Hey all,
So here's a proposal for the Debian Maintainers idea that's been floating
around for some time now [0]. I've drafted it while lying in bed in
the Budget Backpackers before wandering up to debconf, so it's just my
take on things, and could probably do with some improvements. As nobody
else
I second the proposal below.
It looks like a sensible policy and anyway the policy can evolve over
time. The team handling the keyring should be able to adjust it as we
discover how to best handle this new class of contributors.
Cheers,
On Thu, 21 Jun 2007, Anthony Towns wrote:
> Debian Ma
On Thu, 21 Jun 2007, Anthony Towns wrote:
> 1) A new keyring will be created, called the "Debian maintainers keyring".
>It will be initially maintained in alioth subversion using the jetring
>tool, with commit priveleges initially assigned to:
>
> * the Debian Account Managers (Joerg
Seconded.
also sprach Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007.06.21.1450 +0100]:
> Hey all,
>
> So here's a proposal for the Debian Maintainers idea that's been floating
> around for some time now [0]. I've drafted it while lying in bed in
> the Budget Backpackers before wandering up to debconf,
On 21.06.2007 15:50 schrieb Anthony Towns:
> Hey all,
>
> So here's a proposal for the Debian Maintainers idea that's been floating
> around for some time now [0]. I've drafted it while lying in bed in
> the Budget Backpackers before wandering up to debconf, so it's just my
> take on things, and c
Il giorno gio, 21/06/2007 alle 17.37 +0200, Bastian Venthur ha scritto:
>
> So, why such a complicated GR introducing second class DDs? Just grant a
> few more rights to our NMs and try to improve the NM process in the long
> run and everybody will be happy.
Esquisitely true.
--
Federico Di Gr
Anthony Towns wrote:
> 1) A new keyring will be created, called the "Debian maintainers keyring".
>It will be initially maintained in alioth subversion using the jetring
>tool, with commit priveleges initially assigned to:
FWIW, I'm uncomfortable with the idea of a GR that specifies what t
On Thu, 21 Jun 2007, Federico Di Gregorio wrote:
> Il giorno gio, 21/06/2007 alle 17.37 +0200, Bastian Venthur ha scritto:
> >
> > So, why such a complicated GR introducing second class DDs? Just grant a
> > few more rights to our NMs and try to improve the NM process in the long
> > run and every
On Thu, 21 Jun 2007, Joey Hess wrote:
> Anthony Towns wrote:
> > 1) A new keyring will be created, called the "Debian maintainers keyring".
> >It will be initially maintained in alioth subversion using the jetring
> >tool, with commit priveleges initially assigned to:
>
> FWIW, I'm uncomfo
Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007, Federico Di Gregorio wrote:
>> Il giorno gio, 21/06/2007 alle 17.37 +0200, Bastian Venthur ha scritto:
>>> So, why such a complicated GR introducing second class DDs? Just grant a
>>> few more rights to our NMs and try to improve the NM process in the l
Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> That's precisely why it's written "initially" twice in that sentence.
"initially" is ambiguous.
Also, I don't want a precident of voting on what tools developers must
use. We already have enough bad GR precidents. :-P
--
see shy jo
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On Thu, 21 Jun 2007, Bastian Venthur wrote:
> > In short, this DM status is complementary to NM. It's not working around
> > any deficiency in the NM process.
>
> I really doubt that. If I read Anthony's links he have in his GR
> proposal, it all sounds very much like a workaround for the problems
Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> 1/ I know people who want to maintain package but don't want to be DD.
>
> The time involvement required to be DD is far bigger to the one required
> to be able to maintain properly a single package. And I don't want to
> lower the barrier to become DD because the role of
On Thu, Jun 21, 2007 at 02:50:59PM +0100, Anthony Towns wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> So here's a proposal for the Debian Maintainers idea that's been floating
> around for some time now [0]. I've drafted it while lying in bed in
> the Budget Backpackers before wandering up to debconf, so it's just my
> t
Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007, Bastian Venthur wrote:
>>> In short, this DM status is complementary to NM. It's not working around
>>> any deficiency in the NM process.
>> I really doubt that. If I read Anthony's links he have in his GR
>> proposal, it all sounds very much like a wor
On Thu, 21 Jun 2007, Joey Schulze wrote:
> Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> > 1/ I know people who want to maintain package but don't want to be DD.
> >
> > The time involvement required to be DD is far bigger to the one required
> > to be able to maintain properly a single package. And I don't want to
>
On Thursday 21 June 2007 16:50, Anthony Towns wrote:
> * multiple Debian developers have requested the individual's
> removal for non-spurious reasons; eg, due to problematic
> uploads, unfixed bugs, or being unreasonably difficult to
> work with.
This by itself is to
Pierre Habouzit wrote:
> Another question I have is that basically, I don't grok why it's
> harder to give DM's uploads rights, than NM's an account.
DD implies an account on ~20 machines. Having only upload rights
does not imply this and the outcome of a fuckup in a .deb will
only cause an inc
On Thu, 21 Jun 2007, Bastian Venthur wrote:
> I agree that there might be a few people who don't want to be a DD but a
> DM although I really can't understand why, since both classes are almost
> identical (day to day work wise) and the "extra" D almost comes for free
> if you're already a DM: just
Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> > > The time involvement required to be DD is far bigger to the one required
> > > to be able to maintain properly a single package. And I don't want to
> > > lower the barrier to become DD because the role of DD are critical in
> > > the success of Debian (while the role a
Konstantinos Margaritis wrote:
> > * multiple Debian developers have requested the individual's
> > removal for non-spurious reasons; eg, due to problematic
> > uploads, unfixed bugs, or being unreasonably difficult to
> > work with.
