For software that is incompatible with pulseaudio, prefix the command
with 'pasuspender':
$ pasuspender oss-or-alsa-only-program args...
Jeff
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Archive:
Stephan Seitz writes:
> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:39:06AM +, Darac Marjal wrote:
>>> But the normal case is that uninstalling a software you also stop
>>> getting the functionality it provides, with pulseaudio you START
>>> getting the functionality it claims to provide by uninstalling it.
>
On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 01:16:22PM +0100, Ond??ej Sur?? wrote:
> So if you want to have Debian installation without systemd, then go help
> him with OpenRC, help writing new openrc init scripts to replace old
> rusty sysv-rc script, etc. That's the way to go forward. Just don't
> expect other peopl
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014, at 11:28, Oleg wrote:
> I'm using debian and i don't want to use systemd in any form (with
> gnome3, etc).
So what? Should we stand in awe that you are Debian user?
I certainly care about (well most of) the users of my packages, but this
attitude makes me really angry a
On 12/02/14 14:16, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> Hi!
>
> On 02/12/2014 01:04 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>> On 02/12/2014 03:01 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
>>> Why not stop here with OpenRC and call it day?
>>> You cannot always win in life :).
>>
>> Short version:
>>
>> Why don't you
On 02/12/2014 11:01 PM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> Again, are you the listmaster or DPL or what?
I thought you were smarter and would understand you went too far and
should stop. Though if the only way to stop your insults is to go to the
DPL or the listmaster, I believe I wont even have t
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 1:02 PM, Kevin Chadwick wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:25:14 -0500
> Paul Tagliamonte wrote:
>
>> > If they have decided on systemd as default [...]
>>
>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/02/msg5.html
>>
>> Can we please end this thread?
>
> Sure but
Hi,
Kevin Chadwick:
> > Can we please end this thread?
>
> Sure but perhaps you could save me the trouble to say if there is a
> general outline of the factors that the decision made was based upon
> perhaops somewhere in the ctte mailing list archive. Or a round up
> published before voting.
>
On 2014-02-12, Kevin Chadwick wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:25:14 -0500
> Paul Tagliamonte wrote:
>>
>> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/02/msg5.html
>>
>> Can we please end this thread?
>
> Don't tell me it was just a vote with licensing issues being taken by
> many ove
On Mi, 12 feb 14, 19:02:00, Kevin Chadwick wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:25:14 -0500
> Paul Tagliamonte wrote:
>
> > > If they have decided on systemd as default [...]
> >
> > https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/02/msg5.html
> >
> > Can we please end this thread?
>
> Sur
Kevin Chadwick writes:
> Sure but perhaps you could save me the trouble to say if there is a
> general outline of the factors that the decision made was based upon
> perhaops somewhere in the ctte mailing list archive. Or a round up
> published before voting.
> Don't tell me it was just a vote w
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:25:14 -0500
Paul Tagliamonte wrote:
> > If they have decided on systemd as default [...]
>
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/02/msg5.html
>
> Can we please end this thread?
Sure but perhaps you could save me the trouble to say if there is a
gener
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 04:34:17PM +0100, Stephan Seitz wrote:
> Users (at least users from Debian Stable) are not beta testers.
This is assuming that either:
1) This is not going to be tested in Debian
2) systemd is not production quality
I don't think 1 is fair, seeing as how quite a few
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 01:36:14PM +0100, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
Snarkiness aside, IMHO it makes much more sense to have the
most-featureful init system be the default, because then those features
actually get used and tested -- and thus the situation will be more
reliable than if only those u
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:39:06AM +, Darac Marjal wrote:
But the normal case is that uninstalling a software you also stop
getting the functionality it provides, with pulseaudio you START
getting the functionality it claims to provide by uninstalling it.
Really? Uninstalling Pulseaudio giv
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 01:36:14PM +0100, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Oleg:
> > > If you want to use sysvinit, don't use Debian.
> >
> > Why? I want to use debian as i used before - with a classic init. I like
> > debian in the form as it is now. You doesn't like it. May be _you_ should
>
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 09:03:54AM -0500, The Wanderer wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA512
>
> On 02/12/2014 07:45 AM, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
>
> >> Again. If these companies invest money into the development of
> >> their embedded platforms init, we must not use it in our
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 03:54:48PM +, Kevin Chadwick wrote:
> If they have decided on systemd as default [...]
