Hello,
On Sun 18 Sep 2022 at 05:34PM -07, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Sean Whitton writes:
>> On Mon 19 Sep 2022 at 12:45AM +02, Guillem Jover wrote:
>
>>> So, personally, I'd be happy to fully switch to stanza TBH, because it
>>> seems more specific to our use,
with `The Window Manager Specification
>> Project <https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/wm-spec>`_,
>
> Yes, this looks right to me. Seconded.
Likewise seconded, and applied. Thanks.
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tion about them.
>
> That could be as simple as saying "udebs (...) and source packages that
> produce only udebs do not comply"
Sounds good to me.
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ne. (Additionally, not
sure why this would need to go to debian-devel -- seems like a Policy
team-internal thing.)
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e Policy itself is not
> going to be translated, I think that it can be advantageous if its
> contents can be discussed in simple words in people's native languages.
It may yet be translated! We have the po4a setup :)
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Sean Whitton
all of the
> +requirements discussed here. See the `Debian Installer internals manual
> +<https://d-i.debian.org/doc/internals/ch03.html>`_ for more information
> +about them.
>
> .. [#]
> Informally, the criteria used for inclusion is that the material meet
Seconded and applied, thanks.
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postrm* failed-upgrade *old-version* *new-version*
>
> If this works, installation continues. If not, Error unwind:
>
> @@ -410,7 +410,7 @@ These are the "error unwind" calls listed below.
>
> .. parsed-literal::
>
> - *new-postrm* abort-upgrade *old-version*
> + *new-postrm* abort-upgrade *old-version* *new-version*
>
> If this fails, the old version is left in a "Half-Installed"
> state. If it works, dpkg now calls:
Seconded.
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gt; When it appears in a ``.changes`` file, it lists the names of the binary
> -packages being uploaded, separated by whitespace (not commas).
> +packages being uploaded, separated by whitespace (not commas). If only
> +source packages are being uploaded, this field will not be present.
>
> .. _s-f-Installed-Size:
Seconded.
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uillem and I on it. For me, the recommendation would
> be documenting public sentiment on this topic.
>
> Source: https://trends.debian.net/rulesreqroot_testing-percent.png
Cool. I think that would be fine too.
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no objections to uploading it before then; I just probably won't
> have time personally.
Thanks Holger for pointing this out. I'll cut a release today or
tomorrow.
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Sean Whitton
and gone over the meat of the original
> report. See below.
We're sticking with 'stanza', and in light of that, could you confirm
that the bug is reopened in order to make additional fixes, rather than
back anything else out?
Thanks.
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glish (if I understand
> how the translation machinery works).
>
> That said, we haven't tried to incorporate translation work in a while, so
> some of the machinery has probably rusted and will need repairs.
Yup, please create MRs with translations here:
<https://salsa.debian.org/dbnpolicy/policy-l10n-merge-requests-here>
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Sean Whitton
es in the archive. I count 62
> (ignoring those with an alioth URL):
>
> * 26 on Svn
> * 3 on Cvs
> * 4 on Hg (2 are hg/hg-buildpackage)
> * 39 on bzr (half of these are actually bzr and related packages, which I
> maintain)
This strikes me as a matter for devref not Policy?
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Sean Whitton
quot; -o disappear = "$1" ]; then
>
> note the difference in quoting (one double quote added).
Thanks, but could you file this as a bug?
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ebian-policy'
> package, i am not 100% sure a similar bug did not already exist. However, i
> could not find any existing similar bug.
No problem, thank you for checking!
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ckage contents?
Thanks for filing the patch. As to your question, it's the latter (I'm
not sure whether or not the former is true, but in any case, Policy
contains recommendations in addition to musts and shoulds).
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don't we just fix all those packacges, instead of changing any
documents? Is there anyone who actually wants to introduce new packages
not using git? I'm not so sure.
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gt;
> Things that I think need to be resolved:
>
> [...]
Thank you for these thoughts.
I agree with you about what needs to be done.
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ndation.
