Hi all. I'm struggling to see the point of this (from Pragmatic's
Programming Clojure):
Java => rnd.nextInt()
Clojure => (. rnd nextInt)
sugared => (.nextInt rnd)
What's the point of the sugared version? It's not any less to type.
It's also incomprehensible to me how it came about. In the midd
>
> > What's the point of the sugared version? It's not any less to type.
>
> Actually there's one fewer character -- a space.
>
Okay, I'll give you that.
> > It's also incomprehensible to me how it came about. In the middle one
> > it's simple, class and method, but the in sugared one it's just
Hi again. This is another syntax that I'm struggling with:
(function [args] more args)
Or for example:
(subvec [1 2 3 4 5] 1 3)
Please note I'm not referring specifically to the subvec function, but
simply using it as an example, as I've seen this syntax with many
other functions, but it escap
Hi, I admit that subvec is not a good example as it does indeed take a
vector as a first argument, perhaps i'll find better example or
perhaps I might've just been confused. I learnt lisp and scheme many
years ago, abandoned them for languages with better libraries, and I'm
perhaps thrown off by th
Hello all.
I'm currently using Netbeans' clojure IDE and I quite like it. It has
a REPL. It highlights syntax and matches parentheses. It supports
maven and mercurial/git. It provides completion and doc for both
clojure and java. It has allows evaluation of forms from source code
to repl. It also
On Jun 18, 4:08 pm, Stefan Kamphausen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> these modern IDEs really do a tremendous job at organizing projects and
> providing additional information at programming time. It's just, their
> text-editor components suck.
>
> If you are a Java developer, it's probably better to stay awa
Hi all,
Clojure seems to be a language in a bit of flux (eg, defstruct vs
defrecord), is there a canonical set of docs that keeps all of this up-
to-date? are the docs on clojure.org always kept up to date? is there
a place to track succinct notes on language evolution, conventions and
community b
On Jun 21, 6:54 pm, miner wrote:
> Here's some more support for the hammock:
>
> http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2011/06/20/137300311/why-hammocks-mak...
>
If this is going to be anything like those ambient orbs, then I better
hurry up and invest in hammocks.
--
You received this message bec
Hi all. I've been looking at Clojure for the past month, having had a
previous look at it a couple of years ago and then moved on to other
things only to return to it now.
Over the past decade I have looked at many languages and many ways of
doing things. People may say this language or that lang
On Jul 1, 10:50 pm, Gregg Reynolds wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 2:59 PM, James Keats wrote:
>
> > ...
>
> > Whereas when Steve Yegge writes:
>
> Who?
Indeed. I'm not wishing this to be a personal attack on Steve Yegge,
but a fair and justified re-examina
want something
> more powerful, and show them what is truly possible.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Aaron Bedra
> --
> Clojure/corehttp://clojure.com
>
> On 07/01/2011 03:59 PM, James Keats wrote:
>
To be absolutely clear, I am not against Steve Yegge as a person. The
title of my
On Jul 2, 3:54 pm, David Nolen wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 4:05 AM, faenvie wrote:
> > I agree, that clojure will not gain java-like popularity in
> > a forseeable future.
>
> > IMO clojure is much more a Language for SystemProgrammers
> > (high demands, thinking in concurrency) than a Lang
On Jul 2, 6:39 pm, David Nolen wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 12:23 PM, James Keats wrote:
>
> > I therefore see it most suited, as I said, for the advanced
> > independent programmer, or at most a small team of advanced enough
> > programmers.
>
> I think Clojure
On Jul 2, 6:41 pm, Stefan Kamphausen wrote:
> FWIW,
>
> However, as Aaron pointed out, I'd rather a more tolerant, pleasant
> community.
