ext. By contrast,
the text you are replacing has a lot more details and is easy to
understand.
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to report a bug against the English version about the mistake.
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.
Perhaps you could share the wording you have in mind for such a note.
I'm still inclined to prioritise unblocking people, by giving them a way
of resolving disputes between versions of the document without asking on
d-policy, but let's see.
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Hello Ian,
On Tue 20 Nov 2018 at 03:24pm GMT, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Sean Whitton writes ("Bug#824495: debian-policy: Source packages "can"
> declare relationships"):
>> I still don't see how we can implement such new rules, though, because
>> of th
it's just the website that needs to be updated.
Right, so this is for the website team to fix.
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d libc6 packages
> trigger reboot notification, but systemd does not.
It seems fine to document this in Policy.
A patch would be welcome.
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grams may manipulate these files to signal that a reboot
> +is required.
> +
This is a bit awkward. You describe this feature in terms of maintainer
scripts and then say that programs can use it too. It would be better
to put it in ch. 9 or ch. 10, I think, and describe it in more general
te
otifications involving reboot.
It seems obvious that touching ``/run/reboot-required`` does not trigger
a reboot, and typical Debian systems never reboot by themselves. IMO
this paragraph is unnecessarily verbose. How about:
There are no guarantees provided by the ``/var/reboot-required``
convention as to when the required reboot will occur.
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Hello,
On Thu 24 Jan 2019 at 05:08PM +01, Chris Lamb wrote:
> Sean Whitton wrote:
>
>> > Maybe more eye-candy theme (see https://sphinx-themes.org/) is good for
>> > policy-doc and other debian docs [..]
>>
>> Yup. We put out a call for this as soon as we
t;
> which IMO is as good as it is. It also explicitly points to
> http://www.debian.org/devel/tech-ctte for detailed information.
At least for Policy bugs referred to the TC, they prefer a fresh bug
where the first message is a summary of the situation, rather than a clone.
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Hello,
On Sat 26 Jan 2019 at 12:11AM +00, Holger Levsen wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 04:56:09PM -0700, Sean Whitton wrote:
>> > which IMO is as good as it is. It also explicitly points to
>> > http://www.debian.org/devel/tech-ctte for detailed information.
>&g
t; +maintainer script that touches ``/run/reboot-required``, at the end
> +of a successful configuration of the package.
> +
> +There are no guarantees provided by the ``/var/reboot-required``
> +convention as to when or whether the requested reboot will occur.
Seconded.
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Hello,
On Sat 09 Feb 2019 at 08:47PM -06, Karl O. Pinc wrote:
> Anyway, do whatever you think best.
Having read it a few more times I think both are valid, and will use
your patch unmodified.
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patible.
I have not read the whole thread, but a quick scan suggests that all we
are waiting for here is for someone to write a patch against current
Policy's master branch.
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properly understand the issue, but it doesn't seem like it needs to
block adding the virtual packages to the list.
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cified for the same package.
Seconded and committed, thanks.
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For the purposes of this e-mail, let's assume that we have a good grasp
on what a "reasonable standard development workstation install" means.
Thanks.
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Hello,
On Fri 15 Feb 2019 at 08:59PM -0700, Sean Whitton wrote:
> Use of the Build-Conflicts field is currently mostly optional, but Ian
> Jackson and I have been working on text for Debian Policy that would
> require its use in certain cases. See #824495 for the discussion.
>
>
oint to section
> 4.9 in the FHS?
>
> In FHS 2.3, this "section 4.5" might have been right. But as said in
> policy 9.1.1:
>
>> The location of all files and directories must comply with the Filesystem
>> Hierarchy Standard (FHS), version 3.0, [...].
>
&
ve before
standardising it in Policy. Please consider reassigning the bug back to
the package in which it might be implemented, unless you have some
reason why the Policy change absolutely has to happen first.
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this at every sphinx version bump :-)
Once #658238 is resolved, it won't be necessary. See comments in
debian-policy's d/rules.
I've made another upload.
