On Jul 8, 4:30 pm, Lee Spector <lspec...@hampshire.edu> wrote: > On Jul 8, 2011, at 10:29 AM, James Keats wrote: > > > May I also add the following caveat emptors: > > - If you're new to programming, clojure will overwhelm you. Start with > > something like python. > > I disagree. This is a subject of religious debates that I don't want to get > into in detail, but FWIW this educator thinks that Lisp is a perfectly > defensible first language and that Clojure can serve the purpose quite well > as long as installation and tooling doesn't make it unnecessarily difficult > to write and run code. > > > - If you come from python/ruby and have no java background, do not > > expect to start "hacking" clojure in the morning and be "productive" > > and accomplishing work in the afternoon of that same day; go learn > > java for a while first (a few months at least). Also, continue using > > whatever it is you use now till you're confident you know enough to > > jump ship. > > - we can't teach you java, please go learn java for a while if you > > have no java experience, there are tons and tons of tutorials and > > books on teaching you java. > > Disagree and disagree. One can do a lot in Clojure with almost no knowledge > of the Java language or the Java ecosystem. At least for the kinds of things > that I do. Yes, I occasionally need to use an interop form for something for > which there's no Clojure version, but for me that's rare and easy to pick up > on a case by case basis without being a Java programmer. > > > - if all you need is a "hello world" program, there are simpler > > languages for this purpose (python etc). Consider clojure if you have > > need for java apis or concurrency needs (concurrency is an advanced, > > low level topic and not something most programmers should concern > > themselves with). > > Disagree. Nobody *just* wants to write "hello world," of course, but Clojure > can be a great language for many people who have zero need for Java APIs or > concurrency. I use/teach it because of all of the great features of Lisps > more generally, and because Clojure is the best Lisp going (IMHO). > > > - and so on... I think it's important to have such caveat emptors, it > > seems many of the complaints relate to expectations mismatched to > > reality > > Maybe, but since I disagree with every one of your caveats I wouldn't > advocate making them :-0. > > -Lee
Teaching is a strictly controlled and supervised environment. I wouldn't mind teaching a lisp curriculum based on clojure that wouldn't veer from the set path, and which test of learning are a set of specific and circumscribed exercises. For people who come to learn clojure though from the internet, they tend to be people who self- teach, and who'll actually want to use it to do actual work. I am skeptical about its ease for those. Either that, or all those experienced programmers who still struggle with it despite their long experience (I included) are just a bunch of pansies. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