>
> Kind regards,
A month ago I asked a question here that barely a minute after
clicking "send" realized was utterly dumb. It reminds of an anecdote
about an
On Jul 2, 8:33 pm, David Nolen wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 3:21 PM, James Keats wrote:
> > And once you encounter the
> > reality and frustration infamously characterized by likening the
> > managing of lispers to the herding of cats then you begin to admire
> >
On Jul 2, 8:33 pm, Mark Engelberg wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 12:21 PM, James Keats wrote:
> > A very recent quote by Abelson is relevant:
> > "One of the things I’m learning here (Google) is the experience of
> > working on these enormous programs. I just never e
On Jul 3, 2:26 am, Mark Engelberg wrote:
> Ideally, I was hoping to start a more in-depth discussion about the
> pros and cons of "programming in the large" in Clojure than just
> waxing poetic about Clojure/Lisp's capabilities in the abstract :)
I am yet to do a large program in clojure, I st
On Jul 3, 5:21 pm, Christian Schuhegger
wrote:
> Nevertheless for large connected data graphs I think something like a
> data-schema is needed. Clojure would still follow its approach to only
> deal with maps, but there is a descriptive meta-data level in addition
> that explains the connection
On Jul 3, 9:02 pm, Sean Corfield wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 3:14 AM, James Keats wrote:
>
> Perhaps we move in different circles but I've seen as much "bad Java"
> in the large as I ever used to see "bad FORTRAN" and "bad C / C++"
> co
On Jul 4, 5:45 am, Christian Schuhegger
wrote:
> Thanks for your feed-back. I already have RDF/OWL in my tool-kit. I am
> only not sure if an ERP like system should be modeled along those
> lines. But I did not put enough thought in that direction yet. Would
> you base an ERP like system on top
On Jul 4, 1:26 pm, James Keats wrote:
> On Jul 4, 5:45 am, Christian Schuhegger
> A good
> book to get you started would SEMANTIC WEB for the WORKING ONTOLOGIST,
> of which a second edition has recently come out. :-)
Sorry about the unintentional "to get you started" fi
On Jul 3, 6:15 am, Ken Wesson wrote:
>
> There's one obvious use case for such a wrapper function, though: if
> you'll want to pass the Java method to HOFs from time to time. You
> can't directly pass a Java method to a HOF, but you can pass such a
> wrapper function.
>
Pardon me if I'm wrong,
On Jul 5, 11:07 pm, faenvie wrote:
> note on the original posting:
>
> > First, he shouldn't be porting Java code to clojure, Second, Clojure IS
> > fundamentally different from Java, and third, such said users who
> > don't want to touch Java should not touch Clojure.
>
> to port java-code to c
On Jul 5, 7:30 pm, Sean Corfield wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 8:04 PM, Sean Corfield wrote:
> > On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 3:34 PM, James Keats wrote:
> >> For example I suggest you look at this video/transcript and pay
> >> attention in particular to the point of d
On Jul 7, 6:42 am, nchubrich wrote:
> I'll try :) It was really a polemical post for a polemical thread,
> but my main points can be extracted here. Feel free to read as many
> or as few of them as you are inclined
nchubrich, I've read your original post in its entirely, so forgive me
for not
On Jul 7, 8:09 am, nchubrich wrote
>
> (As for Steve Yeggeis he reading all this?if he's totally
> wrong, then of course people should feel free to disagree with him,
> and forget about the consequences. But if he happens to be \right,
> and I do think he mostly is, then making basicall
On Jul 7, 8:03 pm, logan wrote:
>
> This poisonous attitude is perfectly exemplified in this thread by
> James Keats.
I completely disagree with your mis-characterization and invite you to
read again what I had maintained:
- I had implored that technical arguments alone shou
On Jul 7, 8:35 pm, nchubrich wrote
> > someone whose name I can't remember right now
> > once said, "There are no bad students, only bad teachers."
There are three good books already and more on the way (I look forward
to Clojure in Action later this month), there are excellent videos on
bli
On Jul 8, 6:19 am, Ken Wesson wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 1:07 AM, Lee Spector wrote:
>
> > On Jul 7, 2011, at 7:29 PM, Sean Corfield wrote:
> >> And yet the #1 "FAQ" we see on lists and reflected in blog posts is
> >> about getting Clojure up and running... We see Java developers,
> >> com
On Jul 8, 4:30 pm, Lee Spector wrote:
> On Jul 8, 2011, at 10:29 AM, James Keats wrote:
>
> > May I also add the following caveat emptors:
> > - If you're new to programming, clojure will overwhelm you. Start with
> > something like python.
>
> I disagree. Thi
On Jul 8, 7:14 pm, nchubrich wrote:
> > I disagree. This is a subject of religious debates that I don't want to get
> > into in detail, but FWIW this educator thinks that Lisp > is a perfectly
> > defensible first language and that Clojure can serve the purpose quite well
> > as long as insta
On Jul 8, 8:02 pm, Lee Spector wrote:
>
> I'm with you 95% here, but I do think that this much editor "fanciness" is
> needed to have a sane environment for coding lisp for anything more than a
> few minutes: bracket-matching and language-aware auto-re-indenting. If
> there's a straightforwar
On Jun 16, 3:08 pm, Colin Yates wrote:
> (newbie warning)
>
> Our current solution is an OO implementation in Groovy and Java. We
> have a (mutable) Project which has a DAG (directed acyclic graph).
> This is stored as a set of nodes and edges. There are multiple
> implementations of nodes (wh
On Jul 8, 8:57 pm, James Keats wrote:
> On Jun 16, 3:08 pm, Colin Yates wrote:
> > (newbie warning)
>
> > Our current solution is an OO implementation in Groovy and Java. We
> > have a (mutable) Project which has a DAG (directed acyclic graph).