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on't expect to be able
to produce a program that will every single bit of markup right, but
one that would get most of the way there. This approach worked well
for Policy when we converted that to rST+Sphinx in 2017.
Thank you in advance for your input!
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Hello,
On Tue 09 Apr 2019 at 12:15AM +0200, Guillem Jover wrote:
> Hmm, but the devref appears to be already in docbook? :)
This is certainly good news. Thank you.
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fixes those references to the new numbers found in the FHS 3.0
> document, **and thus fixes the typos.**
I dropped the final clause because the problem was not a typographical
error, at least how I understand that term.
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ommit
>> has it correct.
>
> Actually, I think I was meant to say 9.1.2 for the changelog.
Fixed, thanks.
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t all.
ISTM that an exception for d-i packages would be much less
controversial.
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hought not to require the
+copying of all copyright notices into the package's copyright file.
+This was based on discussion between myself and FTP team members.
-- Sean Whitton Tue, 09 Apr 2019 10:20:30 -0700
diff --git a/policy/ch-archive.rst b/policy/ch-archive.rst
index 72764a9..
down. The problem, I guess, is that we have never
standardised on an implementation of Policy before now (aside from the
bits that are in dpkg itself).
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Hello,
On Tue 30 Apr 2019 at 04:39PM -07, Sean Whitton wrote:
> Policy currently documents an interface, and debhelper/dh is an
> implementation of large parts of that interface.
> [...]
Someone pointed out to me that in sending the e-mail to which I'm
replying, I violated Sam&#x
ther tools to implement its requirements.
When I say "layering violation", I'm not trying to stand on principle in
any sense. Moving the interface boundary such as to have Policy
recommend using dh_shlibdeps, say, is not odd in the way that the
possibility of Policy recommending/requiring use of the whole dh
sequencer is.
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nt to be
an instruction manual" in mind as they write.
In short, large restructuring does not seem necessary in order to
implement what you describe.
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27;t want to be in the line of fire when difficult decisions are
> being made, and perhaps because they didn't want to try to become
> experts in everything. But it means that uncontroversial changes can
> languish.
Do you (or anyone else) have any concrete ideas for simplifying the
proposer/seconder scheme, without significantly reducing the oversight
on changes, even uncontroversial ones?
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thing that could be solved by
patching the Policy Manual, the T.C. should respond to the question by
opening a bug against the Policy Manual, and suspending the T.C. bug
until it becomes clear whether or not that debian-policy bug is going to
reach consensus?
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ke a change
to the Policy Manual because of a particular T.C. decision.
It's very complicated and time-consuming to discuss in the abstract, and
it has not actually been a problem in at least the last two to three
years.
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> Regards,
> laokz
I think the scripts need to be updated for the .txt->.yaml change in
debian-policy 4.3.0.0. Thanks.
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; mandatory,
> is it dpkg-dev and policy issue?
Requiring maintainers to put `Rules-Requires-Root: no` in every single
d/control file would be a debian-policy bug, yes.
Changing debhelper's default, if that remainder overrideable by the
maintainer, would not be.
(surely we are a very long way from r-r-r: no for every package?)
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ot;the default in our package build
toolchain" as I didn't really mean to distinguish between dpkg and
debhelper in making my point.
Thank you for pointing out the error.
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Hello,
On Tue 11 Jun 2019 at 09:53am +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Mon, 08 Apr 2019, Sean Whitton wrote:
>> I am considering to working to convert dev-ref to rST+Sphinx this
>> summer. I would like to start a discussion about doing that. The
>> main
are things that executable programs have, not source
code.
Can I suggest we talk instead about the "starting point for the content
of d/rules" and say something like "this starting point is often
sufficient to build a package satisfying most of the requirements below
(and many others), and where it is not, package-specific instructions
are usually expressed using override targets" ?
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gt; - This feature is not yet present, however, and is expected to be used
> - only infrequently.
> + This functionality was introduced in dpkg 1.17.11 and newer and
> + full support has been provided in the Debian archive since 2018.
