Bill Allombert writes ("Re: Why Debian is dying"):
> Le Wed, Apr 09, 2025 at 09:44:31AM +0800, Sean Whitton a écrit :
> > Firstly, the TC cannot overrule delegates. [...]
>
> Without contesting this point, I suggest that the TC could still provide
> a non-binding ne
Le Wed, Apr 09, 2025 at 09:44:31AM +0800, Sean Whitton a écrit :
> Hello,
>
> On Tue 08 Apr 2025 at 01:09pm GMT, Holger Levsen wrote:
>
> > The Technical Committee may:
> >
> > Decide on any matter of technical policy.
> > Decide any technical matter where Developers' jurisdictions overla
Matthias Urlichs writes ("Re: Why Debian is dying"):
> On 09.04.25 03:44, Sean Whitton wrote:
> > But the DPL didn't respond to a single message in the long private
> > thread, despite being CCed on every message.
>
> The question is, did you *ask* him to? E
On Tue, Apr 08, 2025 at 04:46:44PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
>Someone writes:
>> [the TC] seems] to be way more collaborative to me, than - once
>> again - immediatly escalating this to -vote and threatening a GR.
>
>Dear Community Team:
>
>I am getting very fed up of the repeated accusations, by m
Umm …
You and your behaviours effects are worse than those from many of
the people we had to expell in the past.
this constitutes a direct threat
It seems like some people's passion is to find the biggest can of oil
and spread it on fire.
I think you just lack some deduction skills.
IMHO eve
On 09.04.25 16:18, Ian Jackson wrote:
[1] I think quoting from that mail would be quite unhelpful at this
stage. We seem like we may be making progress and I don't want to
unnecessarily dredge up the drama again.
Fair enough, and I tend to agree FWIW.
My interest, at this stage, is more along
"G. Branden Robinson" wrote on 09/04/2025 at
11:55:38+0200:
> Hi Pierre-Elliott,
>
> At 2025-04-09T11:00:37+0200, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
>> Bill Allombert wrote on 07/04/2025 at 10:02:01+0200:
>> >> You and your behaviours effects are worse than those from many of
>> >> the people we had t
On 09.04.25 03:44, Sean Whitton wrote:
But the DPL didn't respond to a single message in the long private
thread, despite being CCed on every message.
The question is, did you *ask* him to? Explicitly?
'Cause if not, sorry but that communication fail is on you, for the most
part. IMHO.
--
-
[CCing Ian on Debian Constitutional drafting question; moving to
-project; please direct any follow-ups there]
Hi Sean,
At 2025-04-09T09:44:31+0800, Sean Whitton wrote:
> On Tue 08 Apr 2025 at 01:09pm GMT, Holger Levsen wrote:
>
> > The Technical Committee may:
> >
> > Decide on any matter of te
Hi Pierre-Elliott,
At 2025-04-09T11:00:37+0200, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
> Bill Allombert wrote on 07/04/2025 at 10:02:01+0200:
> >> You and your behaviours effects are worse than those from many of
> >> the people we had to expell in the past.
> >
> > Joerg,
> >
> > Since you are (also) DAM,
Bill Allombert wrote on 07/04/2025 at 10:02:01+0200:
>> You and your behaviours effects are worse than those from many of the
>> people we had to expell in the past.
>
> Joerg,
>
> Since you are (also) DAM, this constitutes a direct threat which is a
> violation of the CoC.
>
> Cheers,
It seems
On Sat, 2025-04-05 at 12:41 +0200, Daniel Gröber wrote:
> Hi Ian, Hi all,
>
> We all know Debian is [dying], right?
>
> [dying]: https://salsa.debian.org/rafael/debian-contrib-years
>
> Observation 1:
> Young developers don't see Debian as a place where work gets done.
>
> Observation 2:
>
Hello,
On Tue 08 Apr 2025 at 01:09pm GMT, Holger Levsen wrote:
> The Technical Committee may:
>
> Decide on any matter of technical policy.
> Decide any technical matter where Developers' jurisdictions overlap.
> Make a decision when asked to do so.
> Overrule a Developer (require
Someone writes:
> [the TC] seems] to be way more collaborative to me, than - once
> again - immediatly escalating this to -vote and threatening a GR.
Dear Community Team:
I am getting very fed up of the repeated accusations, by multiple
people, that we "immediately escalated" this to -vote.
As w
On 08.04.25 15:09, Holger Levsen wrote:
The Technical Committee may:
[ list ]
Sure. But exactly which of these items affords the power to fix the
"ftpmaster doesn't implement what they said they'd do" problem?
There was no technical disagreement, that was resolved last year. There
was no de
I do not really want to post on this list inside voting period, but:
Am Sun, Apr 06, 2025 at 11:24:15AM +0100 schrieb Ian Jackson:
> We are waiting because the DPL won't authorise an "NMU", despite
What?