Just to note that Debian Policy's definition of these terms is not quite
the same as the RFC process definitions (I know you know this -- just
wanted to note that they're not the most relevant definitions).
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ing command output.
If this was a mistake that maintainers seemed to habitually make, the
former would make sense, but so far I think we have just one or a few
concrete examples, and so the correct thing to do seems to me to be to
add normative language for only the general case.
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Sean Whitton
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Hello,
The information about urgency in this announcement from the release team
should probably be included in the Developer's Reference:
<https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2013/11/msg7.html>
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Sean Whitton
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control: tag -1 +patch
Hello,
On Tue, Aug 02, 2016 at 08:30:26PM -0700, Sean Whitton wrote:
> The information about urgency in this announcement from the release team
> should probably be included in the Developer's Reference:
> <https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce
lopers-reference suggests:
ii doc-base 0.10.7
-- no debconf information
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Sean Whitton
From 26639c8ed362c9e2ace65c0663a0b32876f48479 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Sean Whitton
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 11:34:30 -0700
Subject: [PATCH] add link to "OpenPGP Best Practices"
---
co
added at all by dh, and
> instead the build tool needs to decide if it's building an image where
> tmpfiles snippets need to be ran, and if so pull in the preferred
> alternative.
This is a highly inspecific response, but: aren't things expressed by
dependencies generally less work f
Hello,
On Mon 08 May 2023 at 12:52PM -07, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Sean Whitton writes:
>> On Mon 08 May 2023 at 08:48AM -07, Russ Allbery wrote:
>
>>> In other words, dpkg-divert is primarily for local administrators,
>>> non-Policy-compliant local packages that
ackage" in this sense), but it covers much of the
>> general case.
>
> Would you like me to reword/move the new snippet?
Yes, thank you. I will review the new version.
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Sean Whitton
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maintainers seems like
> a recipe for making it no longer fun to maintain a package.
Yes, let's figure out a standard solution and write it in Policy.
The reasoning may well be applicable to similar things in the future.
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n interface other than my mail client.
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e with the maintainers of all the packages involved. For
example, configuration files used by systemd components should not
be diverted with dpkg-divert or the alternatives system without
agreement between not only the maintainers of the packages that ship
the files, but also the maint
ther message with some wording review.
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Sean Whitton
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t never" is our standard phrasing,
and "must not" is not any normatively weaker than "must never".
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Hello,
On Tue 06 Jun 2023 at 07:56PM -07, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Sean Whitton writes:
>
>> I think what's a bit peculiar here is using "must" for a case where
>> there might be package-specific exceptions. In other cases, Policy uses
>> "should&q
more than two levels
of normative language in Policy. It's simply untrue that all but one of
each of those is optional. Debian's normative landscape is more complex
than that.
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ault-logind virtual packages.
Thank you for reviewing. Do you have a rough idea of how long it would
be until you could confirm that this is viable, and implement it in sid?
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like to prepare that patch, or shall one of Russ or I do so?
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ives system does not know how to apply changes to services when
> updating
> +alternatives, so the resulting behavior would be confusing and unpredictable.
> +Instead, `aliases
> +<https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.unit.html#Description>`_
> +can be used to provide alternative implementations of the same named unit.
> +
> .. _s-maintscriptprompt:
>
> Prompting in maintainer scripts
Seconded.
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Sean Whitton
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val, even if other interested
> people offer to maintain them and provide tested patches.
I'm sympathetic, though, this in itself is not a Policy issue.
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Hello,
On Fri 16 Jun 2023 at 05:57PM +01, Luca Boccassi wrote:
> Is there anything needed from me to make progress on this? Any changes
> required to the last revision posted?
Yes, Russ posted some comments on your most recent revision, I believe.
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Sean Whitton
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Descr
ny individual, but leave them be purely team
> maintained, to do so.
I wanted to do this some years ago, but the MIA team objected. So you'd
need to speak to them first.
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Sean Whitton
a
> decision? That way the matter can be closed one way or the other.