>
> .. [#]
> To see why ``Breaks`` is normally needed in addition to ``Replaces``,
Seconded. Thank you again.
I've made some editorial changes (and fixed the introduction of a
duplicate footnote reference) on branch bug761219-spwhitton of
policy.git, but these do not need seconding.
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rt fails in a maintscript is left up to package
>maintainer discretion, and close the bugs
> [...]
I no longer think this would be useful enough to have in Policy, but I'd
like to hear from anyone who disagrees.
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control: tag -1 -patch +pending
Hello,
On Thu 20 Jun 2019 at 04:43pm +0200, gregor herrmann wrote:
> Seconded as well.
Thanks. Applied.
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Hello Russ, Sam,
On Thu 20 Jun 2019 at 09:01AM -07, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Sean Whitton writes:
>
>> A tiny thing is that you seem to have switched "" for "",
>> which seems wrong.
>
> I'll put this back to args... since it just muddles the di
Hello,
On Fri 21 Jun 2019 at 01:09PM +01, Sean Whitton wrote:
> packaging helper might want to use their new tool. The
> recommendation to use ``dh`` does not always apply, and use of
> ``dh`` is therefore not required.
>
> - saying that use of ``dh`` is "not r
t; (which is the goal above), and then look at what we can do elsewhere to
> spread the clarity once we've agreed on what we want to say here.
I agree that this is the way to proceed here.
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a
sprawling, unmanageable morass of difficult problems. That isn't how
things are, because while there are indeed a lot of hard problems, they
are largely independent of each other, and tackling individual
debian-policy bugs really does improve Debian. However, it is much
harder to see that when half of the open bugs are more than five years
old yet not tagged wontfix.
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rried about.
When I took on the role of Policy Editor I subscribed myself to the
T.C.'s mailing list. I consider it part of the role to keep abreast of
their activities. In light of the present thread, I'll keep in mind the
need to flag to the T.C. places where decisions they are abo
a substantial issue
> that ought to be dealt with.
>
> While vacillation is undesirable, making it easier and less socially
> costly to handle mistakes, will make it easier to make changes.
I agree that this could help a lot. I have certainly felt hesitation
before committing a change, thinking "maybe we should give people more
time to raise issues with this change", and this would avoid that sort
of situation.
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control: tag -1 -patch +pending
Hello,
On Mon 29 Apr 2019 at 11:16am -0700, Sean Whitton wrote:
> I've written a patch to add a footnote with a list of licenses that are
> thought not to require the copying of all copyright notices into
> Debian's copyright file.
>
is RC-buggy if
d/rules is not executable. Stepping back, why /not/ commit it as
executable to your VCS? It might help someone someday.
I think the comment about dpkg-source is there because with the 1.0
source package format, you couldn't store the file with execute
permissions within the .dsc, so it's a necessary step.
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t required.
> +
> +For more information about how to use ``dh``, see the documentation in the
> +debhelper package, most notably the dh(1) manual page.
>
> The following targets are required and must be implemented by
> ``debian/rules``: ``clean``, ``binary``, ``binary-arch``,
Seconded, and applied to 'next'. Thank you!
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by installing a doc-base control file in
+``/usr/share/doc-base/``.
Please refer to the documentation that comes with the doc-base package
for information and details.
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red to fix this bug. It seems
like a good idea on a first look, but we should see if we're going to
make any packages buggy by introducing a 'should' requirement here.
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e, given that
> Policy already says "A paragraph must not contain more than one instance
> of a particular field name" in Policy 5.1.
I concur and so I've gone ahead and committed it to master.
We can continue to discuss the more substantial change proposal in this
bug. I didn&#
er than ``http`` or ``git``)
Seconded.
Thanks, Guillem, for the research!
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em.
We would want to be careful to word this requirement such that it did
not license maintainers to do things which block the work of those who
don't like systemd.
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keysize ought to be included
alongside the fingerprint, if the above is right.
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signer's
> information into the archive; I'd like also to know how to verify the
> signature later on should I wish to do so and I assume I need to know what
> to git clone and which tag to git tag -v.