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/02/msg5.html
Can we please end this thread?
Thanks!
Paul
--
.''`. Paul Tagliamonte | Proud Debian Developer
: :' :
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 04:57:57PM +0100, Salvo Tomaselli wrote:
> > Oh really? You get per-application mixing, dynamic output redirection,
> > bluetooth support, network transparency, all of that with alsa+dmix?
> No, but per application mixing with no sound coming out from the speakers is
> not
> Oh really? You get per-application mixing, dynamic output redirection,
> bluetooth support, network transparency, all of that with alsa+dmix?
No, but per application mixing with no sound coming out from the speakers is
not the most useful thing.
--
Salvo Tomaselli
"Io non mi sento obbligato
previously on this list John Paul Adrian Glaubitz contributed:
> You know that you did this before and you apologized to me in private.
> If you like, I can post this mail to the public list. You said the exact
> same things before and I have heard other Debian Developers who think
> the same way
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On 02/12/2014 04:07 PM, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
> Thomas, John: could you please move your personal argument
> off-list?
I already said I wanted to stop posting and asked Thomas to do the
same. I don't want to discuss this anymore since the TC h
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On 02/11/2014 12:38 PM, Russ Allbery wrote:
> The Wanderer writes:
>
>> In my case: because I want to be able to read them conveniently at
>> a glance, without requiring the presence of a functioning
>> specialized tool for doing so. As the UNIX P
Thomas, John: could you please move your personal argument off-list?
This thread is already way too long and isn't bringing anything new (or
positive for what is worth) to the discussion.
Let me also remind you that the purpose of this list is to discuss
"technical development topics": it can o
Maybe time for both to agree to take this offlist or just not continue?
I don't think anyone means any harm, but arguing will just result in bad
blood IMO.
--
Regards,
Olav
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On 02/12/2014 03:35 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> To sum up what Adrian wrote, according to him, I'm:
> - derogative
> - arrogant
> - utterly annoying
> - hypocrite
> - and finally, I wasn't honest before
>
> Well done... ! Anything else?
Telling me to shut up and using sentences like "we get it" w
On 02/12/2014 09:31 PM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On 02/12/2014 01:49 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>> On 02/12/2014 01:27 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
>>> Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate what you and the other
>>> maintainers are working on. But I think that it's not leading
>
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On 02/12/2014 07:45 AM, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
>> Again. If these companies invest money into the development of
>> their embedded platforms init, we must not use it in our desktops
>> and servers.
>
> So, in your opnion, everybody who works on th
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 12:28:49PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> Please do your homework yourself and stop asking the same
> questions over and over again.
Agree, I explained various things already in the same thread. There are
indications of people who indicate they don't like the amo
On 02/12/2014 01:49 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 02/12/2014 01:27 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
>> Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate what you and the other
>> maintainers are working on. But I think that it's not leading
>> anywhere.
>
> That's entirely your view, and it's fine if y
Hi!
On 02/12/2014 01:04 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 02/12/2014 03:01 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
>> Why not stop here with OpenRC and call it day?
>> You cannot always win in life :).
>
> Short version:
>
> Why don't you just call it a day, and let me work on what I wish? What
> is y
On 02/12/2014 01:27 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate what you and the other
> maintainers are working on. But I think that it's not leading
> anywhere.
That's entirely your view, and it's fine if you have it. Though *we got
your point* Adrian, no need
Hi,
Oleg:
> A small part of a distro dev team choose to use a systemd and others users are
> simply forced to use it.
>
(a) then you should have complained / started a GR *instead of* delegating
the question to the TC.
> Are we engineers or marketers? I thought we talk about a technical side
>
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 03:57:53PM +0400, Oleg wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 12:26:39PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> > On 02/12/2014 11:33 AM, Oleg wrote:
> > > On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 08:37:59PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> > >> On the other hand, what companies and di
Hi,
Oleg:
> > If you want to use sysvinit, don't use Debian.
>
> Why? I want to use debian as i used before - with a classic init. I like
> debian in the form as it is now. You doesn't like it. May be _you_ should
> use an another system, that meet your wishes?
