On Fri, Nov 22, 2024 at 5:49 AM Guillem Jover wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> On Tue, 2024-11-05 at 17:35:59 -0600, Aaron Rainbolt wrote:
> > With all this in mind, I'd like to call some attention to a feature
> > request made by Patrick Schleizer some time ago, whom I've copied on
> > this email. The feature
Hi!
On Tue, 2024-11-05 at 17:35:59 -0600, Aaron Rainbolt wrote:
> With all this in mind, I'd like to call some attention to a feature
> request made by Patrick Schleizer some time ago, whom I've copied on
> this email. The feature request suggests the addition of a new field to
> Debian's binary d
On Thu, 7 Nov 2024 22:29:07 -0500
"Theodore Ts'o" wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 07, 2024 at 12:08:22AM -0700, Soren Stoutner wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 6, 2024 10:41:46 PM MST Aaron Rainbolt
> > wrote:
> > > Again, this isn't a problem limited to a derivative distribution.
> > > I respect that yo
On Thu, Nov 07, 2024 at 12:08:22AM -0700, Soren Stoutner wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 6, 2024 10:41:46 PM MST Aaron Rainbolt wrote:
> > Again, this isn't a problem limited to a derivative distribution. I
> > respect that your opinion of how Recommends should work differs from
> > mine. That does
On 2024-11-08 00:17, gregor herrmann wrote:
The distinction between Depends, Recommends or Suggests is not a
true/false thing; this is not a question of mathematics or science
but always a judgement call. Adding another category won't solve
anything IMO but only extend the sometimes blurry area.
On Thu, 07 Nov 2024 00:08:22 -0700, Soren Stoutner wrote:
> Some packages are clearly in Depends, Recommends, or Suggests. Others might
> be right
> on the line between two of the categories. In these cases, a maintainer has
> to make a
> judgement call. If a user thinks they have got it wr
On Wed, 06 Nov 2024 13:08:07 -0600, Aaron Rainbolt wrote:
> Then again,
> given that policy is clear about how Recommends ought to be used and
> it's pretty clear that there are packages that just don't use it right,
I'm sorry but I have to disagree here; it's "pretty clear" for you
but I believe
On 07/11/2024 04:12, Aaron Rainbolt wrote:
just to get around problematic recommends in Debian's packages.
What about having a way to configure the packaging tools you use to only
consider a whitelist (with pattern match, pin-style) of package
Recommends? This way you could use your metapacka
Colin Watson left as an exercise for the reader:
> (https://peps.python.org/pep-0508/#extras): effectively groups of
> additional dependencies to enable some kind of feature that you can opt
> into if you need that feature, rather than having to pick from an
> undifferentiated pile of Recommends, o
On Wednesday, November 6, 2024 10:41:46 PM MST Aaron Rainbolt wrote:
> Again, this isn't a problem limited to a derivative distribution. I
> respect that your opinion of how Recommends should work differs from
> mine. That doesn't change the policy though, and it doesn't change that
> neglecting or
On 2024-11-06, Colin Watson wrote:
> In some ways I think what we're missing is really a way to do the
> equivalent of "extras" in Python packages
> (https://peps.python.org/pep-0508/#extras): effectively groups of
> additional dependencies to enable some kind of feature that you can opt
> into if
On Wed, 06 Nov 2024 21:41:43 -0700
Soren Stoutner wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 6, 2024 8:12:29 PM MST Aaron Rainbolt wrote:
> > At this point, we have two options. We can either explicitly remove
> > all of the extra packages that get installed, or we can skip
> > installing recommends at all.
On Wednesday, November 6, 2024 8:12:29 PM MST Aaron Rainbolt wrote:
> At this point, we have two options. We can either explicitly remove all
> of the extra packages that get installed, or we can skip installing
> recommends at all. Both of these come with their own severe
> disadvantages. If we ma
On Wed, 06 Nov 2024 15:59:22 -0700
Soren Stoutner wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 6, 2024 3:06:59 PM MST Aaron Rainbolt wrote:
> > And this brings us back to the original idea of creating a
> > Weak-Depends field. From my viewpoint, policy states that
> > Recommends is for declaring a strong (hea
Hello Aaron and everybody,
the R package ecosystem uses control fields inspired by ours. But there
the Suggests field is used in a stronger way: packages listed in
Suggests usually provide functionality that is directly leveraged by
packaged code, and the usual pattern is that if the suggested pa
On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 22:55:43 +
Colin Watson wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 06, 2024 at 04:06:59PM -0600, Aaron Rainbolt wrote:
> > (Side note, I wonder if there's a way to implement Weak-Depends that
> > *doesn't* require modifying all of the tons of packages Johannes
> > mentioned. Maybe some way of an
On Wednesday, November 6, 2024 3:06:59 PM MST Aaron Rainbolt wrote:
> And this brings us back to the original idea of creating a Weak-Depends
> field. From my viewpoint, policy states that Recommends is for
> declaring a strong (heavy emphasis on "strong" here), but not absolute,
> dependency.