If there is an accurate Vcs field, then there is enough in the .dsc to
fetch the rig
wasn't involved other than reporting problems with the
published version of Policy, and I don't think we made changes to our
package in response to any requests from the www-team.
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Hello,
On Mon 22 Jul 2019 at 01:39pm +02, Ansgar wrote:
> On Mon, 2019-07-22 at 12:01 +0100, Sean Whitton wrote:
>
> What sort of dependencies are we talking about? Package-level
> dependencies (e.g. Depends: systemd-sysv directly or indirectly)?
>
>> People who don
support.
Agreed, that's definitely not the preferred result.
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Hello David,
On Tue 23 Jul 2019 at 12:49PM -04, David Steele wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 11:15 AM Sean Whitton
> wrote:
>>
>> I think that the wording for this change should reflect the above
>> (unless I've misunderstood David), such that the new wording c
Hello,
On Tue 23 Jul 2019 at 06:39am +01, Sean Whitton wrote:
> If there is an accurate Vcs field, then there is enough in the .dsc to
> fetch the right tag from salsa.
The tag is also fetchable from dgit-repos (from which it cannot be
deleted), with `dgit clone` or plain git clone.
--
Hello,
On Tue 23 Jul 2019 at 10:14PM +01, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Sean Whitton writes ("Bug#932753: tag2upload should record git tag signer
> info in .dsc [and 1 more messages]"):
>> AIUI a fingerprint fails to uniquely identify a PGP key unless you also
>> include the
tion 2.
Would this also be useful to get the translations of debian-policy
published on the mirrors too?
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because so far as I can
see it's simply out of scope.
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formats for all languages.
>
> Just give me some time with developers-reference get this sorted out.
Okay -- Policy's build is already quite complex so please try to keep
the patch as small as possible.
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Sean Whitton
too. I don't think current Japanese HTML
> build location is the best place.
Cool. Please feel free to accompany your patch with another which
finishes the presently incomplete Japanese translation ;)
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y of you have good sense of color, adjusting color via CSS may be
> an option for this pull-down menu.
>
> Your feed back is most appreciated.
Thank you for all this!
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it quite a hard problem, so it would be good to have some data before we
spend any time discussing this further.
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these
to refer to different things? Surely we can combine the language somehow.
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TORM-level bug report.
> Right now the Policy is pretty much telling me to add an init script
> with calls to systemctl. I'd like a different answer.
I think we can achieve this.
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ge which uses a feature of systemd, where something
equivalent cannot be achieved by using a sysvinit script? Such as
something to access the systemd dbus interface.
I'm not sure how to express that right now, but I think it can be done.
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ot;, but that will be a different patch.)
That would be great.
Thank you for taking the time to work on the readability of Policy.
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Hello,
On Fri 27 Sep 2019 at 09:26AM +02, Ansgar wrote:
> Sean Whitton writes:
>>> +Packages that include system services should include ``systemd`` units
>>> +to start or stop services.
>>> +
>>> Packages that include daemons for system services should p
be
> +escaped with a backslash. A path like "foo bar" may be
> +selected with a pattern like "foo?bar".
> +
>
>
>
Seconded.
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is provided by some other init system.
I think this would work. What do you think, David?
Dmitry, perhaps you could work up a patch against policy.git.
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ntation doesn't
require anyone to make changes to their packages.
Could you explain why you want it in the upgrading checklist?
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control: tag -1 +moreinfo
Hello,
On Tue 01 Oct 2019 at 04:21PM +02, Mattia Rizzolo wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 01, 2019 at 07:14:08AM -0700, Sean Whitton wrote:
>> Hmm, this was deliberate because the additional documentation doesn't
>> require anyone to make changes to their packa
Hello,
On Thu 03 Oct 2019 at 10:40AM +02, Mattia Rizzolo wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 02, 2019 at 08:03:15AM -0700, Sean Whitton wrote:
>> > Like you document in the checklist addition to the virtual packages:
>> > also those don't require any change to existing packages
Hello David,
On Sun 29 Sep 2019 at 10:35AM -04, David Steele wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 1:05 PM Sean Whitton wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> On Sat 28 Sep 2019 at 04:18PM +00, Dmitry Bogatov wrote:
>>
>> > Reasonable. Then let's drop part about D
eview the other docs and confirm
that we're not deleting anything useful before proceeding on this.
