over > again. Only this time t

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

Le 23/03/2015 20:10, Nuno Magalhães a écrit : On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 6:59 PM, Mark R. White wrote: > >Just to be clear: I've seen a lot of cross talk about the possibility of >systemd being put into Devuan via a sandbox or even having the systemd API >written in. Is it safe to assume that go

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On Mon, 3/23/15, KatolaZ wrote: Subject: Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet To: "Jaromil" Cc: dng@lists.dyne.org Date: Monday, March 23, 2015, 2:22 PM On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 07:44:30PM +0100, Jaromil wrote: [cut] > > I think this is unacceptable un

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

> GCC was deliberately making things interdepend on each other, even > without technical reasons, simply to prevent commercial entities to > replace the e.g. front-end of the compiler with some proprietary code > and then have that use the GPL backend. This would enable a new, > proprietary languag

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 5:48 AM, wrote: > On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 2:40 AM, Jude Nelson - jud...@gmail.com > wrote: >>> The only way not to be forcing anybody is to stick with the least >>> common denominator for everything. That flat out stops progress. >> >> This is simply not true. A key hall

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 07:44:30PM +0100, Jaromil wrote: [cut] > > I think this is unacceptable under so many ways... some of which I've > tried to explain. I'm also !flabbergasted! to see the discussion averted > into the AST for GCC debacle with a touch of RMS bashing. Either someone > is real

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On Mon, 23 Mar 2015, Nuno Magalhães wrote: > On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 6:59 PM, Mark R. White > wrote: > > > > Just to be clear: I've seen a lot of cross talk about the > > possibility of systemd being put into Devuan via a sandbox or even > > having the systemd API written in. Is it safe to assum

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 6:59 PM, Mark R. White wrote: > > Just to be clear: I've seen a lot of cross talk about the possibility of > systemd being put into Devuan via a sandbox or even having the systemd API > written in. Is it safe to assume that going forward that there will be no > systemd in

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

>On these regards Stefano wrote "troll as action != troll as a person" >https://twitter.com/jaromil/status/579594919767064576 so he still >considers the action of asking a systemd question to RMS to be trolling >I think this is unacceptable u

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On Mon, 23 Mar 2015, Nate Bargmann wrote: > * On 2015 22 Mar 22:09 -0500, Peter Olson wrote: > > > On March 22, 2015 at 6:29 AM Jaromil wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, 21 Mar 2015, Peter Olson wrote: > > > > > > > RMS didn't call me a troll, he answered the question. Somebody else > > > > took it u

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

* On 2015 22 Mar 22:09 -0500, Peter Olson wrote: > > On March 22, 2015 at 6:29 AM Jaromil wrote: > > > > On Sat, 21 Mar 2015, Peter Olson wrote: > > > > > RMS didn't call me a troll, he answered the question. Somebody else > > > took it upon himself to refer to the question as trolling. I have

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 01:04:43PM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote: [cut] > > >... > > > > https://lwn.net/Articles/629259/ covers the most recent flare-up when > > somebody wanted to make the AST of GCC accessible. > > There's a good quote in the comments to this article: > > "We reject kings, pr

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 12:17:07PM +0100, devuan...@spamgourmet.net wrote: > > GCC was deliberately making things interdepend on each other, even > without technical reasons, simply to prevent commercial entities to > replace the e.g. front-end of the compiler with some proprietary code > and then

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

> https://lwn.net/Articles/629259/ covers the most recent flare-up when > somebody wanted to make the AST of GCC accessible. > > > This is not the first post in which this spamgourmet account is > > spreading FUD. We may need to react to this beyond argumenting. > > I don't see anything I said on t

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On Mon, 23 Mar 2015, devuan...@spamgourmet.net wrote: > I did argue for some of things I think are sensible, just like > everybody else here. All of them can be implemented _without_ systemd > (and I have or had them running that way). Yes, one of the ideas I > like was first proposed by Lennart, b