>
Since Jessie (at least) will s
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 03:42:54PM +0400, Oleg wrote:
> A small part of a distro dev team choose to use a systemd and others users are
> simply forced to use it.
Kind of empty speak. In any distribution you have a small amount of
people who contribute loads of time. E.g. ctte people, etc. If they
On 02/12/2014 03:01 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> Why not stop here with OpenRC and call it day?
> You cannot always win in life :).
Short version:
Why don't you just call it a day, and let me work on what I wish? What
is your problem with me working on it???
Longer version:
Part of wh
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 12:26:39PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On 02/12/2014 11:33 AM, Oleg wrote:
> > On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 08:37:59PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> >> On the other hand, what companies and distributions and companies
> >> actively support Upstart and Op
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 12:10:58PM +0100, Salvo Tomaselli wrote:
>
> > > There is no bug if its not installed.
> >
> > Which is the case for most programs. We could close almost all our bugs
> > on this ground.
> But the normal case is that uninstalling a software you also stop getting the
> fun
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 12:24:03PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> > And what is this prove? That a small part of a distro dev team choose to
> > use
> > a systemd? Where are votes of all distro users?
>
> Those are among the most important distributions which attract most
> users and
Le 12/02/2014 12:10, Salvo Tomaselli a écrit :
>
>>> There is no bug if its not installed.
>>
>> Which is the case for most programs. We could close almost all our bugs
>> on this ground.
> But the normal case is that uninstalling a software you also stop getting the
> functionality it provides,
Le mercredi 12 février 2014 à 12:10 +0100, Salvo Tomaselli a écrit :
> But the normal case is that uninstalling a software you also stop getting the
> functionality it provides, with pulseaudio you START getting the
> functionality
> it claims to provide by uninstalling it.
Oh really? You get
On 02/12/2014 11:53 AM, Oleg wrote:
> Why do i need an unneeded layer for this - journalctl?
We have discussed this over and over again and there is tons
of documentation and discussions explaining the reasoning
behind that.
Please do your homework yourself and stop asking the same
questions over
On 02/12/2014 11:33 AM, Oleg wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 08:37:59PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
>> On the other hand, what companies and distributions and companies
>> actively support Upstart and OpenRC.
>
> Is this important?
Yes, it is. Large market share means large interes
On 02/12/2014 11:28 AM, Oleg wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 03:47:59PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
>> systemd is used as the default init system in:
>>
>> - Fedora
>> - Arch Linux
>> - Mageia
>> - openSUSE
>> - SLES (upcoming)
>> - RHEL7
>> - Frugalware
>> - (see Wikipedia)
>
> And
> > There is no bug if its not installed.
>
> Which is the case for most programs. We could close almost all our bugs
> on this ground.
But the normal case is that uninstalling a software you also stop getting the
functionality it provides, with pulseaudio you START getting the functionality
it
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 11:20:55PM +0100, Olav Vitters wrote:
> $ journalctl | grep
> $ journalctl | tail -n 500
grep /var/log/syslog
tail -n 500 /var/log/syslog
Hm... Is this really simplier? O, wait. I can easily copy my log to any other
machine to analyze it there with:
scp /var/log/syslog ..
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 08:37:59PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On the other hand, what companies and distributions and companies
> actively support Upstart and OpenRC.
Is this important? Or our way is to make init such a complex, that it
can be supported only by companies? If you w
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 03:47:59PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> systemd is used as the default init system in:
>
> - Fedora
> - Arch Linux
> - Mageia
> - openSUSE
> - SLES (upcoming)
> - RHEL7
> - Frugalware
> - (see Wikipedia)
And what is this prove? That a small part of a distro
❦ 12 février 2014 08:16 CET, Chris Bannister :
>> > Well if a bug can be solved by killing the buggy process and getting
>> > better
>> > functionality than when the process is running is certainly a very very
>> > bad
>> > bug!
>>
>> As mentioned before: File a bug.
>
> There is no bug if
On Wed, 2014-02-12 at 20:16 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 04:18:50PM +0100, Olav Vitters wrote:
> > On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 03:51:33PM +0100, Salvo Tomaselli wrote:
> > > Well if a bug can be solved by killing the buggy process and getting
> > > better
> > > functionalit
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 04:18:50PM +0100, Olav Vitters wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 03:51:33PM +0100, Salvo Tomaselli wrote:
> > Well if a bug can be solved by killing the buggy process and getting better
> > functionality than when the process is running is certainly a very very bad
> > bug!