> > This is stor
t elegant
> solution with new tools.
>
> I probably ate something that disagreed with me, but I just want to break
> free from the shackles of these heavy-weight tools and fly! OK - that's
> enough.
>
> Or, it might all be a catastrophic failure and I will be signing up
I'm mildly concerned about macros being seen as the "secret weapon" of
clojure(/lisp).
In their place, i wish monads would get a wider attention and embrace.
Discuss? :-)
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On Jul 12, 2:36 pm, Tamreen Khan wrote:
> Are monads all that special? My understanding is that even in Haskell
> its wise to not use monads all that much, since it starts to make the
> code look a little too imperative if not wielded correctly. They're
> not really the meat of haskell/fp. Macro
Alright, to be honest, I'm disappointed.
First of all, congrats and good job to all involved in putting it out.
On the plus side, it's a good way to use the Google Closure javascript
platform.
On the minus, imho, that's what's wrong with it.
Google Closure is too Java. It's not idiomatic JavaSc
Steve Yegge's Universal Design Pattern and prototype
pattern a la Javascript could be married to clojure's in the chapter
that discuss namespaces, multimethods, protocols and datatypes, and
then turn around and implicitly declare to the world with the release
of clojurescript "oh noes!
On Jul 24, 6:03 pm, David Nolen wrote:
> As a professional JavaScripter for the past 6 years who has built his own
> frameworks and written considerable amounts of Prototype, MooTools, and
> jQuery.
>
> I don't think jQuery is special or particularly interesting and most of the
> libraries aroun
On Jul 24, 7:05 pm, David Nolen wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 1:46 PM, James Keats wrote:
>
> > The Javascript notaries have advocated using a small functional subset
> > of javascript, rather than the full gamut of javscript's quirks, and I
> > was saddened w
On Jul 24, 7:24 pm, Michael Gardner wrote:
> On Jul 24, 2011, at 1:11 PM, James Keats wrote:
>
> >> Restricting yourself to a functional subset of JavaScript can't fix
> >> JavaScript. The functional subset stinks, Javascript notaries be damned.
>
> > If s
I find regrettable.
On Jul 24, 10:28 pm, Rich Hickey wrote:
> On Jul 24, 11:19 am, James Keats wrote:
>
> > Alright, to be honest, I'm disappointed.
>
> I'll make sure you get a refund then.
>
> Seriously, this is like being disappointed an action movie was an
On Jul 24, 10:23 pm, Base wrote:
> "Why should we care what kind of Javascript ClojureScript generates,
> as long as it's correct and performant? The whole point of the project
> is to allow us to write Clojure rather than Javascript!"
>
> James, you do get this point, right? Just like GWT allo
x27;m making an attempt at humor in the
technical arguments I'm making.
On Jul 24, 10:28 pm, Rich Hickey wrote:
> On Jul 24, 11:19 am, James Keats wrote:
>
> > Alright, to be honest, I'm disappointed.
>
> I'll make sure you get a refund then.
>
> Seriously,
Perhaps I should've just looked for a blog about knitting or cupcakes
and posted what I did here about clojure/clojurescript in it. That way
you fine folks won't get to read it, eventhough no one here is obliged
in any way to read my posts or any in this thread. Yeah, definitely,
that way I might'
On Jul 26, 1:53 am, Christian Marks <9fv...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 25, 6:11 pm, James Keats wrote:> I ask, what
> is it that I did other than "seriously inquire about the
> > rationale"?!
>
> You started a thread with the non-serious title, &q
On Jul 26, 2:01 pm, semperos wrote:
> Based on the majority of posts in this thread, I think you can see you're in
> the minority, both with regards to your opinions of ClojureScript and with
> regards to how this community should behave. Here's one more person who
> doesn't appreciate the attit
On Jul 26, 3:08 pm, Timothy Baldridge wrote:
Hi Timothy, and thanks for your much-better-than-others' reply.
> > Oh I will be washing my hands and be gone for sure, as coding and
> > making things better is precisely what I offered in my OP, which was
> > taken as a "threat" and I was told to
As an outcome of this thread, I have decided not to invest in clojure,
so I believe the following to be purely feedback, as I have no agenda
to push.
- it seems from some's point of view that I was "trolling". Fine, from
my point of view though it was akin to "drink the kool aid or gtfo".
Sorry,
As an outcome of this thread, I have decided not to invest in clojure,
so I believe the following to be purely feedback, as I have no agenda
to push.
- it seems from some's point of view that I was "trolling". Fine, from
my point of view though it was akin to "drink the kool aid or gtfo".
Sorry,
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