That would be a premature escalation -- if you want to drive this,
please approach the MIA team.
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Sean Whitton
; manually does other work debhelper would automate. Replace it with
> a note that packaging helper frameworks do much of this work.
> ---
> policy/ch-source.rst | 35 +++
> 1 file changed, 3 insertions(+), 32 deletions(-)
LGTM.
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Sean Whitton
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copyright.
I would be in favour of the 25 lines criterion. The main problem with
manipulating d/copyright is only the really long licenses, IME.
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Sean Whitton
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testing of some kind, at
least with screenreaders. But maybe the fact that you've based your
theme on an existing, popular Sphinx theme means this is covered?
Thanks again.
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made several workarounds
> in order to get it work without everything properly
> installed/configured.
This doesn't seem to be enough to ensure that debian.css gets installed
to the .deb. I think we might also need to set html_static_path ?
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here any code changes under consideration in response to this work?
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Sean Whitton
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mechanism in Debian
> policy makes sense though.
When many/most Debian package maintainers need to know about this, as
they do debhelper compat, then we should add it, but until then, perhaps
not.
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sal, here: #915583.
Possibly some of your changes could be applied on top of that?
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only need to keep
> the current setup.
That line is commented out, though. Are you saying it takes on its
default value in that case?
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in how
we all actually write Policy text counts for more than abstract
discussions of best practice.
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natives in a single release, they can still be used to provide
> - flexibility in building the same package across multiple
> - distributions or releases, where a particular dependency is met by
> - differently named packages.
> -
> .. [#]
> The relations ``<`` and ``>`` were previously allowed, but they were
> confusingly defined to mean earlier/later or equal rather than
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Sean Whitton
d to make after feedback from Simon, but I don't think you've
posted an updated patch yet? If you could, I can review and second.
I think what you write in your patch is fair to proponents of
alternative init systems, though it would be good to have explicit
approval from one of them if someone has time. We could post your
updated patch to one of their lists?
Thank you for your efforts on this.
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Sean Whitton
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Hello,
On Thu 15 Feb 2024 at 11:44pm +01, Holger Wansing wrote:
> Sean Whitton wrote:
>> On Fri 29 Dec 2023 at 07:08am +01, Stéphane Blondon wrote:
>>
>> > Yes, html_static_path must be set but it's already the case in conf.py.in:
>> > https://sources.debia
control: tag -1 + pending
Hello,
On Sat 24 Feb 2024 at 08:52am +01, Holger Wansing wrote:
> Hi Sean,
>
> Sean Whitton wrote (Sat, 24 Feb 2024 11:58:59
> +0800):
>> Attached is the patch I prepared, which I couldn't get to work. Maybe
>> you can see what is wro
policy
>>manual seem to return HTTP 404 responses at the moment, meaning that the
>>intended Sphinx CSS theming fails to apply.
>>
>>[1] - https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/
>
> Hmm, locally built it's fine here ...
>
> @Stéphane: could you take a loo
b/master/parts/7doc?ref_type=heads#L319
> to get such files copied over to debian.org during website build.
>
> But first, we need to have a working version in the binary package,
> since that's the basis for website build.
I guess I should have done a debdiff huh? :)
Thank you for the analysis. Osamu, Stéphane, could you take a look?
Thank you.
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Sean Whitton
Hello Josh,
Was there some recent packaging situation that prompted you to think
about this? I'm cautious about adding it in the absence of that.
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Sean Whitton
Hello,
On Mon 18 Mar 2024 at 04:06am -07, Josh Triplett wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 18, 2024 at 05:38:15PM +0800, Sean Whitton wrote:
>> Was there some recent packaging situation that prompted you to think
>> about this? I'm cautious about adding it in the absence of that
ds to broken dependencies, so still,
> prerms should not rely on dependencies, but only on essential packages.
I'm not sure that Policy is the place to discuss a change proposal like
this, and we can't render a swathe of packages RC buggy by making such a
change here. The archive would need to change first.
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he head and say "policy is not a stick."
This was basically my concern.