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 11:18 AM, Jaromil - jaro...@dyne.org wrote: > On Mon, 23 Mar 2015, KatolaZ wrote: >> This sounds strange and new at the same time, since GCC was indeed >> designed to be portable and ported to several architectures since from >> the beginning. Do you have any quote by RMS o

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On Mon, 23 Mar 2015, KatolaZ wrote: > On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 10:39:11PM +0100, devuan...@spamgourmet.net wrote: > > RMS admits that he wrote GCC as an interdependent hairball, simply to > > make it impossible to reuse parts of it in commercial applications. So > > I doubt that RMS will end up con

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 10:39:11PM +0100, devuan...@spamgourmet.net wrote: > > I think everyone is in agreement that they fulfill the letter of the > > license. The spirit may be lacking especially in regards to access. > > Being an enormous, interdependent hairball simply puts the code out of > >

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 11:08:58PM +0200, Lars Noodén wrote: > On 22.03.2015 22:00, KatolaZ wrote: > > Well, we might all agree on despising the systemd-nonsense on a > > technical level, but nobody can say it's not free software without > > being considered a fool. The systemd-nonsense is distribu

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

> On March 22, 2015 at 6:29 AM Jaromil wrote: > > On Sat, 21 Mar 2015, Peter Olson wrote: > > > RMS didn't call me a troll, he answered the question. Somebody else > > took it upon himself to refer to the question as trolling. I haven't > > decided yet whether to speak to that person tomorrow

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

Would it be possible to avoid offensive characterization of people who do not think along the same lines? Would it be possible to avoid gender-biased characterization of people who are participating in this list? Thank you == hk ___ Dng mailing list Dn

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

> I think everyone is in agreement that they fulfill the letter of the > license. The spirit may be lacking especially in regards to access. > Being an enormous, interdependent hairball simply puts the code out of > reach for all practical purposes as well as restricting use. Again, > that's spir

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On 22.03.2015 22:00, KatolaZ wrote: > Well, we might all agree on despising the systemd-nonsense on a > technical level, but nobody can say it's not free software without > being considered a fool. The systemd-nonsense is distributed with a > free software license, therefore it *is* free software..

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 07:09:50PM +0200, Lars Noodén wrote: > On 21.03.2015 18:51, Linuxito wrote: > > Great reading. I knew RMS would answer something like that to that > > question, if it's licensed under GPL, it's free software, period. > > ( Actually it's LGPL [1] but ... ) > > I expect that

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 11:29:58 +0100 Jaromil wrote: > But at the very least the episode is that of public denigration for > somoene asking a question, made worse by the fact it is operated by a > renown public figure and leader. This just sets an example for all the > other guys present, plus gives

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On Sun 22 March 2015 11:29:54 devuan...@spamgourmet.net wrote: > Considering that the blog post is all about putting an idea up for > discussion I really do not see how that can be undiscussed and > unsolicited. How should you get a discussion started on the internet? Considering how I clearly sta

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 2:40 AM, Jude Nelson - jud...@gmail.com wrote: >> The only way not to be forcing anybody is to stick with the least >> common denominator for everything. That flat out stops progress. > > This is simply not true. A key hallmark of good application design is to > keep the b

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 2:34 AM, Joerg Reisenweber - reisenwe...@web.de wrote: > From > *"root fs: any you like, even MSDOS (with some limitations)" * > to an undiscussed unsolicited > *"root fs: btrfs mandatory"* > is *not* the kind of "progress" I want to see happen, ever. The interesting prope

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On Sat, 21 Mar 2015, Peter Olson wrote: > > On March 21, 2015 at 6:36 PM Robert Storey > > wrote: > > > > Hopefully, it's just a rumor, though it sounds real. > > > > Indeed, I've been wondering why RMS hasn't commented on systemd long > > ago when it became obvious that it would effectively du

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 06:36:37 +0800 Robert Storey wrote: > Hopefully, it's just a rumor, though it sounds real. > > Indeed, I've been wondering why RMS hasn't commented on systemd long > ago when it became obvious that it would effectively dump his beloved > Hurd project into the trash can. If he