Sorry to be so queasy about clean up activities.
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reflects project consensus?
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fix for dia-common waiting in the BTS, so I don't think
we need to consider any changes to src:debian-policy at this point.
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po``.
> +
> +In the case of Mercurial, the value must have the following syntax::
> +
> + [ " -b " ]
> +
> +This is interpreted the same way as the Git syntax except a path
> +within the repository is not supported.
>
> A package control
gt; +the ``README.runlevels`` file shipped with ``sysv-rc`` for
> +implementation details. Other alternatives might exist.
> +
> +Maintainer scripts must use ``update-rc.d`` as described below to
> +interact with the service manage for requests such as enabling or
> +disabling services. They should use ``invoke-rc.d`` as described below
> +to invoke initscripts for requests such as starting and stopping
> +service.
>
> .. _s-writing-init:
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ng a change of runlevel. These scripts should
> +be named ``/etc/init.d/package``, and they should accept one argument,
> +saying what to do:
>
> ``start``
> start the service,
Seconded.
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s of their build dependencies."
Thank you for this. I agree that the sentence is unnecessarily hard to
read. Perhaps you could propose a patch against policy.git.
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Sean Whitton
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w".
> `---
>
> It's not clear to me, whether this refers to the packaging or any
> program provided by that package. Depending on the reading this
> would make the passwd package buggy. So it might be worth clarifying
> probably by adding "passwd" to t
ments. Not sure your proposal captures that. Any other
ideas for better phrasing?
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is a very strong reason not to drop the Source:
field, since the descriptive homepage will usually have a link to the
git web view. But I thought I'd note my experience.
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3:27:27
> -0800)
>
> are available in the Git repository at:
>
> https://salsa.debian.org/ansgar/policy.git typo-multple-multiple
>
> for you to fetch changes up to ce89b3c4ea96b9767264cd3589a43686ad4d9cac:
>
> typo: multple → multiple (2019-11-09 12:45:21 +0100)
Thanks, applied.
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Hello,
On Sat 16 Nov 2019 at 04:13AM +01, Guillem Jover wrote:
> On Sat, 2019-11-09 at 08:55:23 -0700, Sean Whitton wrote:
>> On Thu 07 Nov 2019 at 09:00AM -08, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> > I'm in favor of dropping this information from debian/copyright and
>> > inst
uot;In such cases, ..." right before "... these words
describe decisions ...", to clarify that your new text is not exhaustive
regarding usage of 'may' and 'optional' in Policy?
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d to be rebuilt
> against newer versions of their build dependencies.
Thanks, I think this is good -- would be good to hear from Nicholas too
though.
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Sean Whitton
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il`` would be
> +located at ``debian/missing-sources/checksum/util.c``.
I don't think this should be strengthened to something Policy
encourages, or if it should, we should discuss it in a separate bug. So
I'd like to suggest using none of the magic words in this paragraph,
just starting it with "There is a convention to organise ..."
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ange as part of resolving this bug, but
let's also mention the semantic change in the upgrading checklist, just
in case there is some strange edge case we've missed.
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Hello Nicholas,
I am not sure what is going on with your (1), (2) and (3). Perhaps you
could propose your change in the form of a patch.
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Sean Whitton
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ked it as closing this bug.
If you'd like to convert your stub paragraph into an actual patch,
against current master, please do share it for consideration.
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Sean Whitton
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unstable unless
(a) the package is not in testing, or (b) they are planning to request
an unblock.
The current text seems to suggest everything carries on as normal in
unstable.
Maybe experimental should be mentioned as partly taking over the usual
role of unstable during the freeze.
--
Sean
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