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ort to DSA to get this done).
>
> Closing #1066967 against sphinx-common/dh_sphinxdoc now.
> Thanks python people for your help!
Many thanks all for working on this, especially you Holger for this
scripting work. So, we're waiting in DSA and then on your script
changes, and it'll work again.
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#x27;t need
it, and to ensure installability on stable, or something similar.
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lso be wise ..." can you use one of the sets of
magic words from Policy 1.1, please?
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a patch based on the documentation in dsc(5), but I don't
> know what the current process is. Does anyone have a link to a doc on
> how to submit a change?
There is a chapter of Policy regarding the Policy Changes Process.
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rity concerns. Would it be possible to extend this
> restriction to all archives?
We need to know if this is going to break existing packages and allow
some input from their maintainers. Are you able to prepare a list of
the affected packages?
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Sean Whitton
ght of Debian guidelines and best practice?
>
> Is it ok, to have such "isolated copies" of packages as described above?
>
> I have not much experience in similar things, so I would like to get
> some comments here, please.
I mean, it seems okay to me, but it's up to the web team really.
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Hello,
On Tue 02 Apr 2024 at 04:18pm +01, Josh Triplett wrote:
> Sean Whitton wrote:
>> On Tue 26 Mar 2024 at 10:11am -06, Sam Hartman wrote:
>> > I tend to agree with Sean that your rationale is not convincing.
>> > It sounds like you want to use policy as a stick
> Rationale: this field is needed because otherwise to be able to get the test
>> dependencies, each source package would need to be unpacked.
Sounds good to me. If you'd like to propose wording, there's some more
guidance in our README.md. Thanks!
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buggy if
we just ban network access for all non-free packages. How about you?
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Hello,
On Sat 06 Apr 2024 at 12:15pm +08, Sean Whitton wrote:
> Hi Russ,
>
> We have two seconded solutions, so you and I should perhaps break the
> tie. I prefer the Bill's 'Autobuild: no' solution as the more
> conservative change: we only have data abo
Hello Holger,
I was thinking that maybe we could submit a joint Policy--DevRef BoF for
debconf, if you are going to be there.
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Sean Whitton
; dropping them. I guess this bug report will be closed unsolved instead.
In this case we weren't really making a decision on the Policy side, but
just updating documentation. So it can be changed back if the decision
is reversed.
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Sean Whitton
h services to run and in which order.
> """
> ^ is that "+" before "enabled" really intended? It looks weird to me.
Fixed in git, thanks.
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e no
>> need in providing more formats of this manual.
>>
>> Therefore we can close this and I will close 877337.
>
> fwiw, I disagree with this conclusion. single page txt and pdf versions
> are no replacements for single page html.
I agree, and still think we should be p
t; in policy-1.html).
Hrm. That seems like a pretty serious problem :\
Holger L., did you know about this issue?
Did you decide it was worth publishing anyway?
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Sean Whitton
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ire a new field.
That seems worth writing down.
Thank you Maytham for your work so far.
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Hello,
On Mon 15 Apr 2024 at 09:59am GMT, Holger Levsen wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 14, 2024 at 08:43:51PM +0800, Sean Whitton wrote:
>> ... but if dev-ref is already shipping both, maybe singlepage is indeed
>> usable these days ...
>
> I think it is.
>
>> > Could
Hello,
On Sat 20 Apr 2024 at 09:00pm +02, Guillem Jover wrote:
> Hi!
>
> On Thu, 2024-03-28 at 09:58:29 +0800, Sean Whitton wrote:
>> On Thu 07 Mar 2024 at 11:22pm +01, Guillem Jover wrote:
>> > diff --git a/policy/ch-source.rst b/policy/ch-source.rst
>> &
+It may also be wise to ensure a fresh start by emptying or removing it at the
> +start of the ``binary`` target.
>
> When ``dpkg-gencontrol`` is run for a binary package, it adds an entry
> to ``debian/files`` for the ``.deb`` file that will be created when
Seconded.
It seems prudent t
working on the internationalisation.