> Also, expect many errors at least on the
Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> > > If you want to improve the NM process, fine, the NM team awaits your help.
> > > But don't block other initiatives to improve Debian for reasons which
> > > are dubious.
> >
> > So my reasons are dubious? I guess I should let you vote for me and just
> > sign the ballo
On Thu, Jun 21, 2007 at 07:39:39PM +0200, Joey Schulze wrote:
> Pierre Habouzit wrote:
> > Another question I have is that basically, I don't grok why it's
> > harder to give DM's uploads rights, than NM's an account.
>
> DD implies an account on ~20 machines. Having only upload rights
> does n
On Thu, Jun 21, 2007 at 05:57:36PM +0100, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> If you want to improve the NM process, fine, the NM team awaits your help..
> But don't block other initiatives to improve Debian for reasons which
> are dubious.
That's very harsh, especially since either DM tries to address the
On Thu, 21 Jun 2007, Joey Schulze wrote:
> Therefore I assume that the answer would be "zero", i.e. it's
> the same time involvement required to maintain a package for
> both a DD and a DM.
Sure. A given task is the same work for everybody (or almost).
> 1 It's a one time issue even if the tim
On Thu, 21 Jun 2007, Bastian Venthur wrote:
> Sorry, but why don't we improve our New Maintainer (NM) process
> instead of adding yet another layer of bureaucracy?
This is an attempt to improve the NM process, actually. [The goal of
the NM process is to get people in a position so that they are
Hi,
On Thu, 21 Jun 2007, Joey Schulze wrote:
> > So I suggest you to not stand up against this proposition if you're not
> > convinced that this would negatively impact Debian. It might be that it
> > doesn't have as much success as I expect, but then we haven't lost much by
> > tring it out.
>
>
On Thu, Jun 21, 2007 at 02:50:59PM +0100, Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> 2) The initial policy for an individual to be included in the keyring
>will be:
>
> * that the applicant acknowledges Debian's social contract,
> free software guidelines, and machine usage pol
Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> > 1 It's a one time issue even if the time period involved can be quite
> > long and
>
> A package maintainer that can't upload during one or two years and who has
> to chase sponsors indefinitely will end up demotivated and won't finish his
> NM process. (It's not
On Thu, Jun 21, 2007 at 05:52:35PM +0100, Joey Hess wrote:
> Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> > That's precisely why it's written "initially" twice in that sentence.
> "initially" is ambiguous.
Err, it doesn't seem ambiguous to me: it'll start this way and may change
later... If you'd like to suggest oth
On Thu, Jun 21, 2007 at 06:37:12PM +0200, Bastian Venthur wrote:
> And the main question is is still open: Why do we need this DM status?
> Which problem does it solve, if not the ones with our NM process?
The NM process is about making new DDs -- who participate fully in
the project, and understa
* Anthony Towns ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [070621 16:03]:
> 1) A new keyring will be created, called the "Debian maintainers keyring".
>It will be initially maintained in alioth subversion using the jetring
>tool, with commit priveleges initially assigned to:
>
> * the Debian Account Manag
Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...]
> The Debian Project endorses the concept of "Debian Maintainers" with
> limited access, and resolves to
s/resolves to/resolves/ # "resolves to a new keyring will be created"?
> 1) A new keyring will be created, called the "Debian maintainers keyrin
On Thu, 21 Jun 2007, Joey Schulze wrote:
> Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> > A package maintainer that can't upload during one or two years and who has
> > to chase sponsors indefinitely will end up demotivated and won't finish his
> > NM process. (It's not something which is true of everybody, but it's
>
* Anthony Towns:
> 5) The intial policy for the use of the Debian Maintainer keyring with the
>Debian archive will be to accept uploads signed by a key in that keyring
>provided:
>
> * none of the uploaded packages are NEW
>
> * the Maintainer: field of the uploaded .changes fi
Anthony Towns wrote:
> Err, it doesn't seem ambiguous to me: it'll start this way and may change
> later... If you'd like to suggest other wording, you're welcome to...
If it's unambiguous, then the specification of what tools to use is
pointless, since it can change at any time, and so again, I a
Florian Weimer wrote:
> * Anthony Towns:
>
> > 5) The intial policy for the use of the Debian Maintainer keyring with the
> >Debian archive will be to accept uploads signed by a key in that keyring
> >provided:
> >
> > * none of the uploaded packages are NEW
> >
> > * the Maintaine
Joey Schulze wrote:
> The NM process after all is meant to help new maintainers become
> skilled maintainers of packages. If we want to get them maintain
> packages without going through NM we should not create a new stage
> but drop or restructure the NM process. IMHO
The same argument could be
Raphael Hertzog <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...]
> If you want to improve the NM process, fine, the NM team awaits your help.
Is that true? Is the NM team awaiting help to improve the process, or
is it only awaiting help to operate the current process?
Last year, I suggested improving the NM pro
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