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 11:26:11PM +0400, Vitaliy Filippov wrote:
> >You can tell it to do that, yes. You can also set it to forward them to
> >rsyslog without storing anything. Or both.
> >
> >Read http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man5/journald.conf.5.html and be
> >enlightened. ;-)
>
> OK, it's g
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 09:30:07PM +0400, Vitaliy Filippov wrote:
> >Here's a challenge then: Implement everything the journal does, without
> >using a binary format, and show us it's not only doable, but performs
> >similarly.
> >
> >I would first recommend you read up - and try! - what the journa
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 09:38:16PM +0400, Vitaliy Filippov wrote:
> >>5) After all, I don't see why writing 1 regexp is a hard task. And
> >>it won't be really slower because of (4).
> >
> >A regexp is unreliable and slow. Lots of ssh blocking tools have had
> >various security issues due to this.
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 10:48:07AM -0600, Matt Zagrabelny wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 10:26 AM, Matthias Urlichs
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > vita...@yourcmc.ru:
> >> Because I want logs to be plaintext in my system, not binary.
> >>
> > Why? (Seriously.)
>
> To use standard text based tools, e
On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 20:37:59 +0100
John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> Arch, openSUSE and Fedora are among the most popular and widely
> used Linux distributions where most of the upstream development
> happens.
>
Show me the numbers, I completely disagree and developers from those
ditributions s
On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 20:39:10 +0100
John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> While they loose the warranty which is my main point.
>
Who needs a warranty when it's so straight forward. These days you have
an engine with a "management system" which you have to fix or convince
the mechanic that the "mana
On 02/11/2014 08:11 PM, Kevin Chadwick wrote:
> I'm under the impression Americans customise almost routinely.
While they loose the warranty which is my main point.
Yes, you can replace your init system with anything you like, but
don't expect everyone else in Debian to actively support you.
Adr
On 02/11/2014 08:11 PM, Kevin Chadwick wrote:
> So some distros with relatively few users out of the huge number that
> exist.
These distros which you attest of having a few users are the major
distributions out there. Novell's SLES runs on most of the top500
super computers while RHEL is largely
You can tell it to do that, yes. You can also set it to forward them to
rsyslog without storing anything. Or both.
Read http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man5/journald.conf.5.html and be
enlightened. ;-)
OK, it's good they've added "none" option at least... It wasn't there in
the initial journa
previously on this list John Paul Adrian Glaubitz contributed:
> systemd is used as the default init system in:
>
> - Fedora
> - Arch Linux
> - Mageia
> - openSUSE
> - SLES (upcoming)
> - RHEL7
> - Frugalware
> - (see Wikipedia)
>
> Plus companies like Intel and BMW are using it in their embedde
previously on this list John Paul Adrian Glaubitz contributed:
> On 02/11/2014 05:20 AM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> >> It's like being able to customize internal parts of your cars engine
> >> when ordering one from your dealer. Customers don't care who the
> >> manufacturer of your ignition system i
previously on this list Svante Signell contributed:
> > What I don't get is why are those people trying to push Debian's
> > decision when they are primarily using a different platform. But I
> > guess it's pure politics and trying to push their own projects.
>
> I'm pretty sure there are _many
On 02/11/2014 04:19 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 02/11/2014 05:27 PM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
>> No, it's absolutely not. You can have the choice for the interior
>> design, the paint job, the radio, the type of engine and comfort
>> features, but you certainly cannot have the choice on
Hi,
Vitaliy Filippov:
> >Guess what journald is doing ;-) And if the journal is not running in
> >persistent mode, this extra logfile only exists temporarily and
> >everything is forwarded to rsyslog, so you gat your syslog-textfile
> >(but with much more structured content)
>
> What it's doing?
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On 02/11/2014 06:04 PM, The Wanderer wrote:
> Also because when writing a parser, it's easier to determine the
> format (in terms of meaning and start/stop of each field) of a text
> file than it is of a binary one, when working without
> known-relia
On 02/11/2014 06:47 PM, Vitaliy Filippov wrote:
> And to use standard text processing tools, parsers and have a simple way
> of archiving logs, yeah.