Does anyone know what's going on?
The 'next' branch has the current state of play.
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Sean Whitton
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also running
> «i18nspector **/*.po», both emit multiple things that could be fixed,
> or improved.
Thanks for taking a look. I think I've successfully merged the two sets
of .po files, now, on the next branch.
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Sean Whitton
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sing
Policy. So it would be good to file those bugs first.
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Sean Whitton
doesn't get to this soon,
please ping again.
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Sean Whitton
Hello,
Policy has a fair bit of this already but it's spread out.
E.g. take a look at 5.6.12.2.
Rather than duplicating, it might be helpful to have a discussion in
dev-ref that is kind of an index to all these relevant bits of Policy.
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Sean Whitton
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patch would be welcome and it would still be an informative/editorial
change that I could just upload, I think.
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Sean Whitton
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; in the article are just that, lowercase
policy in general.
As I'm also a Policy Editor, it's close to my heart.
Thanks!
[1] https://lwn.net/Articles/984720/
[2] https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/
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Sean Whitton
Hello,
On Wed 14 Aug 2024 at 06:10am -07, Jake Edge wrote:
> i am always loath to add a link into a quote, since we generally do not
> speak that way :)
That's a good thought, thanks!
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(Closes: #1074040).
Thanks to Ke Zhang for the report & patch.
+ * Update specification of the default value for Rules-Requires-Root.
+See #1057238.
-- Sean Whitton Sun, 07 Apr 2024 15:34:08 +0800
diff --git a/policy/ch-controlfields.rst b/policy/ch-controlfields.
Hello Michael,
We haven't finished with merged-/usr yet, so I don't think we will
consider a change like this any time soon.
I agree with you that the systemd maintainers should patch systemd in
Debian not to emit the warning. But that's up to them.
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Sean Whitton
n consumption, it seems like this
wouldn't cause too much breakage.
On the other hand, is there much benefit? People used to typing
'less debian/README.source' would need to retrain their fingers.
You can already add Vim and Emacs annotations to specify that the file
should have Markdown syntax highlighting, within the file.
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Sean Whitton
Hello Niels,
Did you confirm with a binary debdiff that this doesn't change anything?
Thanks.
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Sean Whitton
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ge version string scheme in cases where upstream has no
>> releases, but they do have git commit ids to refer to:
>
> I'm not sure if this should be in Policy, but it might make sense to
> document as "best practice" in the devleopers referrence?
Yes, I was thinking the same. Let's reassign this bug?
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Sean Whitton
ould change.
It does not mean that there is no policy (lowercase 'p') for these
version strings in Debian.
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Sean Whitton
ically that the version of form
> 0.0~git20130606.b00ec39-1 would be elevated as the Policy recommended
> form, as it makes sense and is already most popular.
You haven't made the case for this being in Policy as opposed to devref.
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Sean Whitton
;
> ;tl;dr: please merge this patch. & thanks, Niels! :)
Thanks for confirming -- patch is already applied and pending :)
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Sean Whitton
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have any ideas for determining which packages
currently break if the local admin nukes these directory hierarchies?
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Sean Whitton
ould matter less than something for containers.
So, 'should' seems more appropriate to me based on this.
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Thanks, updated our text (a non-normative change)
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Package: debian-policy
X-debbugs-cc: ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk
Here is a patch documenting the new tag2upload fields, in accordance
with the spec.[1] Seeking seconds.
[1] https://salsa.debian.org/dgit-team/dgit/-/blob/master/TAG2UPLOAD-DESIGN.txt
--
Sean Whitton
From
;
> +.. _s-locale-files:
> +
> +Locale files
> +
> +
> +The directory ``/usr/share/locale/`` contains localization files for
> +different locales.
> +
> +Packages should not require the existence of any files in
> +``/usr/share/locale/`` in order to function
gestion expected to get feedback in a month or is the
> frequency of policy suggestion reviews rarer?
Please see README.md in debian-policy and the Policy Changes Process.
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Sean Whitton
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