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

> On March 21, 2015 at 6:36 PM Robert Storey wrote: > > Hopefully, it's just a rumor, though it sounds real. > > Indeed, I've been wondering why RMS hasn't commented on systemd long ago > when it became obvious that it would effectively dump his beloved Hurd > project into the trash can. If he r

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

> The only way not to be forcing anybody is to stick with the least > common denominator for everything. That flat out stops progress. This is simply not true. A key hallmark of good application design is to keep the business logic as decoupled as possible from the layers beneath it, thereby enab

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

> On March 21, 2015 at 11:34 AM Jaromil wrote: > > re all, > > perhaps interesting to perceive the atmosphere, no trolling intended and > please > consider we shall not fight, rather seek undersanding and claim respect and > the > right to have different opinions than "the majority". > > At Lib

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On Sun 22 March 2015 01:42:33 devuan...@spamgourmet.net wrote: > On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 1:23 AM, Joerg Reisenweber - > reisenwe...@web.de > > wrote: > > Besides me for one not liking the idea to *get* *forced* to use btrfs for > > /, > The only way not to be forcing anybody is to stick with the

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 1:23 AM, Joerg Reisenweber - reisenwe...@web.de wrote: > Besides me for one not liking the idea to *get* *forced* to use btrfs for /, The only way not to be forcing anybody is to stick with the least common denominator for everything. That flat out stops progress. > my li

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On Sun 22 March 2015 01:15:18 devuan...@spamgourmet.net wrote: > Hi Jörg, > > I am going to get beaten for this, but that proposal is actually > brilliant! Well, brilliant if you are not bothered by btrfs that is:-) > But that is what I got backups for. Besides me for one not liking the idea to *

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

Hi Jörg, I am going to get beaten for this, but that proposal is actually brilliant! Well, brilliant if you are not bothered by btrfs that is:-) But that is what I got backups for. While I do not care about all the sandboxing that got mixed into this, the rest got me really thinking about my setu

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On Sun 22 March 2015 00:40:45 Joerg Reisenweber wrote: > kills the Linux FOSS ecosystem now, This time read ecosystem as "economic system". The "ecologic system" aka "community" is probably still fine. RH just establishes the new better economic system: http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

>> [...all...] Sounds familiar? It's because developing and earning money >> on support only will always lead to such pathologies. [...] Full ACK Internet and downloading complete distros (for free) kills the Linux FOSS ecosystem now, like downloading mp3 music did kill the music ecosystem. Suse

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

RMS stance is understandable, because he is also responsible for the current situation. He failed to predict it, and his dream is now turning into another Animal Farm, where some developers are becoming more equal than others (it's an open question if there was a better strategy possible when GPL w

[Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

Hopefully, it's just a rumor, though it sounds real. Indeed, I've been wondering why RMS hasn't commented on systemd long ago when it became obvious that it would effectively dump his beloved Hurd project into the trash can. If he really called someone a "troll" for asking his opinion of systemd,

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On 21.03.2015 18:51, Linuxito wrote: > Great reading. I knew RMS would answer something like that to that > question, if it's licensed under GPL, it's free software, period. ( Actually it's LGPL [1] but ... ) I expect that he is thinking about it and will be thinking about it a while longer befor

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

Great reading. I knew RMS would answer something like that to that question, if it's licensed under GPL, it's free software, period. On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 12:41 PM, Nextime wrote: > On March 21, 2015 3:34:28 PM WET, Jaromil wrote: > > > >re all, > > > >perhaps interesting to perceive the atmo

Re: [Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

On March 21, 2015 3:34:28 PM WET, Jaromil wrote: > >re all, > >perhaps interesting to perceive the atmosphere, no trolling intended >and please >consider we shall not fight, rather seek undersanding and claim respect >and the >right to have different opinions than "the majority". > >At Libreplanet

[Dng] rumors on RMS about systemd at libreplanet

re all, perhaps interesting to perceive the atmosphere, no trolling intended and please consider we shall not fight, rather seek undersanding and claim respect and the right to have different opinions than "the majority". At Libreplanet (the GNU/FSF conference) today someone (who?? thanks for th