It's not simple if you have to write a script for every single service
whose log messages you want to parse.
The journal already gives you an out-o
On 02/11/2014 06:30 PM, Vitaliy Filippov wrote:
> I understand there's more functionality than you can build up only using
> regexes. The point is - I don't understand why an INIT SYSTEM (!)
> should depend on these, generally non-trivial, features.
Because the tasks of init and syslog are ver
The Wanderer writes:
> Also because when writing a parser, it's easier to determine the format
> (in terms of meaning and start/stop of each field) of a text file than
> it is of a binary one, when working without known-reliable
> documentation. (And I'm not willing to assume that I'll always hav
Because I want logs to be plaintext in my system, not binary.
Why? (Seriously.)
Because I count the wide use of transparent plaintext formats everywhere -
in logs, configs and shell commands is one of the biggest advantages of
Linux/Unix systems.
And to use standard text processing tools
"Vitaliy Filippov" writes:
>> Here's a challenge then: Implement everything the journal does, without
>> using a binary format, and show us it's not only doable, but performs
>> similarly.
>>
>> I would first recommend you read up - and try! - what the journal has to
>> offer. It's not as simple
The Wanderer writes:
> In my case: because I want to be able to read them conveniently at a
> glance, without requiring the presence of a functioning specialized tool
> for doing so. As the UNIX Philosophy puts it, "text streams ... [are] a
> universal interface".
All the folks who are upset abo
5) After all, I don't see why writing 1 regexp is a hard task. And
it won't be really slower because of (4).
A regexp is unreliable and slow. Lots of ssh blocking tools have had
various security issues due to this.
That only depends on whether you know the format of that what you parse.
Bina
Guess what journald is doing ;-) And if the journal is not running in
persistent mode, this extra logfile only exists temporarily and
everything is forwarded to rsyslog, so you gat your syslog-textfile
(but with much more structured content)
What it's doing? Isn't it storing the log files themse
Here's a challenge then: Implement everything the journal does, without
using a binary format, and show us it's not only doable, but performs
similarly.
I would first recommend you read up - and try! - what the journal has to
offer. It's not as simple as you make it out to be.
Given that Debian
> On Feb 11, 2014, at 5:02 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>
>> On 02/11/2014 08:13 PM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
>> Yes, but we are not talking about hypothetical things. I am also not
>> planning my life for the case that I am winning the lottery tomorrow.
>
> Chances to win the lottery are
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 10:26 AM, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> Hi,
>
> vita...@yourcmc.ru:
>> Because I want logs to be plaintext in my system, not binary.
>>
> Why? (Seriously.)
To use standard text based tools, eg. grep.
-mz
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wit
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On 02/11/2014 11:26 AM, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> Hi,
>
> vita...@yourcmc.ru:
>
>> Because I want logs to be plaintext in my system, not binary.
>
> Why? (Seriously.)
In my case: because I want to be able to read them conveniently at a
glance, w
On 02/11/2014 17:03, vita...@yourcmc.ru wrote:
>> Try to find an efficient way to show the output of a particular daemon.
>> Now of a cgroup. Now anything of a user. It's not about capturing, it is
>> about doing something useful with it. You want to capture various
>> properties with each message.
vita...@yourcmc.ru writes:
>> It is of course well-known that systemd developers like to make their
>> life more complicated and love to implement binary formats instead of
>> writing simple text parsers, just for the sake of having fun
>> programming
>> them, and absolutely not because they need
Hi,
vita...@yourcmc.ru:
> Because I want logs to be plaintext in my system, not binary.
>
Why? (Seriously.)
--
-- Matthias Urlichs
signature.asc
Description: Digital signature
2014-02-11 17:03 GMT+01:00 :
>[...]
> And if I _really_ needed a binary index, I would put it in a separate file.
Guess what journald is doing ;-) And if the journal is not running in
persistent mode, this extra logfile only exists temporarily and
everything is forwarded to rsyslog, so you gat you
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 07:57:18PM +0400, vita...@yourcmc.ru wrote:
> 2) Binary index isn't needed at all if you just want to print output
> of a service - you can just put output of each unit to its own log
> file and just tail it.