Aft
On Wed, Nov 06, 2024 at 04:06:59PM -0600, Aaron Rainbolt wrote:
> (Side note, I wonder if there's a way to implement Weak-Depends that
> *doesn't* require modifying all of the tons of packages Johannes
> mentioned. Maybe some way of annotating packages in Recommends as
> "important" would permit a
On Wed, 06 Nov 2024 14:21:30 -0700
Soren Stoutner wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 6, 2024 12:08:07 PM MST Aaron Rainbolt wrote:
> >For instance, gwenview currently
> > recommends kamera. gwenview is an image viewer, kamera is a tool for
> > working with digital cameras. Now it is true that kamera
On Wednesday, November 6, 2024 12:08:07 PM MST Aaron Rainbolt wrote:
>For instance, gwenview currently
> recommends kamera. gwenview is an image viewer, kamera is a tool for
> working with digital cameras. Now it is true that kamera enhances
> gwenview's functionality by allowing it to see pictures
Fay Stegerman writes:
> [Added diffosc...@lists.reproducible-builds.org to Cc]
>
> * Fay Stegerman [2024-11-06 17:43]:
>> * Johannes Schauer Marin Rodrigues [2024-11-06 02:28]:
>> [...]
>> > Have one package diffoscope and one package diffoscope-full and you could
>> > even
>> > have a package
On Wed, 6 Nov 2024 18:03:07 +
Holger Levsen wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 06, 2024 at 06:03:45PM +0100, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:
> > Afaict, the problem is that we have 3 options to pick from, and
> > it's hard for people to decide which is the "right one". I do not
> > see how adding a 4th option wi
On Wed, Nov 06, 2024 at 06:03:45PM +0100, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:
> Afaict, the problem is that we have 3 options to pick from, and it's hard for
> people to decide which is the "right one".
> I do not see how adding a 4th option will make this decision any easier (esp.
> since that new option
[Added diffosc...@lists.reproducible-builds.org to Cc]
* Fay Stegerman [2024-11-06 17:43]:
> * Johannes Schauer Marin Rodrigues [2024-11-06 02:28]:
> [...]
> > Have one package diffoscope and one package diffoscope-full and you could
> > even
> > have a package diffoscope-minimal and there you
Am 6. November 2024 00:35:59 MEZ schrieb Aaron Rainbolt :
>
>
>* Add a "Weak-Depends" field to the list of binary dependency control
> fields in the Debian Policy Manual section 7.2, with a definition
> very similar to the existing definition for "Recommends".
>* Change the definition of the "Rec
* Johannes Schauer Marin Rodrigues [2024-11-06 02:28]:
[...]
> Have one package diffoscope and one package diffoscope-full and you could even
> have a package diffoscope-minimal and there you have user-selectable
> granularity.
We already have two diffoscope packages for exactly this reason (I wo
Partially top-posting because there are some assumptions here that need
cleared up.
Hi Johannes, and thanks for your feedback. I would like to point out
that I explicitly said in the very start of my email, that this was
something I was "interested in potentially contributing code to fix." I
see t
Hi,
Quoting Aaron Rainbolt (2024-11-06 00:35:59)
> According to the Debian Policy Manual, section 7.2, the Recommends field in
> Debian packages "declares a strong, but not absolute, dependency. The
> Recommends field should list packages that would be found together with this
> one in all but unu
Hello, and thanks for your time.
I've been a Debian user and contributor for a while, and have noticed a
rather frustrating issue that I'm interested in potentially
contributing code to fix. The issue is what I call "Recommended bloat",
which in short is what happens when you install a package wit
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