If you want more contributions from me, please switch to
some different mailing list.
Thank
On Sun, Apr 06, 2025 at 02:10:27PM +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> Frankly, which other recourse does a DD have, in your opinion, if they think
> a team is obstructing what they see as a valuable contribution to Debian and
> the DPL (who arguably does have the authority to kick the whole FTP team
Le Sat, Apr 05, 2025 at 12:41:22PM +0200, Daniel Gröber a écrit :
> Hi Ian, Hi all,
>
> We all know Debian is [dying], right?
Finally ? I read that every two years since I joined in 2001...
Meanwhile popularity-contest report 30% more bookworm users than users
of previous stable releases at thei
> You and your behaviours effects are worse than those from many of the
> people we had to expell in the past.
Joerg,
Since you are (also) DAM, this constitutes a direct threat which is a
violation of the CoC.
Cheers,
--
Bill.
Imagine a large red swirl here.
Simon Richter writes ("Re: Why Debian is dying (Was: Call for volunteers and GR
draft: tag2upload key installation)"):
> Git is not a packaging tool. There is no way to have a "native"
> git-based packaging workflow.
Certainly there is. We've built it.
Theare ar
Joerg Jaspert writes ("Re: Why Debian is dying (Was: Call for volunteers and GR
draft: tag2upload key installation)"):
> > We are waiting because the DPL won't authorise an "NMU", despite
> > - the team involved being well-known as dysfunctional for many year
On 06.04.25 13:01, Simon Richter wrote:
I can explain the sequence
… which mayyybe you might look at from the perspective of
somebody-new-interested-in-contributing-to-Debian.
1. use 'apt source x' to get the source package
Use dgit. You get a git repo along with it.
Or simply "git clone", f
On 06.04.25 13:21, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
Because you do not think it neccessary by force implies that everyone
has to think so?
Note that we can easily flip that statement. Because in effect, *just*
because you think it's necessary everybody *does* have to think so,
regardless of whether it's
On 17556 March 1977, Ian Jackson wrote:
We aren't waiting because ftpmaster haven't done the work agreed
in 2024, that only they want. That work is *not necessary*.
Because you do not think it neccessary by force implies that everyone
has to think so?
You do not want it. The team that does
Hi,
On 4/5/25 19:41, Daniel Gröber wrote:
I only joined Debian in 2024 and since then one thing has become abundantly
clear to me: it's dying because potential contributors are put off by our
archaic, fragmented and most importantly not natively git-based workflow(s!).
Git is not a packaging
Gianfranco Costamagna writes ("Re: Why Debian is dying (Was: Call for
volunteers and GR draft: tag2upload key installation)"):
> I know after a lot of development, watching the result of the job
> not being live due to missing work on somebody else hands is...
> sad...
It can
Gianfranco Costamagna writes ("Re: Why Debian is dying (Was: Call for
volunteers and GR draft: tag2upload key installation)"):
> The months before a stable release pose a really high pressure on
> ftpmasters workload,
This is so frustrating! I have already explained why th
On 05.04.25 23:37, Brian May wrote:
An added complexity is that sometimes upstream will add non-DFSG
compliant files to their source, and as such we have to repackage the
upstream orig tar.gz file to remove these files.
Maybe it's (finally?) time to re-think most-if-not-all of that.
As in, in
Hello, I don't want to participate in this thread right now, but I just want to
propose a different view of the topic
> We don't know what ftpmaster think should happen next since they
> haven't said. There is no indication that ftpmaster will start the
> implementation work, nor that they are p
Ian Jackson writes:
> The reason there are as many as four there is that we're maintaining a
> downstream patch queue, and maintaining and updating and sharing a
> such a downstream patch queue, with git, is an open research problem.
An added complexity is that sometimes upstream will add non-DF
Daniel Gröber writes ("Why Debian is dying (Was: Call for volunteers and GR
draft: tag2upload key installation)"):
> [much that I agree with snipped]
Thanks.
> # FTP & tag2upload
>
> Ian. The project is bleeding and you're telling me ... we've had the
>
Daniel Gröber writes:
> We all know Debian is [dying], right?
>
> [dying]: https://salsa.debian.org/rafael/debian-contrib-years
this graph says it uses https://contributors.debian.org/source/ which
says salsa.debian.org data was last updated 6 years ago?
Hi Ian, Hi all,
We all know Debian is [dying], right?
[dying]: https://salsa.debian.org/rafael/debian-contrib-years
# Background
I only joined Debian in 2024 and since then one thing has become abundantly
clear to me: it's dying because potential contributors are put off by our
archaic, fragmen
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