Now show everything of a particular user. Systemd allows you to d
Excerpts from Josselin Mouette's message of 2014-02-11 07:00:43 -0800:
> Le mardi 11 février 2014 à 18:30 +0400, vita...@yourcmc.ru a écrit :
> > And I don't see why a binary log format is needed to implement the
> > stderr capture.
>
> It is of course well-known that systemd developers like to
Because I want logs to be plaintext in my system, not binary.
Install syslog. Or maybe Debian will use both journal and syslog.
I dislike the idea of binary logs so much that I want to really and
totally disable journal.
And I don't see why a binary log format is needed to implement the
st
On 02/11/2014 07:23 PM, Olav Vitters wrote:
> IMO (and I'm an interested part / GNOME dude, so no say): blocking
> progress is bad. So if someone wants to add OpenRC scripts to packages
> and maintenance is low: as packager you should be allowing that to
> happen. As long as the time required on pa
It is of course well-known that systemd developers like to make their
life more complicated and love to implement binary formats instead of
writing simple text parsers, just for the sake of having fun
programming
them, and absolutely not because they need things like indexing.
The same goes for
On 02/11/2014 04:31 PM, Clint Byrum wrote:
> One point of moving to a system like upstart or systemd is that the
> sysvinit scripts do not run as scripts. They are little tiny declarative
> files that run all or most in C. This speeds up boot, but only makes
> sense if all of the early stage boot t
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 03:51:33PM +0100, Salvo Tomaselli wrote:
> Well if a bug can be solved by killing the buggy process and getting better
> functionality than when the process is running is certainly a very very bad
> bug!
As mentioned before: File a bug.
--
Regards,
Olav
--
To UNSUBSC
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 06:30:24PM +0400, vita...@yourcmc.ru wrote:
> Because I want logs to be plaintext in my system, not binary.
Install syslog. Or maybe Debian will use both journal and syslog.
> And I don't see why a binary log format is needed to implement the
> stderr capture.
Try to find
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 09:05:48AM -0500, The Wanderer wrote:
> I think this touches on - or possibly misses - a key point.
I don't think so.
> I do not trust the systemd project to not do things I consider bad or
> even insane, because they've already done such things, and they show no
> regret
On Tue, 2014-02-11 at 15:47 +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> What I don't get is why are those people trying to push Debian's
> decision when they are primarily using a different platform. But I
> guess it's pure politics and trying to push their own projects.
I'm pretty sure there are _
> On Feb 11, 2014, at 3:06 PM, Oleg wrote:
>
> What? I see many people who don't like systemd and won't use it. I don't
> see that systemd is the choice of the _majority_. But i see that systemd
> funs simply shout louder than others.
systemd is used as the default init system in:
- Fedora
-
Le mardi 11 février 2014 à 18:30 +0400, vita...@yourcmc.ru a écrit :
> And I don't see why a binary log format is needed to implement the
> stderr capture.
It is of course well-known that systemd developers like to make their
life more complicated and love to implement binary formats instead of
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 06:06:39PM +0400, Oleg wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 10:27:04AM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> > It's not *my* choice, systemd is the choice of the majority of the
> > Linux community. OpenRC and upstart are used in Gentoo and Ubuntu
>
> What? I see many peo
Well if a bug can be solved by killing the buggy process and getting better
functionality than when the process is running is certainly a very very bad
bug!
> Don't be daft. My audio works perfectly. So does lots of other people's.
>
> If yours doesn't, file a bug.
--
Salvo Tomaselli
"Io n
Because it's work, for no apparent gain. I mean, the systemd people
didn't
just code up all that journal stuff for no good reason, but because
they
perceived a need to have it. And let's face it, the ability to just see
the
stderr output from $FAILED_JOB with "systemctl status" is a whole damn
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 10:27:04AM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> It's not *my* choice, systemd is the choice of the majority of the
> Linux community. OpenRC and upstart are used in Gentoo and Ubuntu
What? I see many people who don't like systemd and won't use it. I don't
see that sy
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On 02/11/2014 04:21 AM, Olav Vitters wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 12:51:13PM +0400, Vitaliy Filippov wrote:
>> This can also reduce the risk of "vendor-lock", because the speed
>> Lennart adds features to systemd is so fast that I won't be real
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